#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+-------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Keywords: ---------------------+-------------------- In this year we would like to organise, and run for FAD EMEA BUD 2015. We have made our calculations, and we have the venue places, but we require full funding/cover for food and hotel costs. NOT REIMBURSEMENT. More about the details can be found at here: Wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Budapest_2015_bid. The event is planned to be held at 2015. nov. 27-29.
Budget sheet : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wl5YcHQOlcM6BeRludN9eq1iTKkbfp2HICg1...
We have less and less time to have confirmation for the venues, and the current date that we can hold the offers are 2015 oct. 25. After this date the hotel cancel the reservation, and give other price (I guess expensive), so as the conference room owner.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
but we require full funding/cover for food and hotel costs. NOT
REIMBURSEMENT.
Capital letters or not, I'm not sure that's something we're just plain practically able to do. Is there a fallback plan?
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by rgeri77):
We build up this event focused to the nearest locations between Hotel, Conference hall, social event, restaurant and possibly sight seeing of the city. Here you can check the map:
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/151019/fad_map01b_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
We can look other solutions (fallback, backup plan) but possibly we cannot get better or the same places, and will be expensive because the short time.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
So, as I understand it, you're asking for the food and hotel costs to be paid up front, presumably by someone from Red Hat / OSAS?
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by pnemade):
I can't open budget sheet. All the budget information should be added on the FAD wiki page and it should be visible to all. Also event is for 2 days or 3 days? I see Agenda for 28th and 29th Nov only.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
Wait, Laser Squad Arena? 500€ for lunch during "Budapest sightseeing"?
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by rgeri77):
Hello. I started to update the Budget sheet:
1. I will ask Zoltan about the last day 500EUR ? I dont know either. For last day we plan snack food, fast food. 2. I can get a projector, so we can cut off that price (310EUR)
Laser Squad arena will be on Saturday night, after the conference. Budapest sightseeing is optional and will be on Sunday, like the Szechenyi bath.Its self paid.
Here is the short schedule:
Friday - Arrive - Sir Lancelot Restaurant social event Saturday - Conference in the Gundel with snack food + lunch + dinner. Social event is the Laser Squad Arena Sunday - Sightseeing or Szechenyi bath. Self paid.
Thanks RGeri77
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by jwboyer):
I'm slightly confused on a couple of items here.
1) Why wasn't this done at Flock this year, which is the primary conference for NA and EMEA? (I honestly don't know, so it is a simple question.)
2) I'm not sure spending Fedora budget on a social event for a FAD, which typically are limited and scoped in nature, is really appropriate. That might be something the regional ambassadors can pay for out of their allocation for the quarter.
3) Why was this presented to the Council with such short notice and with such a tight deadline? That would seem to reduce the odds of getting approval.
4) When Matt said "we might not be able to do" above, he was referring to paying up front. Normally OSAS requires purchase orders or regional credit card refunds per their accounting rules.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by rgeri77):
I dont know how is it worked in the past years. This might be the first FAD at Budapest organizing by the Hungarian Fedora Community. I dont know the exact steps,power relations, we are greenhorn and We need help. The only person who gave help us is Gerold. Unfortunatelly Joerg cant help because personal reasons.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by rdieter):
And for me, These bits are not unreasonable: * hotel: 1400€ (700€ per day) * equipment: 310€ * coffee: 392€ * day 3 sight seeing, lunch 500€ (or use the money for meal on day 2)
totaling ~2600 eur so far, but...
I think other items need further justification (as mentioned by others already), in particular: * day 2 dinner: 1400€ (50€ per person) * day 2 laser squad: 448€
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by rgeri77):
rdieter: Lets look at the right side of the sheet. There is a per person price. 50EUR / double room (2person) / night. We dont know the exact attendee number. If we calculate with double room, then we need ( 14 x 50 ) x 2 night. Equipment, as I wrote I can get the stuffs from my companies. We can cut this off to zero. Coffee, tea, thats it. Day 3, I dont know the 500EUR. I need to ask Zoltan.
Day 2, Laser Squad game 3490HUF + tax(16EUR inc. tax) / person / 2 hours. 16 * 28 person
If anyone need the offer from the companies We can send it in email!
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by jwboyer):
To be clear, I believe the hesitation on the Laser Squad game is not the quoted price for the game. It is the fact that funds are being requested for it at all. As I said earlier, social events of this nature for a FAD are not something we've typically funded through the main Fedora budget. If the regional ambassadors are not willing to pay for that event through their local budget, it might be best to drop it entirely.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
I agree with Josh; a FAD isn't meant to be a mini-conference — we have Flock and FUDCon for that. It's to help people to get people together to hack on things. A small social event (dinner, usually) is totally reasonable, as is lunch during the day.
I know EMEA does a planning FAD annually, and as we noted in the last council meeting, this is the region where the budget process is working most smoothly, and those things probably aren't disconnected. If this process, including bonding over laser tag, is the best way to get results in line with the mission of the Ambassadors, okay, but I'd rather see that attached to the regional budget, so we can all consider the results as a whole.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by pfrields):
Replying to [comment:12 mattdm]:
I agree with Josh; a FAD isn't meant to be a mini-conference — we have
Flock and FUDCon for that. It's to help people to get people together to hack on things. A small social event (dinner, usually) is totally reasonable, as is lunch during the day.
Agreed -- the concept of the FAD has always been to concentrate on concrete work. It's different from a wide-ranging conference. A FAD focuses on project work involving people who, for the most part, regularly collaborate together. Originally they were designed to bring people together within a close geographic area, to keep costs down. Nowadays we have quite a lot of collaborators from different regions so that's harder to do. But we should always be looking to keep costs reasonable.
It's quite reasonable to have the project foot the bill for some cheap group lunches (pizza, sandwiches, whatever is customary in the region), as well as a social dinner. Entertainment should be at the travelers' discretion and cost. That's not unreasonable considering how much is being spent to bring people together and keep them fed and lodged.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by zoltanh721):
I think it's better to shut down all movements, and planning according FAD EMEA BUD 2015. We regional ambassadors are unable to cover financially the event, and we are very close to the date to get approx. 70% penality over the booking. Next year I think we gonna plan it better to get funding, and possibly planning. We have decided to send cancel mails around the requested booking places, so sorry for the inconvenience. Maybe it would be wise to turn this into an hangout session...
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by rgeri77):
I confirm, FAD 2015 for this year canceled because the reasons of Zoltan mentioned.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
Thanks for the update.
I want to support the EMEA ambassadors in a) planning and b) working together as a group. So I'm generally in favor of having this _kind_ of FAD, including social events. But I want to be able to say with a straight face that this money all went to benefit Fedora. I want to be able to demonstrate the direct, positive impact, which is the only way we'll be able to ask for _more_, ever. And I want to be fair to the other regions as well. As we discussed on our previous phone call, EMEA has generally been very good about budget, and I'm sure that this FAD is part of that.
But, given that the budget allocation is already underway and we won't have results until early next year, there isn't pressure to do this in a rush.
Hello Everybody,
to be honest, since years this FAD brought Red Hat the numbers from EMEA which they have to spend as budget for the next fiscal year, as well as an outcome was, that we decided what are the strategic plans in SWAG, in Media production, which event will be covered, wher ewe need to improve our presence, what to do next to bring the community in front and so on and so on ... For me, this discussion looks like a finger pointing: "... Look they burn the money to have a funny weekend on our costs ..." They want to get money for a location, for food and a social event which is, sorry WAS planned a lazergame. The former FADs in Rheinfelden, which I organised so far were amout the same amount of money and we also had every year a social event which brings us away from the computer for a few hours ... We covered in that event more than 10 nations in EMEA, brought together all important "Country" LEader and had a hard weekend. Most of us payed travel by their own, spending a whole weekend without family, children and friends. I´d also like to say that on the most FAD´s in Rheinfelden, a FPL showed up or some VIPs from Red Hat with a credit card because they knew about the importance to get correct and planable numbers from EMEA. For this year, it can be skipped and the budget numbers which we in EMEA gave every year since I was part of it, can be imagined by the stars. I´m really sorry about that point of viewing and I´m also more than just disappointed by the short view of some individuals.
Best regards Gerold
Am 27.10.2015 um 20:05 schrieb council:
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
Thanks for the update.
I want to support the EMEA ambassadors in a) planning and b) working together as a group. So I'm generally in favor of having this _kind_ of FAD, including social events. But I want to be able to say with a straight face that this money all went to benefit Fedora. I want to be able to demonstrate the direct, positive impact, which is the only way we'll be able to ask for _more_, ever. And I want to be fair to the other regions as well. As we discussed on our previous phone call, EMEA has generally been very good about budget, and I'm sure that this FAD is part of that.
But, given that the budget allocation is already underway and we won't have results until early next year, there isn't pressure to do this in a rush.
On 27 October 2015 at 13:39, Gerold gerold@lugd.org wrote:
Hello Everybody,
to be honest, since years this FAD brought Red Hat the numbers from EMEA which they have to spend as budget for the next fiscal year, as well as an outcome was, that we decided what are the strategic plans in SWAG, in Media production, which event will be covered, wher ewe need to improve our presence, what to do next to bring the community in front and so on and so on ... For me, this discussion looks like a finger pointing: "... Look they burn the money to have a funny weekend on our costs ..." They want to get money for a location, for food and a social event which is, sorry WAS planned a lazergame. The former FADs in Rheinfelden, which I organised so far were amout the same amount of money and we also had every year a social event which brings us away from the computer for a few hours ... We covered in that event more than 10 nations in EMEA, brought together all important "Country" LEader and had a hard weekend. Most of us payed travel by their own, spending a whole weekend without family, children and friends. I´d also like to say that on the most FAD´s in Rheinfelden, a FPL showed up or some VIPs from Red Hat with a credit card because they knew about the importance to get correct and planable numbers from EMEA. For this year, it can be skipped and the budget numbers which we in EMEA gave every year since I was part of it, can be imagined by the stars. I´m really sorry about that point of viewing and I´m also more than just disappointed by the short view of some individuals.
In the past did you ask for the money to be paid in advance? What was your general lead time for setting this up? 30 days, 60 days, 90 days? If the answer is yes that the money needed to be paid in advance to the hotel and other places and that the general setup time to get the money to the hotel and events was short then yes this was a failure on people's part to understand how things are done. And if it is a failure then it needs to be better documented because the short notice and being paid in advance are the parts that are causing people consternation.. the lazer tag is a red herring (Ablenkungsmanöver?) It is the part that a couple of people brought up but the real issue was
1) Short time to approve payments 2) Payment in advance when most events are paid afterwords.
Best regards Gerold
Am 27.10.2015 um 20:05 schrieb council:
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
Thanks for the update.
I want to support the EMEA ambassadors in a) planning and b) working together as a group. So I'm generally in favor of having this _kind_ of FAD, including social events. But I want to be able to say with a straight face that this money all went to benefit Fedora. I want to be able to demonstrate the direct, positive impact, which is the only way we'll be able to ask for _more_, ever. And I want to be fair to the other regions as well. As we discussed on our previous phone call, EMEA has generally been very good about budget, and I'm sure that this FAD is part of that.
But, given that the budget allocation is already underway and we won't have results until early next year, there isn't pressure to do this in a rush.
council-discuss mailing list council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/council-discuss
The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and open source software and content as a collaborative community.
On 27 October 2015 at 13:39, Gerold gerold@lugd.org wrote:
Hello Everybody,
to be honest, since years this FAD brought Red Hat the numbers from EMEA which they have to spend as budget for the next fiscal year, as well as an outcome was, that we decided what are the strategic plans in SWAG, in Media production, which event will be covered, wher ewe need to improve our presence, what to do next to bring the community in front and so on and so on ... For me, this discussion looks like a finger pointing: "... Look they burn the money to have a funny weekend on our costs ..." They want to get money for a location, for food and a social event which is, sorry WAS planned a lazergame. The former FADs in Rheinfelden, which I organised so far were amout the same amount of money and we also had every year a social event which brings us away from the computer for a few hours ... We covered in that event more than 10 nations in EMEA, brought together all important "Country" LEader and had a hard weekend. Most of us payed travel by their own, spending a whole weekend without family, children and friends. I´d also like to say that on the most FAD´s in Rheinfelden, a FPL showed up or some VIPs from Red Hat with a credit card because they knew about the importance to get correct and planable numbers from EMEA. For this year, it can be skipped and the budget numbers which we in EMEA gave every year since I was part of it, can be imagined by the stars. I´m really sorry about that point of viewing and I´m also more than just disappointed by the short view of some individuals.
In the past did you ask for the money to be paid in advance? What was your general lead time for setting this up? 30 days, 60 days, 90 days? If the answer is yes that the money needed to be paid in advance to the hotel and other places and that the general setup time to get the money to the hotel and events was short then yes this was a failure on people's part to understand how things are done. And if it is a failure then it needs to be better documented because the short notice and being paid in advance are the parts that are causing people consternation.. the lazer tag is a red herring (Ablenkungsmanöver?) It is the part that a couple of people brought up but the real issue was
- Short time to approve payments
- Payment in advance when most events are paid afterwords.
Hello Stephen, thanks for coming back with that questions and also a warm thank you, that you tried to understand, what I wanted to point out and what I have explained. First, let me be a little unpolite and reply with questions, too. Have you ever organized an event for 20 Persons from 20 different countries? Do you have a full $DAYJOB, which is not to related to OpenSource who binds you totally? Are you able and willing to be the bank for the time you will be reimburst from someone who maybe pay in half a year?
And now some answers from mine to your questions: I, by myself started always planing with that FAD in August (each year) with the first quotes from the hotel and as well I checked everything around like dinner, social event, etc. And YES, after I was blamed by the hotel in the first year that they got their money not in time (they got it 5 month after the event, directly then by credit card of Max Spevack), they told me that they never host any event for me/us if they don't get the amount in front. If you have ever the need to get reimburst for the money you loan (because it is nothing else, when I represent Fedora in the name of Red Hat), then you'll know what I'm talking about. I personally waited also half a year for my money I spend from my own pocket for an event. I'm sorry, I have family and also monthly costs, which can't be shifted, because I spend my money for a credit to the OpenSource; if you got that point. And so, maybe you also understand that I'm not willing to credit 20 peoples bed and breakfast and a venue; because I haven't such an amount in spare; do you? Since reimbursement is such a pain, there was many years ago to give some honored members of the Community a credit card; it works mostly as far as I was aware of it. But in general it's hard to get the money back you spent; at least in Europe. For sure, transparency and the short notice will maybe make the FAD this year failing, but I dislike the taste of which it was cancled and the mind which was around in council with the request. Thanks for your time
Gerold
Best regards Gerold
Am 27.10.2015 um 20:05 schrieb council:
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+---------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: new | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
Thanks for the update.
I want to support the EMEA ambassadors in a) planning and b) working together as a group. So I'm generally in favor of having this _kind_ of FAD, including social events. But I want to be able to say with a straight face that this money all went to benefit Fedora. I want to be able to demonstrate the direct, positive impact, which is the only way we'll be able to ask for _more_, ever. And I want to be fair to the other regions as well. As we discussed on our previous phone call, EMEA has generally been very good about budget, and I'm sure that this FAD is part of that.
But, given that the budget allocation is already underway and we won't have results until early next year, there isn't pressure to do this in a rush.
council-discuss mailing list council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/council-discuss
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-- Stephen J Smoogen. _______________________________________________ council-discuss mailing list council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/council-discuss
The Fedora Project's mission is to lead the advancement of free and open source software and content as a collaborative community.
Hi Gerold,
My apologies for the top post, but I believe it might be better to address things this way rather than point by point.
First, thank you for taking the time to express your frustrations. I can assure you that the Council is frustrated as well. The EMEA ambassadors and their handling of the budget was one of the few bright spots in our budget review from a couple weeks ago, and we wish to see that continue. I personally think EMEA is the exemplary ambassador region that others should look to for guidance and advice on a number of things.
However, this particular FAD request was somewhat unusual. As you've said, the short notice and pay-up-front nature of the request were odd, combined with the fact that the people we usually see organizing it are entirely absent. We love having new contributors do work so the last point isn't really an issue on its own, but when taken as a whole it seemed odd.
We know that reimbursement is a pain. This is not limited to community members either. As a Red Hat employee, all of my travel is paid for out-of-pocket and reimbursed after the fact. I am fully aware of the difficulties this can cause, however it is the way accounting works here and advance payment is very difficult to accomplish. Even the community credit cards are technically reimbursement that is paid after the fact. I don't see this changing, so as we prepare requests in the future we need to keep this in mind.
As to our tone around the social event, please forgive me if I was perceived as harsh and uncaring. I realize that such meetings can be draining and doing something away from the computer or meeting can be a needed and welcome break. My intention was not to eliminate it entirely at all. However, the Council has received a larger number of budget requests this year which is causing us to review each more carefully. As Matt said, we want to make sure the money being spent can immediately be shown to have a positive impact on the project. To put it bluntly, the number of social events and the amount for them seemed excessive for a FAD. That and the lack of any real information around them was where we had trouble finding that portion of the request reasonable.
As the Council is trying to more fully understand the overall budget picture, we did not find it reasonable to approve the request without at least asking some questions. Ultimately I believe it was as Stephen suggested and the short notice and upfront request were the deal breakers for approval. This is unfortunate and I truly hope that the EMEA ambassadors can come back with another proposal so that we can continue to have strong leadership and financial responsibility in that region. Thank you again for your efforts and time.
josh
On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 2:43 AM, Gerold gerold@lugd.org wrote:
On 27 October 2015 at 13:39, Gerold gerold@lugd.org wrote:
Hello Everybody,
to be honest, since years this FAD brought Red Hat the numbers from EMEA which they have to spend as budget for the next fiscal year, as well as an outcome was, that we decided what are the strategic plans in SWAG, in Media production, which event will be covered, wher ewe need to improve our presence, what to do next to bring the community in front and so on and so on ... For me, this discussion looks like a finger pointing: "... Look they burn the money to have a funny weekend on our costs ..." They want to get money for a location, for food and a social event which is, sorry WAS planned a lazergame. The former FADs in Rheinfelden, which I organised so far were amout the same amount of money and we also had every year a social event which brings us away from the computer for a few hours ... We covered in that event more than 10 nations in EMEA, brought together all important "Country" LEader and had a hard weekend. Most of us payed travel by their own, spending a whole weekend without family, children and friends. I´d also like to say that on the most FAD´s in Rheinfelden, a FPL showed up or some VIPs from Red Hat with a credit card because they knew about the importance to get correct and planable numbers from EMEA. For this year, it can be skipped and the budget numbers which we in EMEA gave every year since I was part of it, can be imagined by the stars. I´m really sorry about that point of viewing and I´m also more than just disappointed by the short view of some individuals.
In the past did you ask for the money to be paid in advance? What was your general lead time for setting this up? 30 days, 60 days, 90 days? If the answer is yes that the money needed to be paid in advance to the hotel and other places and that the general setup time to get the money to the hotel and events was short then yes this was a failure on people's part to understand how things are done. And if it is a failure then it needs to be better documented because the short notice and being paid in advance are the parts that are causing people consternation.. the lazer tag is a red herring (Ablenkungsmanöver?) It is the part that a couple of people brought up but the real issue was
- Short time to approve payments
- Payment in advance when most events are paid afterwords.
Hello Stephen, thanks for coming back with that questions and also a warm thank you, that you tried to understand, what I wanted to point out and what I have explained. First, let me be a little unpolite and reply with questions, too. Have you ever organized an event for 20 Persons from 20 different countries? Do you have a full $DAYJOB, which is not to related to OpenSource who binds you totally? Are you able and willing to be the bank for the time you will be reimburst from someone who maybe pay in half a year?
And now some answers from mine to your questions: I, by myself started always planing with that FAD in August (each year) with the first quotes from the hotel and as well I checked everything around like dinner, social event, etc. And YES, after I was blamed by the hotel in the first year that they got their money not in time (they got it 5 month after the event, directly then by credit card of Max Spevack), they told me that they never host any event for me/us if they don't get the amount in front. If you have ever the need to get reimburst for the money you loan (because it is nothing else, when I represent Fedora in the name of Red Hat), then you'll know what I'm talking about. I personally waited also half a year for my money I spend from my own pocket for an event. I'm sorry, I have family and also monthly costs, which can't be shifted, because I spend my money for a credit to the OpenSource; if you got that point. And so, maybe you also understand that I'm not willing to credit 20 peoples bed and breakfast and a venue; because I haven't such an amount in spare; do you? Since reimbursement is such a pain, there was many years ago to give some honored members of the Community a credit card; it works mostly as far as I was aware of it. But in general it's hard to get the money back you spent; at least in Europe. For sure, transparency and the short notice will maybe make the FAD this year failing, but I dislike the taste of which it was cancled and the mind which was around in council with the request. Thanks for your time
Gerold
On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 08:39:59PM +0100, Gerold wrote:
For me, this discussion looks like a finger pointing: "... Look they burn the money to have a funny weekend on our costs ..."
Gerold, "on our costs" is actually "from the scant resources the Fedora Project has for all of our community activities". I think it's entirely appropriate to be frugal with our spending on social events. I am not at all opposed to _having_ social events at FADs — in fact, I think they are important, and was totally fine with approving the 600€ for that for last year's FAD. But this request had a significantly higher portion allocated towards various social events. That just doesn't seem fair to everyone else.
I understand that the reimbursement thing is frustrating, but, really, I'm extremely happy that we are able to offer that kind of reimbursement at all. In order to _keep_ being able to do that, we need be very sure we're making the most of what we ask for.
I know that particularly for large sums and where credit cards are not as widespread as in the US, the corporate policies of our sponsor are less than ideal (although I should add it *shouldn't* take months to be reimbursed). We might be able to work out other things, but *this* is not easy and requires extra time. Coming to the Council asking for special handling for money in a few days just isn't realistic.
without family, children and friends. I´d also like to say that on the most FAD´s in Rheinfelden, a FPL showed up or some VIPs from Red Hat with a credit card because they knew about the importance to get correct and planable numbers from EMEA.
I certainly know about the importance, and as we just discussed, would like this from _all_ of the regions. It's evident that a planning FAD helps, because EMEA has always had the best organization.
But, I don't _have_ a magical Red Hat credit card — I get reimbursed like everyone else, and I have to justify each and every transaction. I certainly don't have the travel budget for going off to Europe several times a year, let alone also APAC and LATAM. We could take money from the community budget, but, honestly, I'd _rather_ use that money to get other Fedora contributors to Flock and to FADs.
#45: Sponsorship/Funding for FAD EMEA BUDAPEST 2015 ---------------------+----------------------- Reporter: rgeri77 | Owner: decause Status: closed | Priority: normal Component: General | Resolution: declined Keywords: | ---------------------+----------------------- Changes (by mattdm):
* status: new => closed * resolution: => declined
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