Re: Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Josh Berkus]

On 04/28/2016 12:45 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:

> > 2) I like the idea, but an example project might help illustrate
> here.
>  
>  Agreed, though I have some of my own ideas.
>  
> > 3) What are the criteria for "graduating"? Who are the mentors in this
> > example? (Mentors are a key part of the incubator for Apache.)
>  
>  Do projects have to graduate?  I don't want this to be viewed as a
>  competition between initiatives, and promotion/relegaion/graduation
>  seem to set a competitive tone.  As soon as you start talking about
>  graduation or promotion, you start getting into resource allocation
>  issues, etc.
>  
>  I'd personally be fine if a project joined the incubator and stayed
>  there.  If they wanted to somehow because an Objective, we already
>  have paths for that. 
I can think of at least one Atomic effort (the OSTree continuous
integration) which might stay in Incubator permanently.

Given that, are you sure you want to call it "Incubator"?  That name
does imply maturation at some point, even without the Apache precendent.

What about "Fedora Innovator" or "Fedora Labs"?


-- 
Josh Berkus
Project Atomic

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Stephen Gallagher]

On 04/28/2016 05:20 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:
>  On 04/28/2016 12:45 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
>  
> >> 2) I like the idea, but an example project might help illustrate here.
> >
> > Agreed, though I have some of my own ideas.
> >
> >> 3) What are the criteria for "graduating"? Who are the mentors in this
> >> example? (Mentors are a key part of the incubator for Apache.)
> >
> > Do projects have to graduate?  I don't want this to be viewed as a
> > competition between initiatives, and promotion/relegaion/graduation
> > seem to set a competitive tone.  As soon as you start talking about
> > graduation or promotion, you start getting into resource allocation
> > issues, etc.
> >
> > I'd personally be fine if a project joined the incubator and stayed
> > there.  If they wanted to somehow because an Objective, we already
> > have paths for that.
>  
>  I can think of at least one Atomic effort (the OSTree continuous
>  integration) which might stay in Incubator permanently.
>  
>  Given that, are you sure you want to call it "Incubator"?  That name
>  does imply maturation at some point, even without the Apache precendent.
>  
>  What about "Fedora Innovator" or "Fedora Labs"?
>  
>   
Tongue firmly planted in cheek: Fedora Bike Shop?

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 28 April 2016 at 19:36, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  On 04/28/2016 05:20 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > On 04/28/2016 12:45 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
> >
> >>> 2) I like the idea, but an example project might help illustrate here.
> >>
> >> Agreed, though I have some of my own ideas.
> >>
> >>> 3) What are the criteria for "graduating"? Who are the mentors in
> this
> >>> example? (Mentors are a key part of the incubator for Apache.)
> >>
> >> Do projects have to graduate?  I don't want this to be viewed as a
> >> competition between initiatives, and promotion/relegaion/graduation
> >> seem to set a competitive tone.  As soon as you start talking about
> >> graduation or promotion, you start getting into resource allocation
> >> issues, etc.
> >>
> >> I'd personally be fine if a project joined the incubator and stayed
> >> there.  If they wanted to somehow because an Objective, we already
> >> have paths for that.
> >
> > I can think of at least one Atomic effort (the OSTree continuous
> > integration) which might stay in Incubator permanently.
> >
> > Given that, are you sure you want to call it "Incubator"?  That name
> > does imply maturation at some point, even without the Apache precendent.
> >
> > What about "Fedora Innovator" or "Fedora Labs"?
> >
> >
>
>  Tongue firmly planted in cheek: Fedora Bike Shop?
>  
Shed? [Sorry I couldn't resist..]


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Joe Brockmeier]

On 04/28/2016 07:36 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  Tongue firmly planted in cheek: Fedora Bike Shop? 
+1

But what color would the logo be?
-- 
Joe Brockmeier | Community Team, OSAS
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Matthew Miller]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 02:20:19PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
>  I can think of at least one Atomic effort (the OSTree continuous
>  integration) which might stay in Incubator permanently.
>  
>  Given that, are you sure you want to call it "Incubator"?  That name
>  does imply maturation at some point, even without the Apache precendent.
>  
>  What about "Fedora Innovator" or "Fedora Labs"? 
"Labs" would be great, except design/websites already picked that for
https://labs.fedoraproject.org/.

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Josh Boyer]

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 02:20:19PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > I can think of at least one Atomic effort (the OSTree continuous
> > integration) which might stay in Incubator permanently.
> >
> > Given that, are you sure you want to call it "Incubator"?  That name
> > does imply maturation at some point, even without the Apache precendent.
> >
> > What about "Fedora Innovator" or "Fedora Labs"?
>
>  "Labs" would be great, except design/websites already picked that for
>  https://labs.fedoraproject.org/. 
"Commons" or "Collaborative"?

josh

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Justin W. Flory]

On 04/29/2016 12:51 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
>  On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Matthew Miller
>  <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 02:20:19PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
> >> I can think of at least one Atomic effort (the OSTree continuous
> >> integration) which might stay in Incubator permanently.
> >>
> >> Given that, are you sure you want to call it "Incubator"?  That name
> >> does imply maturation at some point, even without the Apache precendent.
> >>
> >> What about "Fedora Innovator" or "Fedora Labs"?
> >
> > "Labs" would be great, except design/websites already picked that for
> > https://labs.fedoraproject.org/.
>
>  "Commons" or "Collaborative"?
>  
Not trying to keep the bikeshedding going further on naming ideas, but 
an alliteration would be cool, e.g. "Fedora F(thing)". Some ideas that 
fit with this:

* Fedora Foundry
* Fedora Factory
* Fedora Forge

Personally, of the three, I think "Forge" sounds the best and it's 
already a commonly used term for the place where software development 
happens. Plus, I can easily see a pretty strong logo idea / general 
theme for something like this. Just my 2¢!

--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Abdel Gadiel Martínez Lassonde]

The ideas sounds great. I like the name Fedora Forge.

--
Abdel G. Martínez L.

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Justin W. Flory <jflory7(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> 
>> On 04/29/2016 12:51 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Matthew Miller
>> <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 02:20:19PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
>>>> I can think of at least one Atomic effort (the OSTree continuous
>>>> integration) which might stay in Incubator permanently.
>>>> 
>>>> Given that, are you sure you want to call it "Incubator"?  That
name
>>>> does imply maturation at some point, even without the Apache precendent.
>>>> 
>>>> What about "Fedora Innovator" or "Fedora Labs"?
>>> 
>>> "Labs" would be great, except design/websites already picked that
for
>>> https://labs.fedoraproject.org/.
>> 
>> "Commons" or "Collaborative"?
> 
> Not trying to keep the bikeshedding going further on naming ideas, but an
alliteration would be cool, e.g. "Fedora F(thing)". Some ideas that fit with
this:
> 
> * Fedora Foundry
> * Fedora Factory
> * Fedora Forge
> 
> Personally, of the three, I think "Forge" sounds the best and it's
already a commonly used term for the place where software development happens. Plus, I can
easily see a pretty strong logo idea / general theme for something like this. Just my 2¢!
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> Justin W. Flory
> jflory7(a)gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and
> open source software and content as a collaborative community.

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Joe Brockmeier]

On 04/29/2016 12:56 PM, Justin W. Flory wrote:
>  
>  Personally, of the three, I think "Forge" sounds the best and it's
>  already a commonly used term for the place where software development
>  happens. Plus, I can easily see a pretty strong logo idea / general
>  theme for something like this. Just my 2¢! 
There's an openSUSE Factory IIRC so .. probably not. And "Forge" has
some connotations probably best avoided. It was all the rage to call
things a this or that forge years ago, and I think SourceForge sort of
soured the term.
-- 
Joe Brockmeier | Community Team, OSAS
jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Christian Schaller]

Did we ever get a more authoritative answer on this thread to 
what the incubator is meant to incubate? I don't think Matthew
ever directly responded to that. Seems people assume its
either for incubating Fedora related technologies, so for instance
the Fedora Media Writer could have been incubated there.
Or is is meant as a place to incubate future Fedora editions? 

I am having trouble inputting on the naming without understanding
where the idea is coming from and what problem it will solve
that we currently have.

Christian



----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Brockmeier" <jzb(a)redhat.com&gt;
> To: council-discuss(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 2:37:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand
> 
> On 04/29/2016 12:56 PM, Justin W. Flory wrote:
> > 
> > Personally, of the three, I think "Forge" sounds the best and
it's
> > already a commonly used term for the place where software development
> > happens. Plus, I can easily see a pretty strong logo idea / general
> > theme for something like this. Just my 2¢!
> 
> There's an openSUSE Factory IIRC so .. probably not. And "Forge" has
> some connotations probably best avoided. It was all the rage to call
> things a this or that forge years ago, and I think SourceForge sort of
> soured the term.
> --
> Joe Brockmeier | Community Team, OSAS
> jzb(a)redhat.com | http://community.redhat.com/
> Twitter: @jzb  | http://dissociatedpress.net/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> council-discuss mailing list
> council-discuss(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]...
> 
> The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and
> open source software and content as a collaborative community.

Creating a "Fedora Incubator" brand

[Matthew Miller]

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 02:45:15PM -0400, Christian Schaller wrote:
>  Did we ever get a more authoritative answer on this thread to 
>  what the incubator is meant to incubate? I don't think Matthew
>  ever directly responded to that. Seems people assume its
>  either for incubating Fedora related technologies, so for instance
>  the Fedora Media Writer could have been incubated there.
>  Or is is meant as a place to incubate future Fedora editions?  
I was not thinking of it as incubating Editions. In fact, potential
future Editions are basically Spins, and almost certainly could be done
through the existing framework.

I was thinking more of things like COPR, which includes code and
binaries which are not "only software provided by the official Fedora
repositories" as described in our trademark guidelines.¹ It's
incredibly valuable for us to provide services like that under the
larger Fedora umbrella, but we don't really have trademark guidelines
to match.

Atomic is another example, or the next new thing to come along like
it². This is much more radical than a Spin, requiring new release
engineering infrastructure and tooling — and ideally, with the option
of at least temporarily branching from software in the main repository.
Currently, we primarily present the options of "do it all outside of
Fedora" or "get everything perfect in release engineering before even
starting", neither of which is good.

Or, consider the efforts to reduce the dependency tree for the Fedora
base. Some of this might involve invasive changes to dependencies in
packages. I guess that could be done as a Remix, but since this work is
actually directly interesting and important to the future of Fedora
itself, it'd be cool to keep it closer to home.

I saw the suggestion somewhere of a Fedora-based userspace
specifically engineered to live *inside* containers, with no worry
about this weird stuff like "booting" and "kernels" and
"hardware".
That too could be a Remix, but why send people that far away?

Do these examples help?


1. See
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#New_combination...
2. Like maybe the first iterations of an ostree-based Fedora
Workstation. Or maybe something even more radical.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader