VT/FUDcon Blacksburg: Open Source Design Tools Workshop

[Máirín Duffy]

Hi Ben,

I spoke to the design team about the possibility of doing a workshop for
VT during FUDcon Blacksburg.

The amount of time and topics we can cover are going to vary depending
on who is able to obtain funding to attend:

- Klaatu (who is definitely coming accdg. to wiki) can teach Kdenlive,
GIMP, or Scribus
- Emily (who is still seeking funding accdg. to wiki) can teach
Inkscape, GIMP
- Elad (who is still seeking funding accdg. to wiki) can teach GIMP and
some Inkscape

I think because we only know for sure that Klaatu and I will be there,
we should do something modular so units can be swapped in or out
depending on attedance. E.g.:

A three hour workshop one day, with one hour each devoted to:

- Gimp
- Inkscape
- Kdenlive (Klaatu)

The person leading each tool's instruction will vary depending on who we
have showing up (except for Klaatu who we'll need to teach Kdenlive);
folks helping out who aren't leading the class can act as lab
assistants.

If there is a computer lab available, would it be possible to have the
software pre-installed? If we are expecting students to bring their own
laptops, then we should probably tack on an optional hour to the front
of the class to prep students' computers.

What do you think?

~m

[Ben Williams]

On 10/24/2011 10:11 AM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> Hi Ben,
>
> I spoke to the design team about the possibility of doing a workshop for
> VT during FUDcon Blacksburg.
>
> The amount of time and topics we can cover are going to vary depending
> on who is able to obtain funding to attend:
> Klaatu (who is definitely coming accdg. to wiki) can teach Kdenlive,
>
> GIMP, or Scribus
> Emily (who is still seeking funding accdg. to wiki) can teach
>
> Inkscape, GIMP
> Elad (who is still seeking funding accdg. to wiki) can teach GIMP and
>
> some Inkscape
>
> I think because we only know for sure that Klaatu and I will be there,
> we should do something modular so units can be swapped in or out
> depending on attedance. E.g.:
>
> A three hour workshop one day, with one hour each devoted to:
> Gimp
> Inkscape
> Kdenlive (Klaatu)
>
> The person leading each tool's instruction will vary depending on who we
> have showing up (except for Klaatu who we'll need to teach Kdenlive);
> folks helping out who aren't leading the class can act as lab
> assistants.
>
> If there is a computer lab available, would it be possible to have the
> software pre-installed? If we are expecting students to bring their own
> laptops, then we should probably tack on an optional hour to the front
> of the class to prep students' computers.
>
> What do you think?
>
> ~m
>
> design-team mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

no computer lab will be available but i can always make live DVDs for 
the participants to use with their computers so downloading will not be 
needed

I think I can say Emily will be an easy approval especially if she is 
commited to doing a workshop

myself i am up in the air about KDEnlive vs Scribus which do you think 
would be the best to the first time users (and what would help them 
become contributors faster?)

[Máirín Duffy]

On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 10:23 -0400, Ben Williams wrote:
> no computer lab will be available but i can always make live DVDs for 
> the participants to use with their computers so downloading will not be 
> needed

Okay that would be fantastic. We might just need a 15-20 minute period
before class starts just to make sure everything runs smoothly. Or maybe
push the workshop time to be 3.5 hours to allow for some software issue
resolution time up-front.
> I think I can say Emily will be an easy approval especially if she is 
> commited to doing a workshop

Okay cool.
> myself i am up in the air about KDEnlive vs Scribus which do you think 
> would be the best to the first time users (and what would help them 
> become contributors faster?)

I don't know about kdenlive because I haven't had much luck using it in
the past; Scribus tends to be crashy (and at least for me, totally
broken in F15) so I'm not sure it would be a good candidate for a
first-timer experience. (What do you think about kdenlive for
first-timers specifically, Klaatu?)

I think kdenlive would be a good candidate for helping folks become
contributors; one thing I think we desperately need are Fedora-specific
video reviews and tutorials. Having a way of editing and cutting video /
screencasts to post them online would be a huge help there. In fact, as
part of the course we could maybe run the video editing section at the
end, and have the students produce a screencast of what they learned in
Inkscape or Gimp and post it online at the end of class.

~m

[Elad]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 10:23 -0400, Ben Williams wrote:
> > no computer lab will be available but i can always make live DVDs for
> > the participants to use with their computers so downloading will not be
> > needed
>
> Okay that would be fantastic. We might just need a 15-20 minute period
> before class starts just to make sure everything runs smoothly. Or maybe
> push the workshop time to be 3.5 hours to allow for some software issue
> resolution time up-front.
> > I think I can say Emily will be an easy approval especially if she is
> > commited to doing a workshop
>
> Okay cool.
> > myself i am up in the air about KDEnlive vs Scribus which do you think
> > would be the best to the first time users (and what would help them
> > become contributors faster?)
>
> I don't know about kdenlive because I haven't had much luck using it in
> the past; Scribus tends to be crashy (and at least for me, totally
> broken in F15) so I'm not sure it would be a good candidate for a
> first-timer experience. (What do you think about kdenlive for
> first-timers specifically, Klaatu?)
>
> I think kdenlive would be a good candidate for helping folks become
> contributors; one thing I think we desperately need are Fedora-specific
> video reviews and tutorials. Having a way of editing and cutting video /
> screencasts to post them online would be a huge help there. In fact, as
> part of the course we could maybe run the video editing section at the
> end, and have the students produce a screencast of what they learned in
> Inkscape or Gimp and post it online at the end of class.

Sounds awesome, but I'd recommend pitivi instead of kdenlive, it's easier to
use...
but It won't start on my f16 machine right now. If the bug will be fixed, I
can make a class about it (if you want).
 "Using pitivi, recordmydesktop and gst-launch for screencasting".
> ~m
>
> design-team mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

[Klaatu]

I feel quite good about Kdenlive, as of their .8 release.  I think it's fine 
for first timers and yes, it would help a lot with getting people to generate 
video content.  I've been using it in production at the production institute i 
work at, and it's been great, and already i'm working on screencasts about 
blender and emacs and anything else that inspires me.

In short, yes it's gotten good, and yes I think it can inspire users to do 
cool stuff.

-- klaatu
> On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 10:23 -0400, Ben Williams wrote:
> > no computer lab will be available but i can always make live DVDs for
> > the participants to use with their computers so downloading will not be
> > needed
>
> Okay that would be fantastic. We might just need a 15-20 minute period
> before class starts just to make sure everything runs smoothly. Or maybe
> push the workshop time to be 3.5 hours to allow for some software issue
> resolution time up-front.
> > I think I can say Emily will be an easy approval especially if she is
> > commited to doing a workshop
>
> Okay cool.
> > myself i am up in the air about KDEnlive vs Scribus which do you think
> > would be the best to the first time users (and what would help them
> > become contributors faster?)
>
> I don't know about kdenlive because I haven't had much luck using it in
> the past; Scribus tends to be crashy (and at least for me, totally
> broken in F15) so I'm not sure it would be a good candidate for a
> first-timer experience. (What do you think about kdenlive for
> first-timers specifically, Klaatu?)
>
> I think kdenlive would be a good candidate for helping folks become
> contributors; one thing I think we desperately need are Fedora-specific
> video reviews and tutorials. Having a way of editing and cutting video /
> screencasts to post them online would be a huge help there. In fact, as
> part of the course we could maybe run the video editing section at the
> end, and have the students produce a screencast of what they learned in
> Inkscape or Gimp and post it online at the end of class.
>
> ~m
>
> design-team mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

- klaatu

[María Leandro]

Also not forget to talk about ffmeg and mencoder, usually you need to do
some conversions to have an easy-edition with any video-app.

I could help a bit with a Blender introduction; neither:

Mesh and Textures
Rigging and Animation
Games Engine.

If anyone needs a bit of more help with Gimp I would be happy to help on
that. Also, some things we made on Panamá was the fact of not only use labs,
rooms or formal places. Hallways, gardens and open spaces can also be used;
not only because increase the range area of people we can talk with, but
also because provides a less formal and more friendly environment where
Forums and FAQ rounds can be taken.

If there are no more rooms availables for this activities, I wouldn't mind
to have an outdoors (again, can be just outside the formal rooms) where FAQ
can be solved if there are some remaining doubts or people just want to
expand knowledge; or simply if there is not enough room.

[Elad Alfassa]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:48 PM, María Leandro wrote:
> Also not forget to talk about ffmeg and mencoder, usually you need to do
> some conversions to have an easy-edition with any video-app.
>
> Software patents sucks, and that's why we don't have ffmpeg and mencoder in

our repos. I don't think we should explain these tools in a Fudcon hackfest,
we want to encourage users and contributors to use free formats.
 You can use recordmydesktop to output an ogv file, and convert it to webm
(or any other format, if you installed the right gstreamer plugins, and you
really want to do it) with pitivi in the render stage (or, if you like the
command line, with gst-launch as well. Usually I use gst-launch to display
the image from the webcam on the screen during the screencast)
> I could help a bit with a Blender introduction; neither:
>
> Mesh and Textures
> Rigging and Animation
> Games Engine.
>
> If anyone needs a bit of more help with Gimp I would be happy to help on
> that. Also, some things we made on Panamá was the fact of not only use labs,
> rooms or formal places. Hallways, gardens and open spaces can also be used;
> not only because increase the range area of people we can talk with, but
> also because provides a less formal and more friendly environment where
> Forums and FAQ rounds can be taken.
>
> If there are no more rooms availables for this activities, I wouldn't mind
> to have an outdoors (again, can be just outside the formal rooms) where FAQ
> can be solved if there are some remaining doubts or people just want to
> expand knowledge; or simply if there is not enough room.
>
> --
> tatica
> Maria Gracia Leandro
> http://www.tatica.org
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
> LinuxUser= 440285  GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
>
> design-team mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

[Onyeibo Oku]

Blender can compile without ffmpeg and can output .ogg and .ogv. Eventually the artiste has to deal with these patented formats because of the end users. Its ugly but until there are large/widespread equipment supporting open formats ... Someone will eventually be encoding or decoding propriety.

---------------------------------------------
from [e-mail] :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Elad 
Sender: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:19 
To: Fedora Design Team
Reply-To: Fedora Design Team 
Subject: Re: [Design-team] VT/FUDcon Blacksburg: Open Source Design Tools
    Workshop

_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
[e-mail]
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

[Onyeibo Oku]

One of these days, I'll attend one of these conferences ... One of these days :)

---------------------------------------------
from [e-mail] :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Elad 
Sender: [e-mail]
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:19 
To: Fedora Design Team
Reply-To: Fedora Design Team 
Subject: Re: [Design-team] VT/FUDcon Blacksburg: Open Source Design Tools
    Workshop

_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
[e-mail]
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team

[María Leandro]

Onyeibo, maybe Fudcon NA or LATAM :P

I was refering with ffmpeg and mencoder more to videos, not to Blender. We
also need to deal with camcord formats and so far, there aren't too many
cameras with free formats.

Even if we know that some formats are incorrect; the only way to make
someone understand that there are options is showing them. Now, if we plan
to talk about design where people already know about design (with private
tools) then we need to show them that if their teachers ask them a PSD file,
Gimp can provide it... or if they need to deliver their homework as AI.
Inkscape can do it.

When we talk about formats we cannot apply the "don't" rule. See kids
example, if you forbid a kid to do something, is the first thing he will do;
if you explain him why he shouldn't and show him/her some examples and tell
him/her "hey, danger is here, but you can choose not to use it" would be
better.

This is my personal apreciation, obviously; I come from a Continent where
patents and formats hasn't restrictions but maybe a different aproach, more
friendly and less bossy :)

[Máirín Duffy]

On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 10:51 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
> This is my personal apreciation, obviously; I come from a Continent
> where patents and formats hasn't restrictions but maybe a different
> aproach, more friendly and less bossy :)

My guess is that it's fine to teach such things under your own name if
you're willing to bear the responsibility, but it's a bad idea to teach
things that are not legal in the US there under Fedora's name.

What Elad suggests is the responsible thing to do for this particular
event.

~m

[María Leandro]

Not teach, name, and I have no problems to do it :)

[Máirín Duffy]

On Mon, 2011-10-24 at 11:09 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
> Not teach, name, and I have no problems to do it :)

Promoting the usage of software only available outside of the Fedora
project repos will potentially cause issues for some of the folks
volunteering to teach.

Out of respect for them, I would like to make it clear that we will not
be doing that for this specific event.

If you would like to discuss this further, contact me off-list.

Thanks,
~m

[María Leandro]

Np then :)

I will keep shut up :)