10:35 p.m.
Hello people,
In the last meeting[1
<https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-10-16/commops.201...>]
we discussed about the ticket #103
<https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/103> " Improving Fedora
Elections Process: Improving Voter Participation" [2
<https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/103>]
We are looking feedback and voting the ideas listed below:
* *Voting badge:* Not only improve voter participation also helps with
metrics about elections.
* *Nominee "**Ask Me Anything!**" (AMA)*: Basically is a questions and
answers session over social networks (like reddit and other platforms).
Please refer to the ticket [2
<https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/103>] for more information and
don't forget vote :)
Best regards
[1]
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2017-10-16/commops.201...
[2] https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/103
12:40 a.m.
On 10/18/2017 11:35 PM, Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez wrote:
We are looking feedback and voting the ideas listed below:
* *Voting badge:* Not only improve voter participation also helps with
metrics about elections.
* *Nominee "**Ask Me Anything!**" (AMA)*: Basically is a questions and
answers session over social networks (like reddit and other platforms).
Please refer to the ticket [2
<https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/103>] for more information and
don't forget vote :)
Thanks for your patience on a reply and thanks for starting this thread,
Alberto! I'm also CCing Jan to this thread as the election wrangler (not
sure if he is subscribed to the list or not).
## Voting badge
I love the idea of a voting badge, especially if we take the Nuancier
approach. For anyone reading, Nuancier is the tool used for the
supplementary wallpapers every release. Nuancier waits until a user
submits votes on wallpapers, and then gives them a claim URL for the
badge. This approach would work well for elections too since it doesn't
connect a FAS account to voting preference or any public data.
The next question I ask is whether this should be a new badge for every
round of elections or just one universal badge for all elections. I
prefer a new badge for every election, but ensuring there is a process
to update the election app for this every election is important.
## Nominee AMAs
Since members of the Fedora community have moderator privileges Reddit's
/r/Fedora, I like the idea of running this. Jan needs to confirm if this
is possible for this round or not.
I think this change needs more time to communicate and a date should
have been set before the first election announcement. I prefer waiting
for F29 to try this, but it doesn't mean we can't get a system in place now.
Thoughts?
--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com
3:19 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 7:40 AM, Justin W. Flory <jflory7(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/18/2017 11:35 PM, Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez wrote:
> We are looking feedback and voting the ideas listed below:
>
> * *Voting badge:* Not only improve voter participation also helps with
> metrics about elections.
> * *Nominee "**Ask Me Anything!**" (AMA)*: Basically is a questions and
> answers session over social networks (like reddit and other platforms).
>
> Please refer to the ticket [2
> <https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/103>] for more information and
> don't forget vote :)
>
Thanks for your patience on a reply and thanks for starting this thread,
Alberto! I'm also CCing Jan to this thread as the election wrangler (not
sure if he is subscribed to the list or not).
## Voting badge
I love the idea of a voting badge, especially if we take the Nuancier
approach. For anyone reading, Nuancier is the tool used for the
supplementary wallpapers every release. Nuancier waits until a user
submits votes on wallpapers, and then gives them a claim URL for the
badge. This approach would work well for elections too since it doesn't
connect a FAS account to voting preference or any public data.
The next question I ask is whether this should be a new badge for every
round of elections or just one universal badge for all elections. I
prefer a new badge for every election, but ensuring there is a process
to update the election app for this every election is important.
I am OK with a dedicated badge for every election cycle. However
,instead of using the Nuancier way of claiming badge I would
personally prefer having a check box in the election app saying
whether a voter would like to receive a badge or not and then get the
badge automatically by the voting app, if a voter requested so. It
will do the same job and it is IMO more simple solution that Nuancier
is using.
## Nominee AMAs
Since members of the Fedora community have moderator privileges Reddit's
/r/Fedora, I like the idea of running this. Jan needs to confirm if this
is possible for this round or not.
I think this change needs more time to communicate and a date should
have been set before the first election announcement. I prefer waiting
for F29 to try this, but it doesn't mean we can't get a system in place now.
I am not using Reddit nor Twitter and I am a poor user of social media
in general. As such it is difficult for me to judge how this will help
with the election awareness. Personally I would prefer discussion with
nominees on the commblog at pages with interviews. It does not mean I
am against the social media use, I just do not know what overhead
(moderation, making sure questions are answered, etc.) it brings and
whether there will be any measurable benefit.
Regards,
Jan
Thoughts?
--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com
--
Jan Kuřík
Platform & Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic
12:08 p.m.
Hi Jan!
On 10/24/2017 04:19 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
I am OK with a dedicated badge for every election cycle. However
,instead of using the Nuancier way of claiming badge I would
personally prefer having a check box in the election app saying
whether a voter would like to receive a badge or not and then get the
badge automatically by the voting app, if a voter requested so. It
will do the same job and it is IMO more simple solution that Nuancier
is using.
I agree, but I wonder how to implement this. We could get a FAS account
since the voter has to sign in. But I'm not sure if you could trigger
awarding a badge without emitting a fedmsg event from the Elections app
after someone voted (possibly compromising anonymity).
It's worth keeping this idea on the table, though. Could you file a new
RFE on the Elections app for this to be discussed (whenever someone does
have an Elections app hackfest)?
https://pagure.io/elections
I am not using Reddit nor Twitter and I am a poor user of social
media
in general. As such it is difficult for me to judge how this will help
with the election awareness. Personally I would prefer discussion with
nominees on the commblog at pages with interviews. It does not mean I
am against the social media use, I just do not know what overhead
(moderation, making sure questions are answered, etc.) it brings and
whether there will be any measurable benefit.
We could lean on the social media team to help with this too. The one
fragile part is consistency, since anyone helping with this is probably
coordinating it as a volunteer.
After this election cycle, what if we opened a call for feedback on the
election cycle / process? We could ask the wider community then if
something like an AMA or Twitter "Q&A hour" is something people want.
Since we won't do it this election, we could spend more time doing
research first.
--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com
12:26 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 05:08:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
I agree, but I wonder how to implement this. We could get a FAS
account
since the voter has to sign in. But I'm not sure if you could trigger
awarding a badge without emitting a fedmsg event from the Elections app
after someone voted (possibly compromising anonymity).
There's got to be some level of trust here. The people who could use
this information (correlating timing of votes or something) are the
same people who could compromise anonymity of voters through a much
simpler means.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
12:33 p.m.
On 10/24/2017 01:26 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 05:08:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
> I agree, but I wonder how to implement this. We could get a FAS account
> since the voter has to sign in. But I'm not sure if you could trigger
> awarding a badge without emitting a fedmsg event from the Elections app
> after someone voted (possibly compromising anonymity).
There's got to be some level of trust here. The people who could use
this information (correlating timing of votes or something) are the
same people who could compromise anonymity of voters through a much
simpler means.
That's also fair. It's easier to automate the process this way, which
helps ensure consistency. This feedback should make it into the RFE
ticket for the Elections app.
I'm somewhat skeptical to spend too much time talking about new features
for the Elections app since it doesn't have any contributors. The odds
of new features being implemented soon is unlikely. However, this
feedback is helpful to reference in the RFE so whenever development time
is allotted for the app, this won't be lost in a mailing list somewhere
in the Fedora universe.
If someone could file the RFE with extended thoughts, that would be
awesome. If not, I'll try to get around to it when after I finish
traveling this week.
--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com
12:41 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 05:08:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
Hi Jan!
On 10/24/2017 04:19 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
> I am OK with a dedicated badge for every election cycle. However
> ,instead of using the Nuancier way of claiming badge I would
> personally prefer having a check box in the election app saying
> whether a voter would like to receive a badge or not and then get the
> badge automatically by the voting app, if a voter requested so. It
> will do the same job and it is IMO more simple solution that Nuancier
> is using.
>
I agree, but I wonder how to implement this. We could get a FAS account
since the voter has to sign in. But I'm not sure if you could trigger
awarding a badge without emitting a fedmsg event from the Elections app
after someone voted (possibly compromising anonymity).
What about people wanting a badge for a specific election and not for another
one (for whatever reason)?
The nuancier system allows the anonymity that is dear to a number of us while
offering the flexibility of letting the user choose when to get a badge or not.
Note also that on nuancier, you don't actually have to vote to get the badge,
how would it work in this situation?
Pierre
11:30 a.m.
On 10/24/2017 01:41 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 05:08:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
> Hi Jan!
>
> On 10/24/2017 04:19 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
>> I am OK with a dedicated badge for every election cycle. However
>> ,instead of using the Nuancier way of claiming badge I would
>> personally prefer having a check box in the election app saying
>> whether a voter would like to receive a badge or not and then get the
>> badge automatically by the voting app, if a voter requested so. It
>> will do the same job and it is IMO more simple solution that Nuancier
>> is using.
>>
>
> I agree, but I wonder how to implement this. We could get a FAS account
> since the voter has to sign in. But I'm not sure if you could trigger
> awarding a badge without emitting a fedmsg event from the Elections app
> after someone voted (possibly compromising anonymity).
What about people wanting a badge for a specific election and not for another
one (for whatever reason)?
The nuancier system allows the anonymity that is dear to a number of us while
offering the flexibility of letting the user choose when to get a badge or not.
Note also that on nuancier, you don't actually have to vote to get the badge,
how would it work in this situation?
I think it would be an easier workload for the Design Team to create one
badge per overall election. I also feel like three badges for three
elections is a lot anyways, since it's a low-effort type of task.
It would be nice if the Elections app awarded a badge to the logged-in
user, so we don't have to give the claim URL to the user. But if we had
to do it that way, like with Nuancier, I think it would be okay.
Sachin also volunteered to spend some time working on the Elections app
to try and implement some of this, so he can probably comment further
with his thoughts too.
--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com
11:48 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 04:30:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
On 10/24/2017 01:41 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 05:08:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
>> Hi Jan!
>>
>> On 10/24/2017 04:19 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
>>> I am OK with a dedicated badge for every election cycle. However
>>> ,instead of using the Nuancier way of claiming badge I would
>>> personally prefer having a check box in the election app saying
>>> whether a voter would like to receive a badge or not and then get the
>>> badge automatically by the voting app, if a voter requested so. It
>>> will do the same job and it is IMO more simple solution that Nuancier
>>> is using.
>>>
>>
>> I agree, but I wonder how to implement this. We could get a FAS account
>> since the voter has to sign in. But I'm not sure if you could trigger
>> awarding a badge without emitting a fedmsg event from the Elections app
>> after someone voted (possibly compromising anonymity).
>
> What about people wanting a badge for a specific election and not for another
> one (for whatever reason)?
>
> The nuancier system allows the anonymity that is dear to a number of us while
> offering the flexibility of letting the user choose when to get a badge or not.
>
> Note also that on nuancier, you don't actually have to vote to get the badge,
> how would it work in this situation?
>
I think it would be an easier workload for the Design Team to create one
badge per overall election. I also feel like three badges for three
elections is a lot anyways, since it's a low-effort type of task.
Where do you see three badges per election?
It would be nice if the Elections app awarded a badge to the
logged-in
user, so we don't have to give the claim URL to the user. But if we had
to do it that way, like with Nuancier, I think it would be okay.
Badges are awarded via fedmsg or manual triggers and we don't want to send these
info via fedmsg, this is why nuancier implemented it this way.
Pierre
12:34 p.m.
On 10/30/2017 12:48 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 04:30:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
> I think it would be an easier workload for the Design Team to create one
> badge per overall election. I also feel like three badges for three
> elections is a lot anyways, since it's a low-effort type of task.
Where do you see three badges per election?
Maybe I misread your comment. I thought you meant if we wanted three
badges per election type (e.g. one each for FAmSCo, FESCo, Council). I
don't think this would be feasible and would put a lot of work on the
Design Team. I would prefer there to be a single badge for all election
types. So even if you vote in two elections, you would receive the same
badge.
> It would be nice if the Elections app awarded a badge to the
logged-in
> user, so we don't have to give the claim URL to the user. But if we had
> to do it that way, like with Nuancier, I think it would be okay.
Badges are awarded via fedmsg or manual triggers and we don't want to send these
info via fedmsg, this is why nuancier implemented it this way.
I was going off of a previous comment where someone suggested an opt-in
checkbox to receive the badge after voting. This would allow someone to
choose to receive the badge by using their logged-in account to receive
the badge.
--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com
1:48 p.m.
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 05:34:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
On 10/30/2017 12:48 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 04:30:00PM +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
>> I think it would be an easier workload for the Design Team to create one
>> badge per overall election. I also feel like three badges for three
>> elections is a lot anyways, since it's a low-effort type of task.
>
> Where do you see three badges per election?
>
Maybe I misread your comment. I thought you meant if we wanted three
badges per election type (e.g. one each for FAmSCo, FESCo, Council). I
don't think this would be feasible and would put a lot of work on the
Design Team. I would prefer there to be a single badge for all election
types. So even if you vote in two elections, you would receive the same
badge.
Well, that would be up to the person setting up the election. All election would
require is a link to where someone can claim the badge. Whether this link is
used for all elections, a single type of election (FESCo vs Council vs...) or a
single election (FESCo 2017 vs FESCo 2018...) would be a separate concern from
elections' point of view (though a valid one overall)
>> It would be nice if the Elections app awarded a badge to the
logged-in
>> user, so we don't have to give the claim URL to the user. But if we had
>> to do it that way, like with Nuancier, I think it would be okay.
>
> Badges are awarded via fedmsg or manual triggers and we don't want to send
these
> info via fedmsg, this is why nuancier implemented it this way.
>
I was going off of a previous comment where someone suggested an opt-in
checkbox to receive the badge after voting. This would allow someone to
choose to receive the badge by using their logged-in account to receive
the badge.
Even with the box idea, badges are awarded by fedmsg and people do not want
fedmsg to sent information about votes.
The other methods to award a badge are:
- manual award from a badge admin
- accessing a specific url during a defined time-frame (what we use for
nuancier and for the conferences where we do badges such as flock or fosdem)
Pierre
2363
days inactive
2374
days old
commops@lists.fedoraproject.org
10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez -
Jan Kurik -
Justin W. Flory -
Matthew Miller -
Pierre-Yves Chibon