> I'd need review the video, but I believe it was mentioned as a channel, not as a community ... it is too diffuse to characterize in my opinion.
> I feel like you've listed technologies or channels, but not necessarily communities.

Communities are built around networks/channels. Random Johnny won't go into random network just because they want A commnunity. They are going to choose the network they already use, or one that their friends use - formation of a community with specific type of users (the ones that prefer the network in question)

User community is built around technology, so it can be considered equal in my opinion. Fedora user community could be a large tree, and different technologies different branches of it. These usually don't touch each other...

Long story (skip if you don't care)
I've never seen a single community actively use more than one technology - all the users being in two places. To add to what i'm mentioning below about games, there are almost never two different communities of the same focus, per network. There is always some difference of interest, for example a game can be multiplatform on PC and Playstation, so there may be two different communities on one technology, or one community can be using two technologies with a bridge in between such as telegram-irc or matrix-irc, but this still doesn't mean that it's one community using two completely separate technologies either because they're bridged into one network. There is a videogameA that has /r/videogameA reddit community. Then the same game has "The VideoGameA Discord Server" and they also have "VideoGameA Telegram Group" - but these are all completely separate communities moderated by separate people with mostly different users (only a few of them frequent more than one of these networks) and even though there are gaming communities that start on reddit and later create some IM chat, have the same people responsible for both, they are two separate communities... One doesn't usually talk about stuff on the other network.

> I don't understand how this relates to the existing channels you mentioned above that you seem to say have users who need to be addressed.

I'm afraid that you lost me... I don't understand what do you mean doesn't relate how to what where when and why? o_O Addressed what/who? o_O

So "users that need to be addressed..." no idea what do you mean - I am not addressing users at all. I want to create good options for users to use...
"existing channels" - it is irrelevant whether it's existing, freshly established, or about to be... All the networks should be promoted and made easily accessible to the user, to be found somewhere, page, tweet, ... Neither Telegram nor Reddit as being the oldest ones, are promoted in any way by Fedoraproject. I've not seen any posts or a links from getfedora

@Josh:
> That concern I have is that by highlighting these communities, we set
> an expectation that the Fedora project actually participates and
> actively uses them for doing Fedora development/work. 

I don't see it as such, I never would... why would anyone expect us to discuss development in a specific network/community when we say "hey there is a group of users chatting, you can join them if you want"

For example every single videogame has a Discord "channel" and even with their developers often being present in it, and often being highlighted there, nobody expects them to participate in the discussion, yet to talk about developmnet. They usually never respond at all and nobody expects them to...


Radka
  
Radka Janeková
.NET & OpenShift Engineer, Red Hat
IRC: radka | Freenode: Rhea


On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Brian Exelbierd <bex@pobox.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 3, 2017, at 03:48 PM, Radka Janekova wrote:
Hi Brian,

> Telegram, even unsupported, should definitely be considered by our Marketing group.  For if we know of an active channel we should be considering its impact.  We may also want to, perhaps for marketing reasons, perhaps for reasons you are outlining, consider adding additional official channels.

That's probably closer to what I mean, Telegram-only should not be mentioned. If we want to talk about user-communities, then lets talk about all of them, lets not just pick one.

I'd need review the video, but I believe it was mentioned as a channel, not as a community ... it is too diffuse to characterize in my opinion.


> I believe you can create a more tailored definition about who you are trying to target and how you plan to help them.  From that we can consider the idea.  Your "regular user" as defined above includes gourmet chefs and rocket scientists.  They have two different sets of needs.  How do you plan to serve them?

Well I'm talking about user communities in general, to give specific examples (!my subjective opinion!)
* Discord - popular gaming text/voice chat, popular in specific ages from teenagers to fresh graduates. Great to catch some students and graduates entering their professional lives as developers (I've recruited even a few Fedora contributors on Discord within it's short lifetime already, with already visible contribution)
* Telegram - a bit wider audience than Discord but not that far off when it comes to age. Definitely less gamers.
* Reddit - likely older users than the above, not just students anymore.
* Matrix (riot.im) - floss enthusiasts who do not like the above options, but prefer good multiplatform solution over raw IRC
* Mattermost (it's like open source slack) - no Idea as we don't have one running - yet (redhatters can join it at chat.openshift.io which should go public soonTM, if I understand it correctly)

I feel like you've listed technologies or channels, but not necessarily communities.  If you think about this like a matrix, turn it sideways.

Can you define who you want to target specifically, then where they are and what you want to do for them?


So to sum it up, most of these have audience of future or early developer at least to some degree, where Telegram would be the most general.

> how does what your proposing go beyond what we do now officially?

The problem is that people don't know that these exist. I'm proposing a bit of official support in the form of more visibility - sub-page linked from getfedora, visibly linked that is... Magazine article that I could write, introducing all the communities (we should also mention forums, askfedora, irc, fedoracommunity.org etc...) and tweet / facebook post about it, etc...

I don't understand how this relates to the existing channels you mentioned above that you seem to say have users who need to be addressed.

regards,

bex



Radka
  


Radka Janeková
.NET & OpenShift Engineer, Red Hat
IRC: radka | Freenode: Rhea


On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Brian Exelbierd <bex@pobox.com> wrote:


On Thu, Jun 29, 2017, at 07:25 PM, Radka Janekova wrote:
I did and the whole time I was thinking "this doesn't belong here" because Telegram has nothing to do with Marketing, and is not officially supported by Fedora. This would be the topic for discussion that I would like to have (have had with Brian a few times) - providing a little bit more help to user-communities.


Telegram, even unsupported, should definitely be considered by our Marketing group.  For if we know of an active channel we should be considering its impact.  We may also want to, perhaps for marketing reasons, perhaps for reasons you are outlining, consider adding additional official channels.


I see regular user as a non-contributor. When talking about user-communities (such as Telegram, reddit, ...) I mean a community that is not oriented to contributing to Fedora and is simply a bunch of Fedora users who frequent this or that network of their choice and would like to chat about their favorite Linux distribution.


Fedora's placement on the adoption curve means that our target market tends to be early adopter-like individuals.  These folks are often in need of support that is more specialized than that needed by a non-contributing average user (even if that user is a skilled engineer).

I believe you can create a more tailored definition about who you are trying to target and how you plan to help them.  From that we can consider the idea.  Your "regular user" as defined above includes gourmet chefs and rocket scientists.  They have two different sets of needs.  How do you plan to serve them?

Following from the last sentence above, if this is just an affinity group of people who want to chat about Linux distributions, even if they specifically want to chat about Fedora, how does what your proposing go beyond what we do now officially?

regards,

bex



Radka
  


Radka Janeková
.NET & OpenShift Engineer, Red Hat
IRC: radka | Freenode: Rhea


On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:47 PM, Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 06:46:49PM +0200, Radka Janekova wrote:
> I would have an important (in my opinion) topic for discussion - I believe
> that Fedora should try to approach the regular user a little bit more, yet
> it doesn't. I'm not sure whether it fits here...

I don't think that's a good subproject report, but it's a fine
discussion to have. We actually talked little about this during the
Marketing presentation last week. Did you see that?

Part of the problem is that "regular user" is a very big term, and can
mean a lot of things to a lot of people.


--
Matthew Miller
Fedora Project Leader
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