[Design Team] #412: Illogical ordering of paragraphs on stg.getfedora

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31 Oct 2015 31 Oct '15

7:47 p.m.

#412: Illogical ordering of paragraphs on stg.getfedora -----------------------+--------------------------- Reporter: kkofler | Owner: Type: Web Design | Status: new Priority: medium | Severity: Quick & Easy Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | -----------------------+--------------------------- The design on https://stg.getfedora.org/ first presents the 3 main "editions", then an abstract philosophy item (the "4 Fs"), and only then the "Want more Fedora options?" paragraph. The logical place for the additional options is right below the 3 "editions", before the "4 Fs".

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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1 Nov 1 Nov

7:33 a.m.

#412: Illogical ordering of paragraphs on stg.getfedora -------------------------+------------------------- Reporter: kkofler | Owner: Type: Web Design | Status: new Priority: medium | Severity: Quick & Easy Resolution: | Keywords: Blocked By: | Blocking: -------------------------+------------------------- Changes (by rdieter):

* cc: rdieter (added)

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:1 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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10:49 a.m.

Comment (by orion):

I agree

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:2 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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4:26 p.m.

Comment (by robyduck):

The order seems logical to me, all the stuff (spins, ask, magazine, docs) under our 4 foundations can also be considered as '''more Fedora...''', so it's right to put it on the bottom.

IMO a brochure site (which is done for the main editions) should always contain also the principles of what it is promoting, and in our case these are our 4 foundations we are proud of.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:3 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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6:26 p.m.

Comment (by ryanlerch):

I'm leaning towards agreeing with moving that above the 4f's -- the page's main goal is for people to get Fedora -- and if they are looking for KDE, having the 4f's in between make it a below the fold on even a larger monitor.

That said it is interesting to note that if you google search fedora kde, the top hit is the individual spin page -- which IMHO is a good thing.

cheers, ryanlerch

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:4 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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6:48 p.m.

Comment (by rdieter):

My take (largely matching ryan's): this is a site to *get* fedora, and spins are yet another way to get fedora.

Those other items mentioned are certainly worth mentioning, but to me seem to be more about information and support (before and after getting fedora).

It may not seem significant, but any small step of positively responding to this constructive criticism would go a long way.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:5 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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2 Nov 2 Nov

12:58 a.m.

Comment (by robyduck):

getfedora.org is thought to get Fedora, right, but it's meant to get the three editions. We made big efforts to setup the dedicated websites, and if you google you get the right pages, if you don't know where to go.

What about labs and Arm? They are not even mentioned on getfedora.org... The risk of all these changes is we miss the main goal of this website, and that is getting workstation, server and cloud. Or?

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:6 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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5:11 a.m.

Comment (by rdieter):

Sure, the editions certainly are the primary deliverables (and always have been listed first and foremost. I would dispute that goal would be compromised here.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:7 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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4 Nov 4 Nov

1:23 p.m.

Comment (by duffy):

hi, the order and layout is mostly the same as it was before and I believe the text is exactly the same. the only change here is the visual styling /gfx.

the spins promo actually is raised higher in this design than the pre f23 one (see here http://web.archive.org/web/20151026063347/https://getfedora.org/ - it was on the bottom left. now it's on the top left.)

i would be in support of scaling down the 4f's and the editions artwork slightly just to raise the content that is lower down up a bit, but i don't agree that changing the ordering makes sense.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:8 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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1:29 p.m.

Comment (by duffy):

Also, just to provide further rationale for why i don't think changing the ordering makes sense:

Honestly, ideally we'd use the inverted pyramid here, talk about what fedora actually was first, then offer the main downloads, then offer secondary downloads and other resources after that. However, after quite a few rounds of being involved in the design of fedoraproject.org over several years :) we have learned that having download links right up top and easily accessible is really important to a large portion of our user base. However, we also need to cater to new Fedora converts / folks trying it out for the first time who may not be 100% on what Fedora actually is or what differentiates it from other distros. So putting the actual high- level "what is Fedora" material below the fold, after no less than 3 specific downloadable options and 3 seperate websites each full of multiple downloads, seems a bit much. You kind of have to get to know someone before you can call them a friend?

Hope this makes more sense. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive in the previous comment.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:9 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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2:11 p.m.

Comment (by robyduck):

Replying to [comment:8 duffy]:

...

hi, the order and layout is mostly the same as it was before and I

believe the text is exactly the same. the only change here is the visual styling /gfx.

...

the spins promo actually is raised higher in this design than the pre

f23 one (see here http://web.archive.org/web/20151026063347/https://getfedora.org/ - it was on the bottom left. now it's on the top left.)

...

i would be in support of scaling down the 4f's and the editions artwork

slightly just to raise the content that is lower down up a bit, but i don't agree that changing the ordering makes sense.

...

Ok works for me. I'll work on resizing the big edition icons and our 4f's a bit, but keeping the order as it is now. Thanks.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:10 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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5:28 p.m.

Comment (by kkofler):

...

we have learned that having download links right up top and easily

accessible is really important to a large portion of our user base

All the more reason to not hide some of the download links much lower where nobody will find them.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:11 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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5 Nov 5 Nov

6:05 a.m.

Comment (by ryanlerch):

Replying to [comment:9 duffy]:

...

Also, just to provide further rationale for why i don't think changing

the ordering makes sense:

...

Honestly, ideally we'd use the inverted pyramid here, talk about what

fedora actually was first, then offer the main downloads, then offer secondary downloads and other resources after that. However, after quite a few rounds of being involved in the design of fedoraproject.org over several years :) we have learned that having download links right up top and easily accessible is really important to a large portion of our user base. However, we also need to cater to new Fedora converts / folks trying it out for the first time who may not be 100% on what Fedora actually is or what differentiates it from other distros. So putting the actual high- level "what is Fedora" material below the fold, after no less than 3 specific downloadable options and 3 seperate websites each full of multiple downloads, seems a bit much. You kind of have to get to know someone before you can call them a friend?

...

Hope this makes more sense. I didn't mean to come off as dismissive in

the previous comment.

Thanks for the explaination Mo, It makes sense to me now.

cheers, ryanlerch

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:12 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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7:50 a.m.

#412: Illogical ordering of paragraphs on stg.getfedora -------------------------+------------------------- Reporter: kkofler | Owner: Type: Web Design | Status: closed Priority: medium | Severity: Quick & Easy Resolution: fixed | Keywords: triaged Blocked By: | Blocking: -------------------------+------------------------- Changes (by duffy):

* keywords: => triaged * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed

Comment:

kkofler - getfedora.org is a download site for the 3 editions, not for the spins/labs/arm variants. spins/labs/arm have their own sites that are the primary download sites, and the download buttons for those are much more prominent and far up the page respectively.

what we do not want to do is overwhelm folks brand new to fedora with a choice of the 20+ or so downloads we offer.

robyduck already made the scaling down changes and pushed to prod, so i'm going to close the ticket now. feel free to reopen if needed.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:13 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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7:52 a.m.

Comment (by rdieter):

...

getfedora.org is a download site for the 3 editions, not for the

spins/labs/arm variants.

See, this is one point where we disagree. Who says? Where is that documented?

If a clear statement on that from governing bodies is needed, then let's make that happen, but until then, I don't think it's fair to assume.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:14 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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7:58 a.m.

Comment (by rdieter):

To put another way... the other stuff is already also mentioned on the same page, we're just asking to put it in a better place, particularly, someplace easier to find not below the fold.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:15 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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8:04 a.m.

Comment (by duffy):

We spent months documenting the fedora.next website redesign (if not over a whole year), posting mockups, asking for feedback. I'm a bit shocked to get this level of comment about it now, 3 releases later - these decisions were made long ago as part of an open process, this is not something that can be changed easily.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:16 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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8:29 a.m.

Comment (by rdieter):

I understand that, just please don't go changing the goalposts here.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:17 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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8:30 a.m.

Comment (by duffy):

I don't follow

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:18 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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8:32 a.m.

Comment (by rdieter):

The reasoning behind not addressing this request... seems to be not consistent.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:19 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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8:39 a.m.

Comment (by duffy):

#1 We have addressed the request by scaling down the graphics so more content appears above the fold

#2 I fail to see a lack of consistency here. getfedora.org is primarily geared at users new to Fedora and thus we want to push them towards the primary downloads, the three editions. We have the links for getting more information about these high up on the page, then we have more information about what Fedora is directly below that. As I already explained, to do as is being suggested here and link out to spins, labs, and arm above explaining what Fedora actually is would be a really weird move because:

1 the site is for the fedora editions, the other sites aren't the main editions

2 if the explanation for what fedora actually is on the main site geared towards fedora newbies is below the fold, how could the site be considered appropriate?

3 overwhelming newbies with 20+ choices when they don't even know that they want fedora is just not good UX or design practice.

I don't see where any of what I have said has been inconsistent, but if you can point me to specific points where you feel I've been consistent I am happy to answer questions / clarify

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:20 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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8:41 a.m.

Comment (by duffy):

I think a better tactic if you want KDE specifically to be at the top of this page is to speak with the council about having it considered as a main edition. This is really out of scope for the design and websites teams. We are doing our best to provide the optimal user experience according to the objectives / goals the broader project has set. We are not in charge of setting them.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:21 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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11:53 a.m.

Comment (by mattdm):

My inclination here is to defer to design and websites in matters where they're the experts. And I think Máirín's explanation of the design goals make sense.

I'm not opposed to having an edition which happens to be KDE based, but I *am* opposed to having one for its own sake. The idea behind Workstation isn't to promote GNOME — it's to grow Fedora by focusing on a target area we can win and expanding from there, rather than throwing out possibilities and hoping they stick. And the getfedora.org site is designed around that.

Also, for what it's worth, especially with the redesign, the links to non- edition options are significantly more prominent than the equivalent in any other distribution I'm aware of.

-- Ticket URL: https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/412#comment:22 Design Team http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design Fedora Design Team

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