Red Hat is listed on the top donors page[1] of the FSFE
When I look at various documents published by FSFE, including minutes of their annual meeting from 2019, I feel they actively violate the Fedora Code of Conduct
One volunteer breaking the Code of Conduct could be a mistake or somebody having a bad day. A group of people getting together and voting to deliberately violate the Code of Conduct is far more hideous.
If individual Fedora volunteers want to participate in outside groups that is their choice but for Fedora's parent company, Red Hat, to actively donate to a group that violates the Code of Conduct is a clear leadership failing. How can anybody expect individual volunteers to demonstrate excellence when the leaders of organizations can use their positions for harassment against community representatives past and present?
It is worth reading things like the FSFE minutes alongside documents such as der Unterwensch[2] (the Sub-Human), produced in Berlin in 1942 to see that this idea of demoting and shaming an individual volunteer or minority is not only a Code of Conduct violation, it is the road to evil.
I feel that cutting financial support to groups like this is far more important than the proposed communications policy and would appreciate Fedora Council's feedback on this.
Regards,
Daniel
1. https://fsfe.org/donate/thankgnus.en.html 2. http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/deruntermensch.html
On 19/10/2020 21:43, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi,
Ar 10/19/20 3:41 PM, scríobh Daniel Pocock:
Red Hat is listed on the top donors page[1] of the FSFE
You could take that up with Red Hat. It's not relevant to Fedora.
It is a bit like Coronavirus.
You can't just say "let's eliminate infections in Fedora but we don't have to test the Red Hat employees"
Achieving the excellent standards that people aim for requires a consistent approach across organizations, especially when Red Hat and Fedora are so close.
Regards,
Daniel
Like Máirín said, the sponsorship is from Red Hat, not Fedora. This is off-topic for the council-discuss mailing list.
Ar 10/19/20 3:49 PM, scríobh Daniel Pocock:
You could take that up with Red Hat. It's not relevant to Fedora.
It is a bit like Coronavirus.
You can't just say "let's eliminate infections in Fedora but we don't have to test the Red Hat employees"
Achieving the excellent standards that people aim for requires a consistent approach across organizations, especially when Red Hat and Fedora are so close.
Taking issue with an organization that is *two* jumps away from Fedora (Fedora => Red Hat => FSFE) is *not* the same as taking issue with an organization that is *one* jump away and directly related (Fedora => Red Hat.) If you have concerns about Red Hat's involvement with FSFE, then Red Hat is the appropriate organization to address.
Your rationale would apply if FSFE was not two hops away. In the same way, to continue your analogy - under pandemic guidance in a number of regions and countries, if you were in *direct* contact with an infected individual (*one* hop away), you must quarantine, but you do not have to quarantine if you were in contact with an individual who was in direct contact with an infected individual (*two* hops away.) That is how contact tracing works.
~m
On 19/10/2020 21:57, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Ar 10/19/20 3:49 PM, scríobh Daniel Pocock:
You could take that up with Red Hat. It's not relevant to Fedora.
It is a bit like Coronavirus.
You can't just say "let's eliminate infections in Fedora but we don't have to test the Red Hat employees"
Achieving the excellent standards that people aim for requires a consistent approach across organizations, especially when Red Hat and Fedora are so close.
Taking issue with an organization that is *two* jumps away from Fedora (Fedora => Red Hat => FSFE) is *not* the same as taking issue with an organization that is *one* jump away and directly related (Fedora => Red Hat.) If you have concerns about Red Hat's involvement with FSFE, then Red Hat is the appropriate organization to address.
Your rationale would apply if FSFE was not two hops away. In the same way, to continue your analogy - under pandemic guidance in a number of regions and countries, if you were in *direct* contact with an infected individual (*one* hop away), you must quarantine, but you do not have to quarantine if you were in contact with an individual who was in direct contact with an infected individual (*two* hops away.) That is how contact tracing works.
My metaphor was valid but a technical analysis doesn't feel helpful.
When it comes to leadership, people look at the big picture.
For example, if your doctor tells you to stop smoking and then you see him smoking outside the pub, it undermines what he told you. He can't just say "I'm at the pub so its off topic now"
Regards,
Daniel
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 4:14 PM Daniel Pocock daniel@pocock.pro wrote:
For example, if your doctor tells you to stop smoking and then you see him smoking outside the pub, it undermines what he told you. He can't just say "I'm at the pub so its off topic now"
The Fedora Council does not make decisions for Red Hat. This is off-topic and there is no need for further discussion of the matter on this list.
That said, it's not a code of conduct if its primary function in application is to create divides and alienate non-compliant entities.
Was its purpose ever anything but that?
-C
On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 22:13 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 19/10/2020 21:57, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Ar 10/19/20 3:49 PM, scríobh Daniel Pocock:
You could take that up with Red Hat. It's not relevant to Fedora.
It is a bit like Coronavirus.
You can't just say "let's eliminate infections in Fedora but we don't have to test the Red Hat employees"
Achieving the excellent standards that people aim for requires a consistent approach across organizations, especially when Red Hat and Fedora are so close.
Taking issue with an organization that is *two* jumps away from Fedora (Fedora => Red Hat => FSFE) is *not* the same as taking issue with an organization that is *one* jump away and directly related (Fedora => Red Hat.) If you have concerns about Red Hat's involvement with FSFE, then Red Hat is the appropriate organization to address.
Your rationale would apply if FSFE was not two hops away. In the same way, to continue your analogy - under pandemic guidance in a number of regions and countries, if you were in *direct* contact with an infected individual (*one* hop away), you must quarantine, but you do not have to quarantine if you were in contact with an individual who was in direct contact with an infected individual (*two* hops away.) That is how contact tracing works.
My metaphor was valid but a technical analysis doesn't feel helpful.
When it comes to leadership, people look at the big picture.
For example, if your doctor tells you to stop smoking and then you see him smoking outside the pub, it undermines what he told you. He can't just say "I'm at the pub so its off topic now"
Regards,
Daniel _______________________________________________ council-discuss mailing list -- council-discuss@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to council-discuss-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-discuss@lists.fedorapr...
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