Re: Updating the Fedora Project Mission

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  The New Mission Draft
>  ---------------------
>
>  So, here it is:
>
>    Fedora creates an innovative platform that lights up hardware,
>    clouds, and containers for software developers and community
>    members to build tailored solutions for their users.
>  
On one hand, I do like the renewed focus on making Fedora a better
platform for people to build their own great solutions. I hope this
means that there will be increased interest in this field (as opposed
to lackluster interest for the last few years...).

However, I'm extremely concerned that Free and Open Source Software
isn't mentioned at all in the mission draft. One of the key things
that makes Fedora attractive (in my view) is its highly principled
stance on providing the best of Free Software, and while we have been
watering that down in recent years (like making it less awful to use
the proprietary nVidia driver on Fedora), we haven't actually gotten
to the point that we're distributing non-free/proprietary software.
I'd like it to stay that way. I also think that being an operating
system is still a very important aspect of Fedora, and many, many,
many people care about this aspect deeply (myself included).

It's quite troubling that the Council seems to think that it's okay to
let go of these very core aspects of us now. While it might be true
that if Fedora was created in 2017, it might not be a full Linux
distribution, that's certainly not what happened, and our community is
shaped by its experiences. Heck, I've been a contributor to Fedora for
nearly a decade, and I've been a user for longer than that. For me
(and many others like myself), the FOSS principles and the operating
system aspect of the project both matter quite heavily.

It's also worth pointing out that if people are seeing it as
uninteresting and boring, then perhaps we just need a better message
around why it's exciting to help develop a fully featured Free
operating system. The new message may even help in that, but we have
to remember that we haven't actually "won" the war for Free and Open
Source software. There are all-new battles to fight and some of the
same old battles are there too.

Please consider integrating these core aspects into a new mission draft.

-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

Updating the Fedora Project Mission

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 14 April 2017 at 22:10, Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Matthew Miller
>  <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: 
>  It's also worth pointing out that if people are seeing it as
>  uninteresting and boring, then perhaps we just need a better message
>  around why it's exciting to help develop a fully featured Free
>  operating system. The new message may even help in that, but we have
>  to remember that we haven't actually "won" the war for Free and Open
>  Source software. There are all-new battles to fight and some of the
>  same old battles are there too.
>
>  Please consider integrating these core aspects into a new mission draft. 

I am not disagreeing with your feeling, but working with mission
statements aren't one of those things which do well with statements
like "Please consider". Offer a patch or don't expect the change to
move forward or in the way you wanted. [Think of it like telling the
kernel people it would be nice if they considered implementing for the
sound card in your computer... they can say they did but since they
have no idea what that would be like.. didn't.]

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Updating the Fedora Project Mission

[Neal Gompa]

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <smooge(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On 14 April 2017 at 22:10, Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com&gt;
> wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Matthew Miller
> > <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>
> > It's also worth pointing out that if people are seeing it as
> > uninteresting and boring, then perhaps we just need a better message
> > around why it's exciting to help develop a fully featured Free
> > operating system. The new message may even help in that, but we have
> > to remember that we haven't actually "won" the war for Free and Open
> > Source software. There are all-new battles to fight and some of the
> > same old battles are there too.
> >
> > Please consider integrating these core aspects into a new mission draft.
>
>
>  I am not disagreeing with your feeling, but working with mission
>  statements aren't one of those things which do well with statements
>  like "Please consider". Offer a patch or don't expect the change to
>  move forward or in the way you wanted. [Think of it like telling the
>  kernel people it would be nice if they considered implementing for the
>  sound card in your computer... they can say they did but since they
>  have no idea what that would be like.. didn't.]
>  
I guess I could suggest something, like...

   Fedora creates an innovative operating system platform built on
   free and open source software that lights up hardware, clouds,
   and containers for software developers and community members
   to build tailored solutions for their users.

How is that? That wasn't even that difficult. But I wanted to know why
they felt it was okay to leave those bits out in the first place.

The thing I couldn't quite figure out how to fit into the new language
was showing we still care about the Linux desktop and other more
conventional avenues. As it is, it feels a bit exclusionary from that.
Any suggestions?


-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

Updating the Fedora Project Mission

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 15 April 2017 at 14:08, Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Stephen John Smoogen
> <smooge(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> > On 14 April 2017 at 22:10, Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Matthew Miller
> >> <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> >
> >> It's also worth pointing out that if people are seeing it as
> >> uninteresting and boring, then perhaps we just need a better message
> >> around why it's exciting to help develop a fully featured Free
> >> operating system. The new message may even help in that, but we have
> >> to remember that we haven't actually "won" the war for Free and
> Open
> >> Source software. There are all-new battles to fight and some of the
> >> same old battles are there too.
> >>
> >> Please consider integrating these core aspects into a new mission draft.
> >
> >
> > I am not disagreeing with your feeling, but working with mission
> > statements aren't one of those things which do well with statements
> > like "Please consider". Offer a patch or don't expect the change to
> > move forward or in the way you wanted. [Think of it like telling the
> > kernel people it would be nice if they considered implementing for the
> > sound card in your computer... they can say they did but since they
> > have no idea what that would be like.. didn't.]
> >
>
>  I guess I could suggest something, like...
>
>     Fedora creates an innovative operating system platform built on
>     free and open source software that lights up hardware, clouds,
>     and containers for software developers and community members
>     to build tailored solutions for their users.
>
>  How is that? That wasn't even that difficult. But I wanted to know why
>  they felt it was okay to leave those bits out in the first place.
>  
That wording implies it was done by malice. It makes people defensive
even if it was "You know what.. we just assumed everyone would know
that."

A mission statement needs to be short and to the point. The more stuff
you cram in there the less anyone remembers anything about it (they
will tend to either focus on their little bit over others or how the
others dwarf their little bit). Personally I think the original one
was too long but I am a grumpy old coot. Since I have said that.. I
will propose my patch

The Fedora Project creates innovative platforms built on Free and Open
source software that allows developer and operators build tailored
solutions for their users.

It is probably still too long but I don't like calling it devops as
that is too specific a term which may go out of fashion in a year or
so. I dropped hardware as people are going to start wanting specific
hardware.. I dropped containers and clouds because they are again
fashionable terms which can fall out of favor faster than we like. All
of those are implied by platforms.

>  The thing I couldn't quite figure out how to fit into the new
> language
>  was showing we still care about the Linux desktop and other more
>  conventional avenues. As it is, it feels a bit exclusionary from that.
>  Any suggestions? 
I believe that is what the Workstation group needs to add to their
mission statement. Otherwise you end up with a large contingent of
"why not us" who just add in stop energy to the people who did get
included.

>  --
>  真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.