First evaluations after testing Anaconda and Gnome installations F19 TC3

[Onyeibo Oku]

>  I thought you may be interested in what I encountered.
>  
>  In my evaluation, I got more negative feelings about Gnome than the
>  3.6 version. With 3.6 version, for any program not within the
>  favourites bar, it requires 4 mouse clicks to launch.
>  
>  With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks.  By the way, with
>  Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the
>  appropriate application and click a second time. Done.
>  There is a favourites bar as well on the side, and a second favourites
>  bar on the bottom panel. 
>  
>  For a user of the system. Office, browse, email, some installed
>  packages and games, Gnome 4.x is very heavy on using the left mouse
>  button. I ended up with tendonitus and had to quit using Gnome, or
>  suffer major tendon damage (repetitive action damage).  It  is I that
>  had the problem and I cannot say that others will have experienced
>  similar problems.
>  
>  I do have questions about Gnome 4.  What is the difference between
>  Favourites bar contents and Frequent items.  If items are used
>  frequently, they should replace the items in the favourites bar.
>  Frenquent items list is maintained dynamically, and often incorrectly,
>  and the other is a static placement.  Did anyone notice that if an
>  item is in Frequent side of the collection, it is no longer in the All
>  side of the collection. 
>  
>  My  major grype with Gnome Desktop is the [:::] (9 sided die)
>  launcher.  Why is it not removed from the favourites bar and placed
>  next to Activities?  Putting it there would save two clicks on the
>  mouse.  With a little logic, it may even be possible to replace
>  Activities by this [:::] launcher. 
>  
>  If we look at the Linux users in the world,  the majority of the
>  population writes from left to right. (Arabic, Hebrew, and a few other
>  languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have
>  the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of
>  the desktop presentation.  Why do we have to slide from extreme top
>  left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. 
>  Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output
>  would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
>  
>  I am trying to be positive about identifying and fixing items that
>  cause Linux users to shy away from Gnome.
>  
>  Regards 
>   Leslie
>  
>  Mr. Leslie Satenstein
>  50 years in Information Technology and going strong.
>  Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day,
>  and tomorrow will be even better. mailto:[e-mail]
>  alternative: leslie.satenstein(a)gmail.com 
>  SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM. 

Two things:  
(1) I don't anything about Anaconda in that message
(2) The message has nothing to do with the fedora-design team and
shouldn't be on this mailing list

Thanks for running Fedora, but it might be more productive to send your
desktop evalution report to Gnome developers or fedora Desktop Group.

Regards

Onyeibo




_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

[Leslie S Satenstein]

I believe that the design team should consider the human aspect of linux management or
linux use. Future designs could profit from saying, "How do I make things easy for
system management and for general end-users use of the system.  
 Leslie
 

--- On Thu, 4/4/13, Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

From: Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt;
Subject: [Design-team] First evaluations after testing Anaconda and Gnome installations
F19 TC3
To: design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Date: Thursday, April 4, 2013, 3:34 AM


>  I thought you may be interested in what I encountered.
>  
>  In my evaluation, I got more negative feelings about Gnome than the
>  3.6 version. With 3.6 version, for any program not within the
>  favourites bar, it requires 4 mouse clicks to launch.
>  
>  With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks.  By the way, with
>  Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the
>  appropriate application and click a second time. Done.
>  There is a favourites bar as well on the side, and a second favourites
>  bar on the bottom panel. 
>  
>  For a user of the system. Office, browse, email, some installed
>  packages and games, Gnome 4.x is very heavy on using the left mouse
>  button. I ended up with tendonitus and had to quit using Gnome, or
>  suffer major tendon damage (repetitive action damage).  It  is I that
>  had the problem and I cannot say that others will have experienced
>  similar problems.
>  
>  I do have questions about Gnome 4.  What is the difference between
>  Favourites bar contents and Frequent items.  If items are used
>  frequently, they should replace the items in the favourites bar.
>  Frenquent items list is maintained dynamically, and often incorrectly,
>  and the other is a static placement.  Did anyone notice that if an
>  item is in Frequent side of the collection, it is no longer in the All
>  side of the collection. 
>  
>  My  major grype with Gnome Desktop is the [:::] (9 sided die)
>  launcher.  Why is it not removed from the favourites bar and placed
>  next to Activities?  Putting it there would save two clicks on the
>  mouse.  With a little logic, it may even be possible to replace
>  Activities by this [:::] launcher. 
>  
>  If we look at the Linux users in the world,  the majority of the
>  population writes from left to right. (Arabic, Hebrew, and a few other
>  languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have
>  the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of
>  the desktop presentation.  Why do we have to slide from extreme top
>  left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. 
>  Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output
>  would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
>  
>  I am trying to be positive about identifying and fixing items that
>  cause Linux users to shy away from Gnome.
>  
>  Regards 
>   Leslie
>  
>  Mr. Leslie Satenstein
>  50 years in Information Technology and going strong.
>  Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day,
>  and tomorrow will be even better. mailto:[e-mail]
>  alternative: leslie.satenstein(a)gmail.com 
>  SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM. 

Two things:  
(1) I don't anything about Anaconda in that message
(2) The message has nothing to do with the fedora-design team and
shouldn't be on this mailing list

Thanks for running Fedora, but it might be more productive to send your
desktop evalution report to Gnome developers or fedora Desktop Group.

Regards

Onyeibo




-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

[S.Kemter]

Hi,


the question is, shall someone who sends his password for an mailing list
to the same define how to use an desktop environment?

br gnokii



2013/4/4 Leslie S Satenstein <lsatenstein(a)yahoo.com&gt;

>  I believe that the design team should consider the human aspect of
> linux
>  management or linux use. Future designs could profit from saying, "How do I
>  make things easy for system management and for general end-users use of the
>  system.
>  *
>   Leslie
>  *
>
>
>  --- On *Thu, 4/4/13, Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt;* wrote:
>
>
>  From: Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt;
>  Subject: [Design-team] First evaluations after testing Anaconda and Gnome
>  installations F19 TC3
>  To: design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Date: Thursday, April 4, 2013, 3:34 AM
>
>
>
>  > I thought you may be interested in what I encountered.
>  >
>  > In my evaluation, I got more negative feelings about Gnome than the
>  > 3.6 version. With 3.6 version, for any program not within the
>  > favourites bar, it requires 4 mouse clicks to launch.
>  >
>  > With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks.  By the way, with
>  > Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the
>  > appropriate application and click a second time. Done.
>  > There is a favourites bar as well on the side, and a second favourites
>  > bar on the bottom panel.
>  >
>  > For a user of the system. Office, browse, email, some installed
>  > packages and games, Gnome 4.x is very heavy on using the left mouse
>  > button. I ended up with tendonitus and had to quit using Gnome, or
>  > suffer major tendon damage (repetitive action damage).  It  is I that
>  > had the problem and I cannot say that others will have experienced
>  > similar problems.
>  >
>  > I do have questions about Gnome 4.  What is the difference between
>  > Favourites bar contents and Frequent items.  If items are used
>  > frequently, they should replace the items in the favourites bar.
>  > Frenquent items list is maintained dynamically, and often incorrectly,
>  > and the other is a static placement.  Did anyone notice that if an
>  > item is in Frequent side of the collection, it is no longer in the All
>  > side of the collection.
>  >
>  > My  major grype with Gnome Desktop is the [:::] (9 sided die)
>  > launcher.  Why is it not removed from the favourites bar and placed
>  > next to Activities?  Putting it there would save two clicks on the
>  > mouse.  With a little logic, it may even be possible to replace
>  > Activities by this [:::] launcher.
>  >
>  > If we look at the Linux users in the world,  the majority of the
>  > population writes from left to right. (Arabic, Hebrew, and a few other
>  > languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have
>  > the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of
>  > the desktop presentation.  Why do we have to slide from extreme top
>  > left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace.
>  > Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output
>  > would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
>  >
>  > I am trying to be positive about identifying and fixing items that
>  > cause Linux users to shy away from Gnome.
>  >
>  > Regards
>  >  Leslie
>  >
>  > Mr. Leslie Satenstein
>  > 50 years in Information Technology and going strong.
>  > Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day,
>  > and tomorrow will be even better.
> mailto:[e-mail]<http://mc/compose?to=[e-mail]>
>  > alternative:
> [e-mail]<http://mc/compose?to=[e-mail]>
>  > SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM.
>
>
>  Two things:
>  (1) I don't anything about Anaconda in that message
>  (2) The message has nothing to do with the fedora-design team and
>  shouldn't be on this mailing list
>
>  Thanks for running Fedora, but it might be more productive to send your
>  desktop evalution report to Gnome developers or fedora Desktop Group.
>
>  Regards
>
>  Onyeibo
>
>
>
>
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list
>
> [e-mail]<http://mc/compose?to=[e-mail]>
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list
>
> [e-mail]<http://mc/compose?to=[e-mail]>
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list
>  design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>  


-- 
make me rich, buy my Inkscape book http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)

[Leslie S Satenstein]

With Anaconda, I do have some usability recommendations. 

I have 4 disk drives.  One of the anaconda requests is to select an installation disk.
Suddenly my 4 disks appear, and I must choose one.  But only one of them has the free
space at a size that I created.  So...  this is a design suggestion.

When each disk drive is shown on the screen, show the free space under its
identification.
Why is showing the free space being done after I select the drive?
My other user experience is a study if better suggestion.  With the DVD or USB image of
the DVD,  I feel that Fedora's firstboot function is where the user should create the
administrator account (aside from root),  and that is when he should select the software
to install. Software selection should not take place in anaconda.  Anaconda is to concern
itself only with installation.

When software selection is deferred to firstboot,  The DVD/USB will still be in the
computer, available with the software that was provided.  But now, the yum logic can view
the software on the DVD versus the software in the repository. Only one installation takes
place -- the most recent version.

Here is how it benefits. 
a) Yesterday I did a fresh installation of Fedora 18. After reboot, I had 800megs of
updates to the software that I selected with anaconda.  But with firstboot, I would not
have to do two installations of applications. One with outdated applications provided on
the DVD, and the the second with more recent version from the repositories.

I have other issues that are technical with anaconda. I have posted these on bugzilla. 

Design Team peers, please tell me if my experience and recommendation make sense?



Regards  
 Leslie
 Mr. Leslie Satenstein
50 years in Information Technology and going strong.
Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day,
and tomorrow will be even better.mailto:[e-mail]
alternative: leslie.satenstein(a)gmail.com 
SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM.



--- On Thu, 4/4/13, S.Kemter <sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

From: S.Kemter <sirko.kemter(a)gmail.com&gt;
Subject: Re: [Design-team] First evaluations after testing Anaconda and Gnome
installations F19 TC3
To: "Fedora Design Team" <design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
Date: Thursday, April 4, 2013, 9:53 AM

Hi,


the question is, shall someone who sends his password for an mailing list to the same
define how to use an desktop environment?

br gnokii




2013/4/4 Leslie S Satenstein <lsatenstein(a)yahoo.com&gt;

I believe that the design team should consider the human aspect of linux management or
linux use. Future designs could profit from saying, "How do I make things easy for
system management and for general end-users use of the system.  

 Leslie
 

--- On Thu, 4/4/13, Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:


From: Onyeibo Oku <twohotis(a)gmail.com&gt;
Subject: [Design-team] First evaluations after testing Anaconda and Gnome installations
F19 TC3

To: design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Date: Thursday, April 4, 2013, 3:34 AM


>  I thought you may be interested in what I encountered. 
>  
>  In my evaluation, I got more negative feelings about Gnome than the
>  3.6 version. With 3.6 version, for any program not within the
>  favourites bar, it requires 4 mouse clicks to launch.
>   
>  With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks.  By the way, with
>  Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the
>  appropriate application and click a second time. Done.
>  There is a favourites bar as well on the side, and a second favourites 
>  bar on the bottom panel. 
>  
>  For a user of the system. Office, browse, email, some installed
>  packages and games, Gnome 4.x is very heavy on using the left mouse
>  button. I ended up with tendonitus and had to quit using Gnome, or 
>  suffer major tendon damage (repetitive action damage).  It  is I
> that
>  
 had the problem and I cannot say that others will have experienced
>  similar problems.
>  
>  I do have questions about Gnome 4.  What is the difference between
>  Favourites bar contents and Frequent items.  If items are used 
>  frequently, they should replace the items in the favourites bar.
>  Frenquent items list is maintained dynamically, and often incorrectly,
>  and the other is a static placement.  Did anyone notice that if an 
>  item is in Frequent side of the collection, it is no longer in the
> All
>  side of the collection. 
>  
>  My  major grype with Gnome Desktop is the [:::] (9 sided die)
>  launcher.  Why is it not removed from the favourites bar and placed 
>  next to Activities?  Putting it there would save two clicks on the
>  mouse.  With a little logic, it may even be possible to replace
>  Activities by this [:::] launcher. 
 
>  
>  If we look at the Linux users in the world,  the majority of the
>  population writes from left to right. (Arabic, Hebrew, and a few other
>  languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have 
>  the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of
>  the desktop presentation.  Why do we have to slide from extreme top
>  left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. 
>  Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output 
>  would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
>  
>  I am trying to be positive about identifying and fixing items that
>  cause Linux users to shy away from Gnome.
>  
>  Regards  
>   Leslie
>  
>  Mr. Leslie Satenstein
>  50 years in Information Technology and going strong.
>  Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day,
>  and 
 tomorrow will be even better. mailto:[e-mail]
>  alternative: leslie.satenstein(a)gmail.com  
>  SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM. 

Two things:  
(1) I don't anything about Anaconda in that message
(2) The message has nothing to do with the fedora-design team and
shouldn't be on this mailing list


Thanks for running Fedora, but it might be more productive to send your
desktop evalution report to Gnome developers or fedora Desktop Group.

Regards

Onyeibo



 


_______________________________________________

[Máirín Duffy]

Hi Leslie,

On 04/04/2013 10:18 AM, Leslie S Satenstein wrote:
>  With Anaconda, I do have some usability recommendations. 
Since I've seen you on the anaconda-devel list, I think you should know
better - the appropriate place to discuss anaconda is that list, not here.

~m