Proposal

[Nelson Marques]

Hi all,

 I thought over in many things and I do recognize some problems that
might be related to people not enrolling with communities like our. I
would like to propose the following (though I could prepare a decent
document, I'd rather take this approach first).

 Fedora 13 is going live soon, and honestly everyone should be committed
to it, but once F13 is live, it is expected that maybe in the upcoming
months after the release there's too much to do still. So maybe the best
time is to trigger this around July. At that time people should be
preparing for vacations and so on (at least the youth, which is probably
the main audience for this).
 I am not sure when the theme is going to be decided and specially by
whom for Fedora 14, but this makes sense to be done right after such is
accomplished.

 What I would like to do:

 Launch a challenge in existing artist communities through a cooperation
protocol between Fedora and those communities, for some quick examples:

 * opendesktop.org (gnome-look.org, kde-look.org, etc);
 * deviantart.com
 * gnome.org and kde.org (?? this people are most likely buried with
work already)
 * suggestions from current artists

 This challenge should be a "call to arms" oriented campaign in which
artists are invited to produce artwork for Fedora Project. As things are
not going to be much random, this is what I though that is going to be
needed:

 #1 - Fedora 14 Theme > this has to be decided prior.
 #2 - A document that provides guidelines for participants to comply
(this should be accomplished by the Fedora Design Team, as it's their
field of action/expertise).
 #3 - A place where artists can submit their work. (this shouldnt be too
complicated and I would suggest to use a wiki page for this).
 #4 - Licensing for submitted artwork (this is for sure something I have
no knowledge, I believe that eventually there are people here who have
done similiar things in the past, so selecting and highlighting such
would be great).
 #5 - A committee to analyze the submitted artwork. We can run this as
Fedora or eventually also invite people from other communities, such as
GNOME, KDE, etc. If this artwork is going to be enabled by Fedora and
distributed for KDE/GNOME, makes sense to me to have someone from their
project on this also. See such option as strengthening bonds between us
and them.
 #6 - A proper Marketing/Communication campaign for this. We should be
able to reach everyone.
 #7 - Decide what kind of artwork we want (ex: GNOME Meta Themes, KDE
themes, Icon Themes, wallpapers, videos ?).
 #8 - Some Ambassadorial support work. I would recon that _current_
artists who are ambassadors should have a key role here. As artists they
might be enrolled on other existing communities, they for sure talk the
same language as other artists and know how to attract people in a more
effective way than we can at Marketing. As for standard non-artist
Ambassadors, I believe they can help a lot also, as running such project
is mainly Public Relations work (something I suck at).

 Some doubts:

 - If we run such campaign, who decides if we can include or not
community based artwork? Can we freely include on F14 some extra stuff
that we get from such a campaign ?

 - The tools... we are promoting open source, but if we scroll through
Deviant Art for instance, there is work which is distributed with a
friendly license, but is generated in maybe non-friendly software, such
as OS X platforms and eventually not GIMP/Inkscape stuff. Should we
apply restrictions and check for headers and traces of non-oss in the
submitted artwork? 

 - I would like submitters to place their artwork in place where FAS
registration is demanded. In the rush of submitting their work, they
will go through that step with some "pleasure". If such is done, with a
single group apply (ex: design-team) and joining a mailling list, their
approach as a potential Fedora contributor is basically done. This could
be explored.

 - Ice breaking... People who might want to submit artwork will be for
sure in contact with some of our people. For example we can probably
forward them for a "help list" for this event or existing list such as
design-team to clear some doubts. Doing such will place them directly in
contact with Fedora Teams and will work as a Ice Breaker. This should
probably make their possible integration in the future much easier, as
they will start having friendly voices around.

 - Motivation - Fedora is supposed to be installed in 24 million
computers worldwide (or so some say). This is a kick-ass distribution
channel for artists. It should provide enough motivation for them to
participate (if we are friendly with rules).

 - Marketing Involvement > I'm not sure how many people face this, but
this is a typical marketing promotion campaign. It does require some
work and free time. I'm making myself available for this and I can nag
my employer to give me 5 hours weekly to work on this, plus my free
time.

 - Ambassadorial Work > I'm not sure on how this can be done, so some
feedback from Ambassadors is welcome, and eventually we can see how we
can help each other. Even between the involved departments/teams of
Fedora in such, their work as moderators and promoters should be a must.

 - Cost/Benefits Relation > This should be positive for everyone
involved. I'm not sure how design team faces such initiative... Fedora
Design is very important, and this should be an accessory for their
work, and of course a way to reinforce their ranks in number and gather
more contributors/artists for Fedora Artwork/Design Teams. That should
be our greatest benefict, plus providing a wider set or artwork on the
release. Get more people signed on FAS in a friendly way. Break the Ice
between Fedora and possible contributors. On the costs side... This is
will require time and effort from at least: Ambassadors, Marketing,
Design/Artwork and other teams of Fedora such as QA, packaging, etc. I
would say that 20 submissions for Meta-Themes would be already a great
win and would reward us all.

 For the rest, this is a very superficial approach, but if there is
interest from Fedora on this, I will turn this into a more in-depth
document and more objective.

 I believe we can try to do something different here and try to enlarge
our community a bit, plus providing a bit more of community
contributions. 

 All the problems have solutions, we just need to identify them and work
them out. I believe we have enough time between now and Fedora 14 theme
selection to work out this in a way that we can kick in fast and
aggressive soon after the main art theme is selected.

 I really would love to ear everyone's view about this, their own ideas
on how to make better, their concerns, their critics... everything...
only in possession of such information we can have a strong basis to
work out soemthing like this.

 From my personal point, I'm willing to place 10 hours/week for such
project and report to Marketing every single week about what has been
achieved.

 

 Nelson.  

-- 
Nelson Marques
Evil Clown (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm)

[Tareq Al Jurf]

Hi Nelson
I think that you should see this fedora-art.org
I sent opendesktop.org an email, and they've done it.

Regards

On 22 April 2010 19:52, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; wrote:

>  Hi all,
>
>   I thought over in many things and I do recognize some problems that
>  might be related to people not enrolling with communities like our. I
>  would like to propose the following (though I could prepare a decent
>  document, I'd rather take this approach first).
>
>   Fedora 13 is going live soon, and honestly everyone should be committed
>  to it, but once F13 is live, it is expected that maybe in the upcoming
>  months after the release there's too much to do still. So maybe the best
>  time is to trigger this around July. At that time people should be
>  preparing for vacations and so on (at least the youth, which is probably
>  the main audience for this).
>   I am not sure when the theme is going to be decided and specially by
>  whom for Fedora 14, but this makes sense to be done right after such is
>  accomplished.
>
>   What I would like to do:
>
>   Launch a challenge in existing artist communities through a cooperation
>  protocol between Fedora and those communities, for some quick examples:
>
>   * opendesktop.org (gnome-look.org, kde-look.org, etc);
>   * deviantart.com
>   * gnome.org and kde.org (?? this people are most likely buried with
>  work already)
>   * suggestions from current artists
>
>   This challenge should be a "call to arms" oriented campaign in which
>  artists are invited to produce artwork for Fedora Project. As things are
>  not going to be much random, this is what I though that is going to be
>  needed:
>
>   #1 - Fedora 14 Theme > this has to be decided prior.
>   #2 - A document that provides guidelines for participants to comply
>  (this should be accomplished by the Fedora Design Team, as it's their
>  field of action/expertise).
>   #3 - A place where artists can submit their work. (this shouldnt be too
>  complicated and I would suggest to use a wiki page for this).
>   #4 - Licensing for submitted artwork (this is for sure something I have
>  no knowledge, I believe that eventually there are people here who have
>  done similiar things in the past, so selecting and highlighting such
>  would be great).
>   #5 - A committee to analyze the submitted artwork. We can run this as
>  Fedora or eventually also invite people from other communities, such as
>  GNOME, KDE, etc. If this artwork is going to be enabled by Fedora and
>  distributed for KDE/GNOME, makes sense to me to have someone from their
>  project on this also. See such option as strengthening bonds between us
>  and them.
>   #6 - A proper Marketing/Communication campaign for this. We should be
>  able to reach everyone.
>   #7 - Decide what kind of artwork we want (ex: GNOME Meta Themes, KDE
>  themes, Icon Themes, wallpapers, videos ?).
>   #8 - Some Ambassadorial support work. I would recon that _current_
>  artists who are ambassadors should have a key role here. As artists they
>  might be enrolled on other existing communities, they for sure talk the
>  same language as other artists and know how to attract people in a more
>  effective way than we can at Marketing. As for standard non-artist
>  Ambassadors, I believe they can help a lot also, as running such project
>  is mainly Public Relations work (something I suck at).
>
>   Some doubts:
>
>   - If we run such campaign, who decides if we can include or not
>  community based artwork? Can we freely include on F14 some extra stuff
>  that we get from such a campaign ?
>
>   - The tools... we are promoting open source, but if we scroll through
>  Deviant Art for instance, there is work which is distributed with a
>  friendly license, but is generated in maybe non-friendly software, such
>  as OS X platforms and eventually not GIMP/Inkscape stuff. Should we
>  apply restrictions and check for headers and traces of non-oss in the
>  submitted artwork?
>
>   - I would like submitters to place their artwork in place where FAS
>  registration is demanded. In the rush of submitting their work, they
>  will go through that step with some "pleasure". If such is done, with a
>  single group apply (ex: design-team) and joining a mailling list, their
>  approach as a potential Fedora contributor is basically done. This could
>  be explored.
>
>   - Ice breaking... People who might want to submit artwork will be for
>  sure in contact with some of our people. For example we can probably
>  forward them for a "help list" for this event or existing list such as
>  design-team to clear some doubts. Doing such will place them directly in
>  contact with Fedora Teams and will work as a Ice Breaker. This should
>  probably make their possible integration in the future much easier, as
>  they will start having friendly voices around.
>
>   - Motivation - Fedora is supposed to be installed in 24 million
>  computers worldwide (or so some say). This is a kick-ass distribution
>  channel for artists. It should provide enough motivation for them to
>  participate (if we are friendly with rules).
>
>   - Marketing Involvement > I'm not sure how many people face this, but
>  this is a typical marketing promotion campaign. It does require some
>  work and free time. I'm making myself available for this and I can nag
>  my employer to give me 5 hours weekly to work on this, plus my free
>  time.
>
>   - Ambassadorial Work > I'm not sure on how this can be done, so some
>  feedback from Ambassadors is welcome, and eventually we can see how we
>  can help each other. Even between the involved departments/teams of
>  Fedora in such, their work as moderators and promoters should be a must.
>
>   - Cost/Benefits Relation > This should be positive for everyone
>  involved. I'm not sure how design team faces such initiative... Fedora
>  Design is very important, and this should be an accessory for their
>  work, and of course a way to reinforce their ranks in number and gather
>  more contributors/artists for Fedora Artwork/Design Teams. That should
>  be our greatest benefict, plus providing a wider set or artwork on the
>  release. Get more people signed on FAS in a friendly way. Break the Ice
>  between Fedora and possible contributors. On the costs side... This is
>  will require time and effort from at least: Ambassadors, Marketing,
>  Design/Artwork and other teams of Fedora such as QA, packaging, etc. I
>  would say that 20 submissions for Meta-Themes would be already a great
>  win and would reward us all.
>
>   For the rest, this is a very superficial approach, but if there is
>  interest from Fedora on this, I will turn this into a more in-depth
>  document and more objective.
>
>   I believe we can try to do something different here and try to enlarge
>  our community a bit, plus providing a bit more of community
>  contributions.
>
>   All the problems have solutions, we just need to identify them and work
>  them out. I believe we have enough time between now and Fedora 14 theme
>  selection to work out this in a way that we can kick in fast and
>  aggressive soon after the main art theme is selected.
>
>   I really would love to ear everyone's view about this, their own ideas
>  on how to make better, their concerns, their critics... everything...
>  only in possession of such information we can have a strong basis to
>  work out soemthing like this.
>
>   From my personal point, I'm willing to place 10 hours/week for such
>  project and report to Marketing every single week about what has been
>  achieved.
>
>
>
>   Nelson.
>
>  --
>  Nelson Marques
>  Evil Clown
> (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm<http://redw...
>  )
>
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>  


-- 
Tareq Al Jurf
Fedora Ambassador
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
taljurf(a)fedoraproject.org

[Nelson Marques]

Good stuff.
Could we manage to get a Plymouth themes area ? :)

nelson

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 20:03 +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
>  Hi Nelson
>  I think that you should see this fedora-art.org
>  I sent opendesktop.org an email, and they've done it.
>  
>  Regards
>  
>  On 22 April 2010 19:52, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; wrote:
>          
>          Hi all,
>          
>           I thought over in many things and I do recognize some
>          problems that
>          might be related to people not enrolling with communities like
>          our. I
>          would like to propose the following (though I could prepare a
>          decent
>          document, I'd rather take this approach first).
>          
>           Fedora 13 is going live soon, and honestly everyone should be
>          committed
>          to it, but once F13 is live, it is expected that maybe in the
>          upcoming
>          months after the release there's too much to do still. So
>          maybe the best
>          time is to trigger this around July. At that time people
>          should be
>          preparing for vacations and so on (at least the youth, which
>          is probably
>          the main audience for this).
>           I am not sure when the theme is going to be decided and
>          specially by
>          whom for Fedora 14, but this makes sense to be done right
>          after such is
>          accomplished.
>          
>           What I would like to do:
>          
>           Launch a challenge in existing artist communities through a
>          cooperation
>          protocol between Fedora and those communities, for some quick
>          examples:
>          
>           * opendesktop.org (gnome-look.org, kde-look.org, etc);
>           * deviantart.com
>           * gnome.org and kde.org (?? this people are most likely
>          buried with
>          work already)
>           * suggestions from current artists
>          
>           This challenge should be a "call to arms" oriented campaign
>          in which
>          artists are invited to produce artwork for Fedora Project. As
>          things are
>          not going to be much random, this is what I though that is
>          going to be
>          needed:
>          
>           #1 - Fedora 14 Theme > this has to be decided prior.
>           #2 - A document that provides guidelines for participants to
>          comply
>          (this should be accomplished by the Fedora Design Team, as
>          it's their
>          field of action/expertise).
>           #3 - A place where artists can submit their work. (this
>          shouldnt be too
>          complicated and I would suggest to use a wiki page for this).
>           #4 - Licensing for submitted artwork (this is for sure
>          something I have
>          no knowledge, I believe that eventually there are people here
>          who have
>          done similiar things in the past, so selecting and
>          highlighting such
>          would be great).
>           #5 - A committee to analyze the submitted artwork. We can run
>          this as
>          Fedora or eventually also invite people from other
>          communities, such as
>          GNOME, KDE, etc. If this artwork is going to be enabled by
>          Fedora and
>          distributed for KDE/GNOME, makes sense to me to have someone
>          from their
>          project on this also. See such option as strengthening bonds
>          between us
>          and them.
>           #6 - A proper Marketing/Communication campaign for this. We
>          should be
>          able to reach everyone.
>           #7 - Decide what kind of artwork we want (ex: GNOME Meta
>          Themes, KDE
>          themes, Icon Themes, wallpapers, videos ?).
>           #8 - Some Ambassadorial support work. I would recon that
>          _current_
>          artists who are ambassadors should have a key role here. As
>          artists they
>          might be enrolled on other existing communities, they for sure
>          talk the
>          same language as other artists and know how to attract people
>          in a more
>          effective way than we can at Marketing. As for standard
>          non-artist
>          Ambassadors, I believe they can help a lot also, as running
>          such project
>          is mainly Public Relations work (something I suck at).
>          
>           Some doubts:
>          
>           - If we run such campaign, who decides if we can include or
>          not
>          community based artwork? Can we freely include on F14 some
>          extra stuff
>          that we get from such a campaign ?
>          
>           - The tools... we are promoting open source, but if we scroll
>          through
>          Deviant Art for instance, there is work which is distributed
>          with a
>          friendly license, but is generated in maybe non-friendly
>          software, such
>          as OS X platforms and eventually not GIMP/Inkscape stuff.
>          Should we
>          apply restrictions and check for headers and traces of non-oss
>          in the
>          submitted artwork?
>          
>           - I would like submitters to place their artwork in place
>          where FAS
>          registration is demanded. In the rush of submitting their
>          work, they
>          will go through that step with some "pleasure". If such is
>          done, with a
>          single group apply (ex: design-team) and joining a mailling
>          list, their
>          approach as a potential Fedora contributor is basically done.
>          This could
>          be explored.
>          
>           - Ice breaking... People who might want to submit artwork
>          will be for
>          sure in contact with some of our people. For example we can
>          probably
>          forward them for a "help list" for this event or existing list
>          such as
>          design-team to clear some doubts. Doing such will place them
>          directly in
>          contact with Fedora Teams and will work as a Ice Breaker. This
>          should
>          probably make their possible integration in the future much
>          easier, as
>          they will start having friendly voices around.
>          
>           - Motivation - Fedora is supposed to be installed in 24
>          million
>          computers worldwide (or so some say). This is a kick-ass
>          distribution
>          channel for artists. It should provide enough motivation for
>          them to
>          participate (if we are friendly with rules).
>          
>           - Marketing Involvement > I'm not sure how many people face
>          this, but
>          this is a typical marketing promotion campaign. It does
>          require some
>          work and free time. I'm making myself available for this and I
>          can nag
>          my employer to give me 5 hours weekly to work on this, plus my
>          free
>          time.
>          
>           - Ambassadorial Work > I'm not sure on how this can be done,
>          so some
>          feedback from Ambassadors is welcome, and eventually we can
>          see how we
>          can help each other. Even between the involved
>          departments/teams of
>          Fedora in such, their work as moderators and promoters should
>          be a must.
>          
>           - Cost/Benefits Relation > This should be positive for
>          everyone
>          involved. I'm not sure how design team faces such
>          initiative... Fedora
>          Design is very important, and this should be an accessory for
>          their
>          work, and of course a way to reinforce their ranks in number
>          and gather
>          more contributors/artists for Fedora Artwork/Design Teams.
>          That should
>          be our greatest benefict, plus providing a wider set or
>          artwork on the
>          release. Get more people signed on FAS in a friendly way.
>          Break the Ice
>          between Fedora and possible contributors. On the costs side...
>          This is
>          will require time and effort from at least: Ambassadors,
>          Marketing,
>          Design/Artwork and other teams of Fedora such as QA,
>          packaging, etc. I
>          would say that 20 submissions for Meta-Themes would be already
>          a great
>          win and would reward us all.
>          
>           For the rest, this is a very superficial approach, but if
>          there is
>          interest from Fedora on this, I will turn this into a more
>          in-depth
>          document and more objective.
>          
>           I believe we can try to do something different here and try
>          to enlarge
>          our community a bit, plus providing a bit more of community
>          contributions.
>          
>           All the problems have solutions, we just need to identify
>          them and work
>          them out. I believe we have enough time between now and Fedora
>          14 theme
>          selection to work out this in a way that we can kick in fast
>          and
>          aggressive soon after the main art theme is selected.
>          
>           I really would love to ear everyone's view about this, their
>          own ideas
>          on how to make better, their concerns, their critics...
>          everything...
>          only in possession of such information we can have a strong
>          basis to
>          work out soemthing like this.
>          
>           From my personal point, I'm willing to place 10 hours/week
>          for such
>          project and report to Marketing every single week about what
>          has been
>          achieved.
>          
>          
>          
>           Nelson.
>          
>          --
>          Nelson Marques
>          Evil Clown
>          (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm)
>          
>          --
>          marketing mailing list
>          marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>          https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>  
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Tareq Al Jurf
>  Fedora Ambassador
>  Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
>  taljurf(a)fedoraproject.org
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list
>  design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team 
-- 
Nelson Marques
Evil Clown (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm)

[Tareq Al Jurf]

I'll contact the them to see if i can.

On 22 April 2010 21:19, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; wrote:

>  Good stuff.
>  Could we manage to get a Plymouth themes area ? :)
>
>  nelson
>
>  On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 20:03 +0300, Tareq Al Jurf wrote:
>  > Hi Nelson
>  > I think that you should see this fedora-art.org
>  > I sent opendesktop.org an email, and they've done it.
>  >
>  > Regards
>  >
>  > On 22 April 2010 19:52, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  >         Hi all,
>  >
>  >          I thought over in many things and I do recognize some
>  >         problems that
>  >         might be related to people not enrolling with communities like
>  >         our. I
>  >         would like to propose the following (though I could prepare a
>  >         decent
>  >         document, I'd rather take this approach first).
>  >
>  >          Fedora 13 is going live soon, and honestly everyone should be
>  >         committed
>  >         to it, but once F13 is live, it is expected that maybe in the
>  >         upcoming
>  >         months after the release there's too much to do still. So
>  >         maybe the best
>  >         time is to trigger this around July. At that time people
>  >         should be
>  >         preparing for vacations and so on (at least the youth, which
>  >         is probably
>  >         the main audience for this).
>  >          I am not sure when the theme is going to be decided and
>  >         specially by
>  >         whom for Fedora 14, but this makes sense to be done right
>  >         after such is
>  >         accomplished.
>  >
>  >          What I would like to do:
>  >
>  >          Launch a challenge in existing artist communities through a
>  >         cooperation
>  >         protocol between Fedora and those communities, for some quick
>  >         examples:
>  >
>  >          * opendesktop.org (gnome-look.org, kde-look.org, etc);
>  >          * deviantart.com
>  >          * gnome.org and kde.org (?? this people are most likely
>  >         buried with
>  >         work already)
>  >          * suggestions from current artists
>  >
>  >          This challenge should be a "call to arms" oriented campaign
>  >         in which
>  >         artists are invited to produce artwork for Fedora Project. As
>  >         things are
>  >         not going to be much random, this is what I though that is
>  >         going to be
>  >         needed:
>  >
>  >          #1 - Fedora 14 Theme > this has to be decided prior.
>  >          #2 - A document that provides guidelines for participants to
>  >         comply
>  >         (this should be accomplished by the Fedora Design Team, as
>  >         it's their
>  >         field of action/expertise).
>  >          #3 - A place where artists can submit their work. (this
>  >         shouldnt be too
>  >         complicated and I would suggest to use a wiki page for this).
>  >          #4 - Licensing for submitted artwork (this is for sure
>  >         something I have
>  >         no knowledge, I believe that eventually there are people here
>  >         who have
>  >         done similiar things in the past, so selecting and
>  >         highlighting such
>  >         would be great).
>  >          #5 - A committee to analyze the submitted artwork. We can run
>  >         this as
>  >         Fedora or eventually also invite people from other
>  >         communities, such as
>  >         GNOME, KDE, etc. If this artwork is going to be enabled by
>  >         Fedora and
>  >         distributed for KDE/GNOME, makes sense to me to have someone
>  >         from their
>  >         project on this also. See such option as strengthening bonds
>  >         between us
>  >         and them.
>  >          #6 - A proper Marketing/Communication campaign for this. We
>  >         should be
>  >         able to reach everyone.
>  >          #7 - Decide what kind of artwork we want (ex: GNOME Meta
>  >         Themes, KDE
>  >         themes, Icon Themes, wallpapers, videos ?).
>  >          #8 - Some Ambassadorial support work. I would recon that
>  >         _current_
>  >         artists who are ambassadors should have a key role here. As
>  >         artists they
>  >         might be enrolled on other existing communities, they for sure
>  >         talk the
>  >         same language as other artists and know how to attract people
>  >         in a more
>  >         effective way than we can at Marketing. As for standard
>  >         non-artist
>  >         Ambassadors, I believe they can help a lot also, as running
>  >         such project
>  >         is mainly Public Relations work (something I suck at).
>  >
>  >          Some doubts:
>  >
>  >          - If we run such campaign, who decides if we can include or
>  >         not
>  >         community based artwork? Can we freely include on F14 some
>  >         extra stuff
>  >         that we get from such a campaign ?
>  >
>  >          - The tools... we are promoting open source, but if we scroll
>  >         through
>  >         Deviant Art for instance, there is work which is distributed
>  >         with a
>  >         friendly license, but is generated in maybe non-friendly
>  >         software, such
>  >         as OS X platforms and eventually not GIMP/Inkscape stuff.
>  >         Should we
>  >         apply restrictions and check for headers and traces of non-oss
>  >         in the
>  >         submitted artwork?
>  >
>  >          - I would like submitters to place their artwork in place
>  >         where FAS
>  >         registration is demanded. In the rush of submitting their
>  >         work, they
>  >         will go through that step with some "pleasure". If such is
>  >         done, with a
>  >         single group apply (ex: design-team) and joining a mailling
>  >         list, their
>  >         approach as a potential Fedora contributor is basically done.
>  >         This could
>  >         be explored.
>  >
>  >          - Ice breaking... People who might want to submit artwork
>  >         will be for
>  >         sure in contact with some of our people. For example we can
>  >         probably
>  >         forward them for a "help list" for this event or existing list
>  >         such as
>  >         design-team to clear some doubts. Doing such will place them
>  >         directly in
>  >         contact with Fedora Teams and will work as a Ice Breaker. This
>  >         should
>  >         probably make their possible integration in the future much
>  >         easier, as
>  >         they will start having friendly voices around.
>  >
>  >          - Motivation - Fedora is supposed to be installed in 24
>  >         million
>  >         computers worldwide (or so some say). This is a kick-ass
>  >         distribution
>  >         channel for artists. It should provide enough motivation for
>  >         them to
>  >         participate (if we are friendly with rules).
>  >
>  >          - Marketing Involvement > I'm not sure how many people face
>  >         this, but
>  >         this is a typical marketing promotion campaign. It does
>  >         require some
>  >         work and free time. I'm making myself available for this and I
>  >         can nag
>  >         my employer to give me 5 hours weekly to work on this, plus my
>  >         free
>  >         time.
>  >
>  >          - Ambassadorial Work > I'm not sure on how this can be done,
>  >         so some
>  >         feedback from Ambassadors is welcome, and eventually we can
>  >         see how we
>  >         can help each other. Even between the involved
>  >         departments/teams of
>  >         Fedora in such, their work as moderators and promoters should
>  >         be a must.
>  >
>  >          - Cost/Benefits Relation > This should be positive for
>  >         everyone
>  >         involved. I'm not sure how design team faces such
>  >         initiative... Fedora
>  >         Design is very important, and this should be an accessory for
>  >         their
>  >         work, and of course a way to reinforce their ranks in number
>  >         and gather
>  >         more contributors/artists for Fedora Artwork/Design Teams.
>  >         That should
>  >         be our greatest benefict, plus providing a wider set or
>  >         artwork on the
>  >         release. Get more people signed on FAS in a friendly way.
>  >         Break the Ice
>  >         between Fedora and possible contributors. On the costs side...
>  >         This is
>  >         will require time and effort from at least: Ambassadors,
>  >         Marketing,
>  >         Design/Artwork and other teams of Fedora such as QA,
>  >         packaging, etc. I
>  >         would say that 20 submissions for Meta-Themes would be already
>  >         a great
>  >         win and would reward us all.
>  >
>  >          For the rest, this is a very superficial approach, but if
>  >         there is
>  >         interest from Fedora on this, I will turn this into a more
>  >         in-depth
>  >         document and more objective.
>  >
>  >          I believe we can try to do something different here and try
>  >         to enlarge
>  >         our community a bit, plus providing a bit more of community
>  >         contributions.
>  >
>  >          All the problems have solutions, we just need to identify
>  >         them and work
>  >         them out. I believe we have enough time between now and Fedora
>  >         14 theme
>  >         selection to work out this in a way that we can kick in fast
>  >         and
>  >         aggressive soon after the main art theme is selected.
>  >
>  >          I really would love to ear everyone's view about this, their
>  >         own ideas
>  >         on how to make better, their concerns, their critics...
>  >         everything...
>  >         only in possession of such information we can have a strong
>  >         basis to
>  >         work out soemthing like this.
>  >
>  >          From my personal point, I'm willing to place 10 hours/week
>  >         for such
>  >         project and report to Marketing every single week about what
>  >         has been
>  >         achieved.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >          Nelson.
>  >
>  >         --
>  >         Nelson Marques
>  >         Evil Clown
>  >        
> (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm<http://redw...
>  )
>  >
>  >         --
>  >         marketing mailing list
>  >         marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  >         https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Tareq Al Jurf
>  > Fedora Ambassador
>  > Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
>  > taljurf(a)fedoraproject.org
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > design-team mailing list
>  > design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
>
>  --
>  Nelson Marques
>  Evil Clown
> (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm<http://redw...
>  )
>
>  --
>  marketing mailing list
>  marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>  


-- 
Tareq Al Jurf
Fedora Ambassador
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
taljurf(a)fedoraproject.org

[wonderer]

Hy,

here are my 2 Cents...

>   Launch a challenge in existing artist communities through a
> cooperation
>  protocol between Fedora and those communities, for some quick examples:
>     
Sounds good. With the right words you can reach very much people.
>   * opendesktop.org (gnome-look.org, kde-look.org, etc);
>   * deviantart.com
>   * gnome.org and kde.org (?? this people are most likely buried with
>  work already)
>   * suggestions from current artists
>
>   This challenge should be a "call to arms" oriented campaign in which
>  artists are invited to produce artwork for Fedora Project. As things are
>  not going to be much random, this is what I though that is going to be
>  needed:
>
>   #1 - Fedora 14 Theme > this has to be decided prior.
>     
The "Theme" is a very wide area ...
>   #2 - A document that provides guidelines for participants to comply
>  (this should be accomplished by the Fedora Design Team, as it's their
>  field of action/expertise).
>     
See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines2
Thats the first one I found. I think some Artworkers have some
pre-prepared Links to send them out ;-)

>   #3 - A place where artists can submit their work. (this shouldnt be
> too
>  complicated and I would suggest to use a wiki page for this).
>     
See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_Artwork (as soon as the Name and
Slogan is ready artists have enough input to go on). Then they should
(as always) send a Mail to the artwork mailing list for discussion.
If you want to work with them in a more collaborate way you can use
gobby and/or etherpad-clones like http://typewith.me/.
Then we also have fedoratalk with some conference rooms.
You see there are many ways of communicating together. You just have to
use it.
>   #4 - Licensing for submitted artwork (this is for sure something I
> have
>  no knowledge, I believe that eventually there are people here who have
>  done similiar things in the past, so selecting and highlighting such
>  would be great).
>     
License (as you already know) will be cc-licenced.
>   #5 - A committee to analyze the submitted artwork. We can run this
> as
>  Fedora or eventually also invite people from other communities, such as
>  GNOME, KDE, etc. If this artwork is going to be enabled by Fedora and
>  distributed for KDE/GNOME, makes sense to me to have someone from their
>  project on this also. See such option as strengthening bonds between us
>  and them.
>     
Hmm, my personal opinion would be that the Artwork-Team and the
Mailinglist and IRC around it should be sufficient and maybe there are
some of them who are happy to join your idea.
>   #6 - A proper Marketing/Communication campaign for this. We should
> be
>  able to reach everyone.
>   #7 - Decide what kind of artwork we want (ex: GNOME Meta Themes, KDE
>  themes, Icon Themes, wallpapers, videos ?).
>     
- Wallpapers (several ones around the Theming)
- Iconsets
- Countdown Graphic
- Banners (Alpha banner, Beta Banner, Release banner, Countdown Banner,
Download Banner, Website Banner, etc.)
- Splash-screen / Install screen
- DVD/CD sleeves
- Release Party Posters

For Spins and Window Managers (Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE...) I see some
timing / ressource / including / coordination problems.
Tip for the time-planing: do not forget Testing and QA work in the
timeline.

>   #8 - Some Ambassadorial support work. I would recon that _current_
>  artists who are ambassadors should have a key role here. As artists they
>  might be enrolled on other existing communities, they for sure talk the
>  same language as other artists and know how to attract people in a more
>  effective way than we can at Marketing. As for standard non-artist
>  Ambassadors, I believe they can help a lot also, as running such project
>  is mainly Public Relations work (something I suck at).
>     
I think thats less a Fedora Marketing (global) issue than more a PR
(localized) issue to reach them. Every artist lives in his or her small
world and you have to reach them more or less indididually. But you will
come very soon to that point ;-)
>   Some doubts:
>
>   - If we run such campaign, who decides if we can include or not
>  community based artwork? Can we freely include on F14 some extra stuff
>  that we get from such a campaign ?
>     
Shure. Why not?! Our artwork is fully Community based...
>   - The tools... we are promoting open source, but if we scroll
> through
>  Deviant Art for instance, there is work which is distributed with a
>  friendly license, but is generated in maybe non-friendly software, such
>  as OS X platforms and eventually not GIMP/Inkscape stuff. Should we
>  apply restrictions and check for headers and traces of non-oss in the
>  submitted artwork? 
>     
There are no restrictions. There never was. You only have to provide
your work under cc-license and the sourcecode so that modifications can
be done from everyone.
>   - I would like submitters to place their artwork in place where FAS
>  registration is demanded. In the rush of submitting their work, they
>  will go through that step with some "pleasure". If such is done, with a
>  single group apply (ex: design-team) and joining a mailling list, their
>  approach as a potential Fedora contributor is basically done. This could
>  be explored.
>     
This is how it works.
>   - Ice breaking... People who might want to submit artwork will be
> for
>  sure in contact with some of our people. For example we can probably
>  forward them for a "help list" for this event or existing list such as
>  design-team to clear some doubts. Doing such will place them directly in
>  contact with Fedora Teams and will work as a Ice Breaker. This should
>  probably make their possible integration in the future much easier, as
>  they will start having friendly voices around.
>     
The Mailinglist helped always new contributors. Mostly it goes the open
way like this:

$New_One: Hey, I'm new here. I have $cool_wallpaper and $cool_Iconset.
Do you like it?!
$Experienced_Fedora_Artworker: This looks pretty nice. Please take also
a look at $Fedora_Design_rules for proper dimensions/colors, etc. It
would be nice if you can put it into the $wiki or on to your
$fedora_people Account that we all can participate and improve it.
$New_One: Well, I'm not so experienced and I have done this with
$commercial_software. Is that ok?!
$Experienced_Fedora_Artworker: Not so much, because we do it the
OpenSource way (here: include $4-Foundations explanation, Opensource,
cc-licence, etc.) Please take a look at $Design_spin or
$Opensource_artwork_tools_links and try to adjust and edit your idea so
that it fits into that.
$New_One: Cool. I will do so. You guys and girls rock!
>   - Motivation - Fedora is supposed to be installed in 24 million
>  computers worldwide (or so some say). This is a kick-ass distribution
>  channel for artists. It should provide enough motivation for them to
>  participate (if we are friendly with rules).
>     
Jep. Thats a good start for e.g. an article about Fedora Artwork or some
interview how it is made, etc.
>   - Marketing Involvement > I'm not sure how many people face
> this, but
>  this is a typical marketing promotion campaign. It does require some
>  work and free time. I'm making myself available for this and I can nag
>  my employer to give me 5 hours weekly to work on this, plus my free
>  time.
>     
Yeah, but I think 5-10h can be to a bit to little. In my experience if
such a campaign comes up its more like 3-4h a day / 7 days.
>   - Ambassadorial Work > I'm not sure on how this can be done,
> so some
>  feedback from Ambassadors is welcome, and eventually we can see how we
>  can help each other. Even between the involved departments/teams of
>  Fedora in such, their work as moderators and promoters should be a must.
>     
I think we have proper channels for distribution there (FWN, planet,
Mailinglists, wiki).

As I said in my first sentence: you can reach very much people.

But you must IMHO also face the fact that it will be hard work and you
have to be very flexible all day and all night to communicate with
artists, the different Fedora Teams involved, organize Mailings on the
Mailinglist, meetings on IRC, structured timeplaning (I think here of
the good and nice Mails from John Poelestra which reminds us always on
the deadlines), be patient with soft souls and kick-ass to the lazy Ones
- Designers and artists are often (if they are not working in a
$design_agency VERY lazy :-) ), promote infos to all kind of people in
all kinds of shades, etc.
Because if you are not that way it can be bad not only for that small
project inside Fedora it could be very harmfull in the whole community!
If you are up to it I would say build a wikipage, make a timeplan (e.g.
beginning short before the Release Partys begin, because you can profit
from those events) and rock it...


mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards
Henrik Heigl - wonderer(a)fedoraproject.org

PGP/GnuPG: 8237 D432 0616 D567 DBC6  3FE3 0D52 B374 F468 A5F0

[Nelson Marques]

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 21:26 +0200, wonderer wrote:
>  Hy,
>  
>  here are my 2 Cents...
>  
>  >  Launch a challenge in existing artist communities through a cooperation
>  > protocol between Fedora and those communities, for some quick examples:
>  >   
>  Sounds good. With the right words you can reach very much people. 
And those words would be?

>  >  * opendesktop.org (gnome-look.org, kde-look.org, etc);
>  >  * deviantart.com
>  >  * gnome.org and kde.org (?? this people are most likely buried with
>  > work already)
>  >  * suggestions from current artists
>  >
>  >  This challenge should be a "call to arms" oriented campaign in which
>  > artists are invited to produce artwork for Fedora Project. As things are
>  > not going to be much random, this is what I though that is going to be
>  > needed:
>  >
>  >  #1 - Fedora 14 Theme > this has to be decided prior.
>  >   
>  The "Theme" is a very wide area ... 
well, I called "theme" the design orientation for that release. Imagine
this:

Fedora 13 > science, rocketry etc. S

>  >  #2 - A document that provides guidelines for participants to
> comply
>  > (this should be accomplished by the Fedora Design Team, as it's their
>  > field of action/expertise).
>  >   
>  See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Logo/UsageGuidelines2
>  Thats the first one I found. I think some Artworkers have some
>  pre-prepared Links to send them out ;-) 
I understand that, but for instance, if we launch a challenge, lets
imagine for a Meta-Theme (GNOME). It would be nice to have a more
objective document on how what colours should be adviced (eventually
brand colours), in which fields, etc... Stuff like, "there should be no
text in backgrounds... all that information if we make such a thing
should be recompiled into a plain document for easy check, instead of
the full armoured dense information on the wiki.

I don't want to add more work to Design Team, but I would recon this
could be great to have for new people who want to make a "fedora" theme.

I mean it would be nasty to have people submitting opensuse-greenish
artwork for fedora... So we should actually provide them with some
useful information.

I know this sounds restrictive, but the goal is to provide guidelines
for them to work according to the design teams specifications.


>  
>  >  #3 - A place where artists can submit their work. (this shouldnt be too
>  > complicated and I would suggest to use a wiki page for this).
>  >   
>  See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_Artwork (as soon as the Name and
>  Slogan is ready artists have enough input to go on). Then they should
>  (as always) send a Mail to the artwork mailing list for discussion.
>  If you want to work with them in a more collaborate way you can use
>  gobby and/or etherpad-clones like http://typewith.me/.
>  Then we also have fedoratalk with some conference rooms.
>  You see there are many ways of communicating together. You just have to
>  use it. 
True. We need also to promote those tools in a later stage for the sake
of everyone. Tools like gobby really amazed me.

>  >  #4 - Licensing for submitted artwork (this is for sure
> something I have
>  > no knowledge, I believe that eventually there are people here who have
>  > done similiar things in the past, so selecting and highlighting such
>  > would be great).
>  >   
>  License (as you already know) will be cc-licenced.
>  >  #5 - A committee to analyze the submitted artwork. We can run this as
>  > Fedora or eventually also invite people from other communities, such as
>  > GNOME, KDE, etc. If this artwork is going to be enabled by Fedora and
>  > distributed for KDE/GNOME, makes sense to me to have someone from their
>  > project on this also. See such option as strengthening bonds between us
>  > and them.
>  >   
>  Hmm, my personal opinion would be that the Artwork-Team and the
>  Mailinglist and IRC around it should be sufficient and maybe there are
>  some of them who are happy to join your idea.
>  >  #6 - A proper Marketing/Communication campaign for this. We should be
>  > able to reach everyone.
>  >  #7 - Decide what kind of artwork we want (ex: GNOME Meta Themes, KDE
>  > themes, Icon Themes, wallpapers, videos ?).
>  >   
>  - Wallpapers (several ones around the Theming)
>  - Iconsets
>  - Countdown Graphic
>  - Banners (Alpha banner, Beta Banner, Release banner, Countdown Banner,
>  Download Banner, Website Banner, etc.)
>  - Splash-screen / Install screen
>  - DVD/CD sleeves
>  - Release Party Posters 
I would probably be more restrictive, on wallpapers and themes...
eventually leave the Fedora Branded stuff to people who are already on
our team. If artists would like to provide art for those, maybe after
they join the actual respective teams? Letting them have something to
look for in the future is not a bad thing.


>  
>  For Spins and Window Managers (Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE...) I see some
>  timing / ressource / including / coordination problems.
>  Tip for the time-planing: do not forget Testing and QA work in the
>  timeline. 
We establish a time-line and date. Those who comply can see their work
promoted by Fedora, those who don't have always the normal channels.


>  
>  >  #8 - Some Ambassadorial support work. I would recon that _current_
>  > artists who are ambassadors should have a key role here. As artists they
>  > might be enrolled on other existing communities, they for sure talk the
>  > same language as other artists and know how to attract people in a more
>  > effective way than we can at Marketing. As for standard non-artist
>  > Ambassadors, I believe they can help a lot also, as running such project
>  > is mainly Public Relations work (something I suck at).
>  >   
>  I think thats less a Fedora Marketing (global) issue than more a PR
>  (localized) issue to reach them. Every artist lives in his or her small
>  world and you have to reach them more or less indididually. But you will
>  come very soon to that point ;-) 
Yeah, that does make all the sense. Like I said before, I don't speak
their language, which eventually would trigger artist ambassadors to
qualify better.


>  >  Some doubts:
>  >
>  >  - If we run such campaign, who decides if we can include or not
>  > community based artwork? Can we freely include on F14 some extra stuff
>  > that we get from such a campaign ?
>  >   
>  Shure. Why not?! Our artwork is fully Community based...
>  >  - The tools... we are promoting open source, but if we scroll through
>  > Deviant Art for instance, there is work which is distributed with a
>  > friendly license, but is generated in maybe non-friendly software, such
>  > as OS X platforms and eventually not GIMP/Inkscape stuff. Should we
>  > apply restrictions and check for headers and traces of non-oss in the
>  > submitted artwork? 
>  >   
>  There are no restrictions. There never was. You only have to provide
>  your work under cc-license and the sourcecode so that modifications can
>  be done from everyone. 
That is good. Wider audience.


>  >  - I would like submitters to place their artwork in place where
> FAS
>  > registration is demanded. In the rush of submitting their work, they
>  > will go through that step with some "pleasure". If such is done, with a
>  > single group apply (ex: design-team) and joining a mailling list, their
>  > approach as a potential Fedora contributor is basically done. This could
>  > be explored.
>  >   
>  This is how it works. 
Even better. More time to locate in other stuff and less people to
hassle.

>  >  - Ice breaking... People who might want to submit artwork will
> be for
>  > sure in contact with some of our people. For example we can probably
>  > forward them for a "help list" for this event or existing list such as
>  > design-team to clear some doubts. Doing such will place them directly in
>  > contact with Fedora Teams and will work as a Ice Breaker. This should
>  > probably make their possible integration in the future much easier, as
>  > they will start having friendly voices around.
>  >   
>  The Mailinglist helped always new contributors. Mostly it goes the open
>  way like this:
>  
>  $New_One: Hey, I'm new here. I have $cool_wallpaper and $cool_Iconset.
>  Do you like it?!
>  $Experienced_Fedora_Artworker: This looks pretty nice. Please take also
>  a look at $Fedora_Design_rules for proper dimensions/colors, etc. It
>  would be nice if you can put it into the $wiki or on to your
>  $fedora_people Account that we all can participate and improve it.
>  $New_One: Well, I'm not so experienced and I have done this with
>  $commercial_software. Is that ok?!
>  $Experienced_Fedora_Artworker: Not so much, because we do it the
>  OpenSource way (here: include $4-Foundations explanation, Opensource,
>  cc-licence, etc.) Please take a look at $Design_spin or
>  $Opensource_artwork_tools_links and try to adjust and edit your idea so
>  that it fits into that.
>  $New_One: Cool. I will do so. You guys and girls rock!
>  >  - Motivation - Fedora is supposed to be installed in 24 million
>  > computers worldwide (or so some say). This is a kick-ass distribution
>  > channel for artists. It should provide enough motivation for them to
>  > participate (if we are friendly with rules).
>  >   
>  Jep. Thats a good start for e.g. an article about Fedora Artwork or some
>  interview how it is made, etc. 
Do we have something done in this field? If not, how can I help with
it ?

>  >  - Marketing Involvement > I'm not sure how many people
> face this, but
>  > this is a typical marketing promotion campaign. It does require some
>  > work and free time. I'm making myself available for this and I can nag
>  > my employer to give me 5 hours weekly to work on this, plus my free
>  > time.
>  >   
>  Yeah, but I think 5-10h can be to a bit to little. In my experience if
>  such a campaign comes up its more like 3-4h a day / 7 days.
>  >  - Ambassadorial Work > I'm not sure on how this can be done, so some
>  > feedback from Ambassadors is welcome, and eventually we can see how we
>  > can help each other. Even between the involved departments/teams of
>  > Fedora in such, their work as moderators and promoters should be a must.
>  >   
>  I think we have proper channels for distribution there (FWN, planet,
>  Mailinglists, wiki). 
We can reach many people, but are we reaching the potential
contributors ? If so... good, cause there are other fields in which we
allocate more time.

>  
>  As I said in my first sentence: you can reach very much people.
>  
>  But you must IMHO also face the fact that it will be hard work and you
>  have to be very flexible all day and all night to communicate with
>  artists, the different Fedora Teams involved, organize Mailings on the
>  Mailinglist, meetings on IRC, structured timeplaning (I think here of
>  the good and nice Mails from John Poelestra which reminds us always on
>  the deadlines), be patient with soft souls and kick-ass to the lazy Ones 
I'm not much of a cop to be running after people with the beatstick :(
But we can arrange something, a structured roadmap will help.

>  - Designers and artists are often (if they are not working in a
>  $design_agency VERY lazy :-) ), promote infos to all kind of people in
>  all kinds of shades, etc. 


>  Because if you are not that way it can be bad not only for that
> small
>  project inside Fedora it could be very harmfull in the whole community!
>  If you are up to it I would say build a wikipage, make a timeplan (e.g.
>  beginning short before the Release Partys begin, because you can profit
>  from those events) and rock it... 
Makes sense. 

>  
>  mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards
>  Henrik Heigl - wonderer(a)fedoraproject.org
>  
>  PGP/GnuPG: 8237 D432 0616 D567 DBC6  3FE3 0D52 B374 F468 A5F0
>  
>  
>  
>   
-- 
Nelson Marques
Evil Clown (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm)

[Máirín Duffy]

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 21:26 +0200, wonderer wrote: 
>  There are no restrictions. There never was. You only have to provide
>  your work under cc-license and the sourcecode so that modifications can
>  be done from everyone. 
I think we need folks to sign the CLA too..

~m

[wonderer]

Am 22.04.2010 23:44, schrieb Máirín Duffy:
>  On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 21:26 +0200, wonderer wrote: 
>    
> > There are no restrictions. There never was. You only have to provide
> > your work under cc-license and the sourcecode so that modifications can
> > be done from everyone.
> >     
>  I think we need folks to sign the CLA too..
>     
Shure, that I missed to state out. Thanks Mo ;-)

FAS plus CLA_done.

mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards
Henrik Heigl - wonderer(a)fedoraproject.org

PGP/GnuPG: 8237 D432 0616 D567 DBC6  3FE3 0D52 B374 F468 A5F0