Re: users design-team and more

[Máirín Duffy]

Hi,

1. The individuals added to the design pagure pre-date pagures ability to add FAS groups.
Everyone who has membership in the "design-team" FAS group has the correct privs
for the design team pagure. It is a duplicate effort to manage user perms in multiple
systems, since pagure got this feature we manage perms for pagure in FAS only and do not
manage perms on an individual level unless absolutely necessary anymore. If anyone on the
team doesn't have permissions they need and are blocked in any system please let me
know, I am happy to help. I haven't seen any complaints to this effect.

2. I don't think creating a separate icon theme is a good use of our limited time.
Several of us have Xaviju's Inkscape symbol libraries set up on our inkscapw installs,
which includes the gnome symbolic icons that are default in Fedora. I think it's
better to just use that.

3. I'm sorry but I do not understand the points you were trying to make in ticket 620.
Can you try rephrasing a different way? I can tell you my Fedora account is from 2004 so
wherever you pulled account age information from, it's not correct and perhaps needs
to be fixed. Let me know if you'd like me to look into that - I would need to know
what system gave you that false info.

~m

On December 9, 2018 8:49:02 AM EST, "Cătălin George Feștilă"
<catalinfest(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> Sorry I cannot be always on the team meeting:
> I try to supply this with my emails and comments:
>
> 1. Why can you add my account to https://pagure.io/design members?
> Is this a new political into design-team area?
>
> 2. see my comment on :
> https://pagure.io/design/issue/421
>
> 3. see my comment on:
> https://pagure.io/design/issue/620
>
> Thank you. Best regards. 
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

users design-team and more

[Cătălin George Feștilă]

1. "doesn't have permissions they need and are blocked" - I don't
anything
strange on my account but I'm a simple user and I cannot manage that issue.

Point to 2. and 3. "Can you try rephrasing a different way?"

Yes! I can do that. The rule for the design team is a branch of Legal (see:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines) and is the base
of any changes in Fedora distro.

"Fedora®, the Fedora word design, the Infinity design logo, Fedora Remix,
and the Fedora Remix word design, either separately or in combination, are
hereinafter referred to as "Fedora Trademarks" and are trademarks of Red
Hat, Inc. Except as provided in these guidelines, you may not use the
Fedora Trademarks or any confusingly similar mark as a trademark for your
product, or use the Fedora Trademarks in any other manner that might cause
confusion in the marketplace, including but not limited to in advertising,
on auction sites, or on software or hardware. Red Hat protects the Fedora
Trademarks on behalf of the entire Fedora community. Indeed, the law
obligates trademark owners to police their marks and prevent the use of
confusingly similar names by third parties. As the trademark owner, Red Hat
strives to use the Fedora Trademarks under the same guidelines as the rest
of the community."

" I can tell you my Fedora account is from 2004"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_(operating_system) then you know the
first old voting system and how has made :)







On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 3:23 AM Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  Hi,
>
>  1. The individuals added to the design pagure pre-date pagures ability to
>  add FAS groups. Everyone who has membership in the "design-team" FAS group
>  has the correct privs for the design team pagure. It is a duplicate effort
>  to manage user perms in multiple systems, since pagure got this feature we
>  manage perms for pagure in FAS only and do not manage perms on an
>  individual level unless absolutely necessary anymore. If anyone on the team
>  doesn't have permissions they need and are blocked in any system please let
>  me know, I am happy to help. I haven't seen any complaints to this effect.
>
>  2. I don't think creating a separate icon theme is a good use of our
>  limited time. Several of us have Xaviju's Inkscape symbol libraries set up
>  on our inkscapw installs, which includes the gnome symbolic icons that are
>  default in Fedora. I think it's better to just use that.
>
>  3. I'm sorry but I do not understand the points you were trying to make in
>  ticket 620. Can you try rephrasing a different way? I can tell you my
>  Fedora account is from 2004 so wherever you pulled account age information
>  from, it's not correct and perhaps needs to be fixed. Let me know if you'd
>  like me to look into that - I would need to know what system gave you that
>  false info.
>
>  ~m
>
>  On December 9, 2018 8:49:02 AM EST, "Cătălin George Feștilă" <
>  catalinfest(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >
> > Sorry I cannot be always on the team meeting:
> > I try to supply this with my emails and comments:
> >
> > 1. Why can you add my account to https://pagure.io/design members?
> > Is this a new political into design-team area?
> >
> > 2. see my comment on :
> > https://pagure.io/design/issue/421
> >
> > 3. see my comment on:
> > https://pagure.io/design/issue/620
> >
> > Thank you. Best regards.
> >
>
>  --
>  Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>

users design-team and more

[S.Kemter]

Hi,

as Mo decided to have this conversation on the mailing list, I moderated 
it in.

Am 10.12.18 um 19:21 schrieb Cătălin George Feștilă:
>  1. "doesn't have permissions they need and are blocked"
> - I don't 
>  anything strange on my account but I'm a simple user and I cannot 
>  manage that issue.
>
>  Point to 2. and 3. "Can you try rephrasing a different way?"
>
>  Yes! I can do that. The rule for the design team is a branch of Legal 
>  (see: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines) and 
>  is the base of any changes in Fedora distro.
>
>  "Fedora®, the Fedora word design, the Infinity design logo, Fedora 
>  Remix, and the Fedora Remix word design, either separately or in 
>  combination, are hereinafter referred to as "Fedora Trademarks" and 
>  are trademarks of Red Hat, Inc. Except as provided in these 
>  guidelines, you may not use the Fedora Trademarks or any confusingly 
>  similar mark as a trademark for your product, or use the Fedora 
>  Trademarks in any other manner that might cause confusion in the 
>  marketplace, including but not limited to in advertising, on auction 
>  sites, or on software or hardware. Red Hat protects the Fedora 
>  Trademarks on behalf of the entire Fedora community. Indeed, the law 
>  obligates trademark owners to police their marks and prevent the use 
>  of confusingly similar names by third parties. As the trademark owner, 
>  Red Hat strives to use the Fedora Trademarks under the same guidelines 
>  as the rest of the community."
>
>  " I can tell you my Fedora account is from 2004" 
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_(operating_system) then you know 
>  the first old voting system and how has made :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 3:23 AM Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>      Hi,
>
>      1. The individuals added to the design pagure pre-date pagures
>      ability to add FAS groups. Everyone who has membership in the
>      "design-team" FAS group has the correct privs for the design team
>      pagure. It is a duplicate effort to manage user perms in multiple
>      systems, since pagure got this feature we manage perms for pagure
>      in FAS only and do not manage perms on an individual level unless
>      absolutely necessary anymore. If anyone on the team doesn't have
>      permissions they need and are blocked in any system please let me
>      know, I am happy to help. I haven't seen any complaints to this
>      effect.
>
>      2. I don't think creating a separate icon theme is a good use of
>      our limited time. Several of us have Xaviju's Inkscape symbol
>      libraries set up on our inkscapw installs, which includes the
>      gnome symbolic icons that are default in Fedora. I think it's
>      better to just use that.
>
>      3. I'm sorry but I do not understand the points you were trying to
>      make in ticket 620. Can you try rephrasing a different way? I can
>      tell you my Fedora account is from 2004 so wherever you pulled
>      account age information from, it's not correct and perhaps needs
>      to be fixed. Let me know if you'd like me to look into that - I
>      would need to know what system gave you that false info.
>
>      ~m
>
>      On December 9, 2018 8:49:02 AM EST, "Cătălin George Feștilă"
>      <catalinfest(a)gmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>          Sorry I cannot be always on the team meeting:
>          I try to supply this with my emails and comments:
>          1. Why can you add my account to https://pagure.io/design members?
>          Is this a new political into design-team area?
>          2. see my comment on :
>          https://pagure.io/design/issue/421
>
>          3. see my comment on:
>          https://pagure.io/design/issue/620
>
>          Thank you. Best regards.
>
>
>      -- 
>      Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  design-team mailing list -- design-team(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to design-team-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]...

users design-team and more

[Máirín Duffy]

1. What are you trying to do with the ticket that you can't do right now? Are you in
the design-team FAS group?

2. 3. I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. The Fedora logo is a trademark,
yes, and we have trademark language around its usage. What is the point you are trying to
make about that relative to ticket 620?

~m

On December 10, 2018 7:21:49 AM EST, "Cătălin George Feștilă"
<catalinfest(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> 1. "doesn't have permissions they need and are blocked"
> - I don't
> anything
> strange on my account but I'm a simple user and I cannot manage that
> issue.
>
> Point to 2. and 3. "Can you try rephrasing a different way?"
>
> Yes! I can do that. The rule for the design team is a branch of Legal
> (see:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines) and is the
> base
> of any changes in Fedora distro.
>
> "Fedora®, the Fedora word design, the Infinity design logo, Fedora
> Remix,
> and the Fedora Remix word design, either separately or in combination,
> are
> hereinafter referred to as "Fedora Trademarks" and are trademarks of
> Red
> Hat, Inc. Except as provided in these guidelines, you may not use the
> Fedora Trademarks or any confusingly similar mark as a trademark for
> your
> product, or use the Fedora Trademarks in any other manner that might
> cause
> confusion in the marketplace, including but not limited to in
> advertising,
> on auction sites, or on software or hardware. Red Hat protects the
> Fedora
> Trademarks on behalf of the entire Fedora community. Indeed, the law
> obligates trademark owners to police their marks and prevent the use of
> confusingly similar names by third parties. As the trademark owner, Red
> Hat
> strives to use the Fedora Trademarks under the same guidelines as the
> rest
> of the community."
>
> " I can tell you my Fedora account is from 2004"
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_(operating_system) then you know
> the
> first old voting system and how has made :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 3:23 AM Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > 1. The individuals added to the design pagure pre-date pagures
> ability to
> > add FAS groups. Everyone who has membership in the "design-team" FAS
> group
> > has the correct privs for the design team pagure. It is a duplicate
> effort
> > to manage user perms in multiple systems, since pagure got this
> feature we
> > manage perms for pagure in FAS only and do not manage perms on an
> > individual level unless absolutely necessary anymore. If anyone on
> the team
> > doesn't have permissions they need and are blocked in any system
> please let
> > me know, I am happy to help. I haven't seen any complaints to this
> effect.
> >
> > 2. I don't think creating a separate icon theme is a good use of our
> > limited time. Several of us have Xaviju's Inkscape symbol libraries
> set up
> > on our inkscapw installs, which includes the gnome symbolic icons
> that are
> > default in Fedora. I think it's better to just use that.
> >
> > 3. I'm sorry but I do not understand the points you were trying to
> make in
> > ticket 620. Can you try rephrasing a different way? I can tell you my
> > Fedora account is from 2004 so wherever you pulled account age
> information
> > from, it's not correct and perhaps needs to be fixed. Let me know if
> you'd
> > like me to look into that - I would need to know what system gave you
> that
> > false info.
> >
> > ~m
> >
> > On December 9, 2018 8:49:02 AM EST, "Cătălin George Feștilă" <
> > catalinfest(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry I cannot be always on the team meeting:
> >> I try to supply this with my emails and comments:
> >>
> >> 1. Why can you add my account to https://pagure.io/design members?
> >> Is this a new political into design-team area?
> >>
> >> 2. see my comment on :
> >> https://pagure.io/design/issue/421
> >>
> >> 3. see my comment on:
> >> https://pagure.io/design/issue/620
> >>
> >> Thank you. Best regards.
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > 
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

users design-team and more

[Pierre-Yves Chibon]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 08:15:10AM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
>     2. 3. I'm sorry, but I still don't understand. The Fedora
> logo is a
>     trademark, yes, and we have trademark language around its usage. What is
>     the point you are trying to make about that relative to ticket 620? 
I'm also really quite confused, but I wonder if the point that is trying to be
made is that we can't change the logo because of the legal surrounding it.
Which would be a valid point if the person working on changing the logo were not
allowed, also from a legal perspective, to do it.

In other words: the logo is protected right, but the design team is definitely
the one that is allowed to change it (it is basically the only team that is
allowed to do so).


Hoping this helps,
Pierre

users design-team and more

[Matthew Miller]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 02:21:49PM +0200, Cătălin George Feștilă wrote:
>  Yes! I can do that. The rule for the design team is a branch of Legal
> (see:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines) and is the base
>  of any changes in Fedora distro. 
Yes, that is true. Note
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#Use_by_the_Fedo...,
which says:

  Red Hat enlists the assistance of the Fedora Council (hereinafter
  "Council") to oversee the trademark guidelines to ensure compliance by the
  community. The Council may grant permission for uses as explained below.
  The Council serves as the first line of mediation when questions of use
  arise.

I am on the Fedora Council and the Council is in favor of this work, for the
reasons we've enumerated, and I asked Design to look at doing the actual
design work, since... that's where the design expertise is.




-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

users design-team and more

[Gleb Vassiljev]

Hi!

>  In other words: the logo is protected right, but the design team is
> definitely 
the one that is allowed to change it (it is basically the only team that
is
allowed to do so).

I'm not on the design team, but I thought it doesn't legally prohibits me from
participating in the logo refresh issue on pagure. Unless the openness ethos of Fedora
Project is something to go by. Tell me if I'm wrong about this, but that was my
interpretation anyway, I will stop participating if it is the case. 
I think so far only one image posted by me was removed there, ibm styled logo image, the
joke which redhatters seemingly didn't appreciate (okay then).

What this got me thinking is that I shared svg on fedorapeople site and it would be
unfortunate if logo suggestions appeared in search engines and potentially used by
bloggers unknowingly of the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines 

So I added https://fedorapeople.org/~ojn/robots.txt to prohibit the crawling of those
images. Maybe this could be good tip if anyone does the same.

cheers
//Gleb