September 2014 - desktop - Fedora mailing-lists

Fedora 21 Alpha validation test work
by Adam Williamson 23 Jan '15

23 Jan '15

Hi, folks. So, we're scheduled for Alpha TC1 tomorrow. We had a nice happy co-operative plan where QA and the WGs would collaborate on revising the release validation test process for Fedora.next... ...which, well, didn't really happen. As of this morning we were nowhere near having a viable validation process. So I went for plan B: I spent today more or less pulling the entire thing out of my ass. It's a bit rough around the edges, but I think we more or less have something workable now. I have skipped the draft stage for a lot of documents just in the interest of having something vaguely workable in time for TC1; of course, the pages can be revised as much as necessary as we work with them. It's a bit hard to remember everything I've done, but we now have a draft Alpha Release Criteria page which should cover all release-blocking media, which for now I'm assuming includes the Workstation live media, Server minimal and offline install media, Cloud and ARM disk images, and possibly some kind of generic network install image. That draft is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_F21_Alpha_criteria and is based on the stuff from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_server_release_criteria , https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Adamwill/Draft_workstation_release_crit… and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Roshi/QA/Cloud_Docs/Cloud_Alpha_Release… , plus some adjustments to the templates that handle the preamble. We have a new validation matrix, for Server product-specific tests: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Server_validation_results_template The Desktop matrix has been adjusted to cover - not quite elegantly, but at least cover - both the Workstation product and the KDE spin: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Desktop_validation_results_template The Base matrix has been extended to add a couple of new test cases that came out of the Product criteria drafting process, but actually aren't really product specific, and has had its columns adjusted to be product-y: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Base_validation_results_template The installation matrix has similarly had a couple of new criteria wedged in, but much more importantly, I ripped the netinst, DVD and live image 'sanity test' sections and replaced them with an ARM-style table where a single 'generic' test case is run against several images on several platforms - that's the "Default boot and install" section, so please cast an eye over it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Fedora_21_Install_Results_Template and I made a small change to the release validation test event SOP to list the server matrix as one to create: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/SOP_Release_Validation_Test_Event Here are links to all (I think) of the new test cases I had to write as I went along: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Boot_default_install https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_kickstart_user_creation https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_base_service_manipulation https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_base_selinux https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Server_firewall_default https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_kickstart_firewall https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Server_cockpit_default The following test cases already existed, but are newly included in the release validation process (they were written for test days): https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_FreeIPA_realmd_join https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_realmd_join_kickstart https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_realmd_join_server There are still quite a few i's to dot and t's to cross. There are some release criteria and test cases that explicitly reference 'the DVD' image that will need to be adjusted. We need to apply the 'associated release criterion' template to all the new test cases, and probably clean up some categorizations. Various other process documentation pages may need to be updated, we'll have to check through all of them. But I think now we at least have the broad strokes of what's needed for .next validation testing. All feedback on the above changes is of course welcome! Please do cast your eye over and point out anything I missed, anything that looks silly, any possible improvements and so on. Remember, though, this is really *test process* design: we're not actually doing product design here, if you think there are issues with the Fedora.next changes themselves, that goes to the WGs or FESCo. As far as this work is concerned, we're just trying to test the new Products as they're designed (all of the above is based off of the Product PRDs and tech specs). I'll take time tomorrow to do some polishing, and of course look at any and all feedback on the stuff I did today. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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NTP switch in gnome-control-center is broken
by Michael Catanzaro 19 Nov '14

19 Nov '14

Hi, Let's decide what to do about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1136905 Long story short: timedated no longer supports NTP clients other than timesyncd (the new systemd NTP client). Oversimplifying, the chrony developers say that chrony is better than timesyncd, and the systemd developers say that timesyncd is better than chrony. We need to remove chrony from the default install and figure out what to do for users upgrading to F21 (if we do not uninstall chrony, the switch will be broken), or patch out the change to timedated, or build systemd without timedated and provide our own implementation of it, or patch gnome-control-center. None of these seem like particularly good options. Removing chrony seems like an easy solution, but I'm not sure how we could handle upgrades without hurting users who don't want chrony to be removed. Michael

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systemd-networkd and network management plans
by Rahul Sundaram 22 Oct '14

22 Oct '14

Hi For a long time, NetworkManager handled only wifi and simpler connection needs and although it now has support for bridging, bonding etc, it seems not integrated with GNOME very much. Meanwhile, systemd-networkd handles a lot more of that but doesn't handle wifi (yet?) and I am not sure what the plans are between NM and systemd-networkd to avoid code duplication. Do we still ship the older network scripts in Fedora workstation? What are the plans to integrate systemd-networkd if any? What is the future of NM? Rahul

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"Package sets" release criterion: what to do with it?
by Adam Williamson 15 Oct '14

15 Oct '14

Hi, folks. I'm checking the release criteria again for Fedora.next compatibility, and there's an Alpha criterion with obvious issues: "Package sets When doing a graphical install using the dedicated installer images, the installer must be able to install each of the release blocking desktops, as well as the minimal package set. " This was obviously written to the world where we had generic installer images - the DVD, and intentionally-generic netinsts. We do not have those things any more. Do we want to dump this criterion entirely, or is there any of it we would like to keep? For instance, would we consider it 'release blocking' functionality for you to be able to do some/any of the above from the Server and/or Workstation network install images *after configuring the repos manually*? Particularly, the minimal installation? I'm not sure F21 as currently conceived would offer an avenue for doing an interactive minimal installation. Basically, it comes down to: do we want to have a blessed method for doing a network install of KDE and/or minimal? If so, do we want to block releases on it? Thanks! -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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Beta / Final release criteria for Workstation
by Adam Williamson 14 Oct '14

14 Oct '14

Hi, folks. I wanted to ask if you envisage a need for release criteria for Workstation at Beta (or Final) over and above those that already exist for 'desktop' stuff. Areas I notice: SSSD is listed in the tech spec. We have server-side requirements for FreeIPA in the Server product; do we want to formulate client-side requirements? We don't really have criteria relating to a11y or complex input methods; this isn't Workstation-y in particular, but something that might be interesting? Appearance is something we'd want to enforce if it were actually done, but I get the impression the Qt variant of Adwaita isn't actually written yet. Functional requirements for the 'core apps' - we have requirements for graphical updating (but not package install), web browser, and terminal in the current criteria, but not for text editor, file manager, Boxes, or 'developer assistant'. Do remember that anything we write in the release criteria is something we expect to enforce: if you don't actually want the release to be delayed if it's not done, best not to have a criterion for it. More aspirational 'to-do' or 'it'd be good if...' lists can be handled somewhere else, I don't know/care where, but not in the criteria :) Thanks folks! -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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[PATCH] Move captive portal to fedora-release-workstation
by Josh Boyer 06 Oct '14

06 Oct '14

Pretty much what we discussed on IRC yesterday. Anyone have problems with me committing this today? josh diff --git a/gnome-shell.spec b/gnome-shell.spec index a085076..94e284d 100644 --- a/gnome-shell.spec +++ b/gnome-shell.spec @@ -102,8 +102,6 @@ Requires: gdm-libs%{?_isa} Requires: clutter%{?_isa} >= %{clutter_version} # needed for settings items in menus Requires: control-center -# needed for captive portal support -Requires: NetworkManager-config-connectivity-fedora %description GNOME Shell provides core user interface functions for the GNOME 3 desktop, diff --git a/fedora-release.spec b/fedora-release.spec index 333875f..1d7db6b 100644 --- a/fedora-release.spec +++ b/fedora-release.spec @@ -72,6 +72,8 @@ Requires: fedora-release = %{version}-%{release} Conflicts: fedora-release-cloud Conflicts: fedora-release-server Conflicts: fedora-release-standard +# needed for captive portal support +Requires: NetworkManager-config-connectivity-fedora %description workstation Provides a base package for Fedora Workstation-specific configuration files to

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xfce desktop
by josé Carlos 26 Sep '14

26 Sep '14

Hello everybody I'm a brazilian guy, and it's my first time in a discution list. So, i already apologize for my english rss I am coming of debian based distro, so, i am adapting myself to fedora'usability and package manager. My doubt is how can i install xfce 4.12 in fedora 20(i install xfce 4.10 and i tried upgrade so i could not. ps: my fedora is fedora spin mate Thanks! *José Carlos F. Jr*

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Workstation WG Meeting Minutes 2014-09-24
by Josh Boyer 24 Sep '14

24 Sep '14

======================================= #fedora-meeting: Workstation WG meeting ======================================= Meeting started by jwb at 15:00:55 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-09-24/workstation.2014… . Meeting summary --------------- * init (jwb, 15:00:55) * GNOME Classic in default install (jwb, 15:05:22) * AGREED: leave Classic included by default. Work with QA to ensure it gets properly tested (jwb, 15:09:09) * Target image size (jwb, 15:09:59) * AGREED: Workstation image size has a soft limit of 1.5GB for F21/F22 (jwb, 15:32:35) * ACTION: kalev to produce a report of additions/removals compared to F20 for review (jwb, 15:32:56) * WG member re-affirmation (jwb, 15:33:09) * present WG members all wish to remain on the WG. jwb to follow up with absent members (jwb, 15:41:36) * discuss open seat on the list (jwb, 15:41:41) * CUPS (jwb, 15:42:08) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/workstation/ticket/8 (jwb, 15:42:12) * AGREED: enable CUPS on demand in Workstation (jwb, 15:46:03) * ACTION: kalev and mclasen_ to follow up with twaugh on implementation (jwb, 15:46:18) * open floor (jwb, 15:47:36) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1337#comment:12 (juhp_, 16:03:00) * ACTION: jwb to follow up with kalev on moving the dependency for capitve portal to fedora-release-workstation instead of gnome-shell (jwb, 16:06:40) Meeting ended at 16:08:23 UTC. Action Items ------------ * kalev to produce a report of additions/removals compared to F20 for review * kalev and mclasen_ to follow up with twaugh on implementation * jwb to follow up with kalev on moving the dependency for capitve portal to fedora-release-workstation instead of gnome-shell Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jwb * jwb to follow up with kalev on moving the dependency for capitve portal to fedora-release-workstation instead of gnome-shell * kalev * kalev to produce a report of additions/removals compared to F20 for review * kalev and mclasen_ to follow up with twaugh on implementation * jwb to follow up with kalev on moving the dependency for capitve portal to fedora-release-workstation instead of gnome-shell * mclasen * kalev and mclasen_ to follow up with twaugh on implementation * mclasen_ * kalev and mclasen_ to follow up with twaugh on implementation * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jwb (104) * elad661 (42) * bitlord (35) * mclasen_ (32) * kalev (26) * otaylor (23) * juhp_ (21) * sgallagh (21) * stickster (13) * drago01 (8) * zodbot (7) * cwickert (5) * aday (4) * bochecha (2) * orc_fedo_ (1) * ltinkl (0) * ryanlerch (0) * juhp (0) * cschalle (0) * mclasen (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Captive Authentication feature in f21
by Ryan Lerch 23 Sep '14

23 Sep '14

Hi all, Been trying out F21 on my new laptop, and saw the nifty new captive auth feature when logging into wifi at starbucks this morning. I did notice that the name of the application (as it appears in the gmenu up near the activities button) is "Captive Authentication". To a new user, that may not know exactly what captive auth is, this may be worrying or confusing -- "what about my authentication is being captured?" Perhaps changing this to something like "Network Login" work work better? cheers, ryanlerch

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Workstation WG 2014-09-24 Meeting Agenda
by Josh Boyer 23 Sep '14

23 Sep '14

Hi All, Meeting tomorrow. Agenda is below. If you have anything to add/change, please let me know. * GNOME Classic in default install? * Target image size? - See libreoffice thread(s) - Alpha is 1.3GB * WG member re-affirmation and replacing Lukáš Tinkl - I have confirmed with Lukáš that he is OK with stepping down josh

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Some suggestions for Marketing notes for FW 21
by Christian Schaller 22 Sep '14

22 Sep '14

Hi everyone, Here are some draft notes I prepared to try to help our marketing team build up some release notes and press material on the Fedora Workstation release. Already sent it to the Working Group members, but I thought I send it out to these two lists for further review and suggestions. Christian -------------------- Fedora Workstation Marketing The Fedora Workstation is a new take on desktop development from the Fedora Community. Instead of seeing ourselves primarily as passive packagers of any software we manage to find we are now instead picking the best components out there and doing a lot of of work to integrate and polish them, presenting you with something you will feel is a much more polished and targeted product than what you seen before from the Fedora community. We want our desktop operating system to solve your problems, not be your problem. Easy access to all your Software The cornerstone of the Fedora Workstation is our Software installer application, or our appstore if you like.. It provides a modern and fast interface for finding all any kind of desktop software for your Fedora Workstation. In Fedora 21 we are using the new hawkeye backend which will ensure a responsive and fast user experience and our packagers have worked ardently with the relevant upstreams to greatly improve the amount of applications that provide the needed information to populate the Software installer. Improvements to the Terminal application We want to make sure developers have a great experience and we do know that a strong terminal application is a core part of that. Due to this we have worked to integrate a set of new features in the terminal like support for transparent backgrounds, automatic title updates which will make identifying different terminals easier, allow you do easily toggle all system keybindings on and off in the terminal and in the GNOME desktop overview you can search for terminal running processes by name. Experimental Wayland Support We have a usable Wayland session available in Fedora Workstation 21. Wayland is the new and exciting technology that will power the linux desktops going forward. With Fedora Workstation 21 we offer you a unique opportunity to trial this technology and see how well your applications work with it or to start experimenting with making your applications take advantage of some of the new abilities Wayland will enable. A lot of the core Wayland development has been done by Fedora Workstation contributors so this is your chance to try out this new exciting technology straight from the source. Developer Assistant As a developer we recognize that you need to be able to set up a host of different development environments in an easy and straightforward manner. In Fedora Workstation we offer the Developer Assistant to help with this task. With the aid of the Developer Assistant you can quickly set up development environments for a long range of language runtimes and IDEs. And thanks to its integration of the new Fedora Software Collections multiple versions of the different languages are available to fit with your business requirements. Ease of installation We want the installation of the Fedora Workstation to be as straightforward and simple as possible. For the Fedora Workstation we have distilled this down to selecting the layout of your physical media and then pressing install. Or if you want it even easier just let the installer choose the disk layout for you. We also realize that the future of installations is not optical disks which is why we ship with an easy to use tool for creating a bootable USB stick. Toolkit integration You have a job to do and want to use whatever tools that let you get that job done. The Fedora Workstation recognize that which is why we have been hard at work making sure that applications using as many toolkits as possible feel as native as possible in your Fedora Workstation. Be that the new themeing for Qt which makes applications written using that toolkit feel native or the ability to run HTML5 webservices in a chromeless window, making them feel like a natural extension to your desktop. HiDPI Support Technology never stands still and as a software developer you are used to using the best technology available. Which is why we have spent a lot of time and effort on making sure that we support the new generation of HiDPI displays well. Phoronix recently called our desktop the best of HiDPI. Exciting roadmap This Fedora Workstaiton release is not the end, it is the beginning of a new era for Fedora on the desktop. We have an exciting roadmap lined up aiming to bring a range of exciting new technologies to the linux desktop like containers, smarter virtual machines, better development tools, more web integration and so on. So if you want to be part of the future of the linux desktop be sure to get on board now!

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Minimize/maximize buttons
by Michael Catanzaro 20 Sep '14

20 Sep '14

Hi all, Every app with a header bar on the F21 live CD has minimize and maximize buttons. This seems unintentional. I'm not sure where to file a bug; anyone know which component is at fault? Michael

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Do we really need LibreOffice installed by default?
by Elad Alfassa 19 Sep '14

19 Sep '14

Hello all. If we don't install libreoffice by default we'd save around ~500MB (of libreoffice itself and it's various java dependencies) from the live media. This means less strain on mirrors, and that people will get their media faster (even if you have a really fast connection - smaller downloads finish sooner). Also, since we have an application installer these days, people who need an office suite can easily install it. I suggest we remove it from the default install. -- -Elad Alfassa.

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Appdata coverage update
by Ryan Lerch 18 Sep '14

18 Sep '14

Just a quick update on the current coverage status for appdata in Fedora 21. We are currently sitting at 36.9% [1] of applications that have an appdata file with a description. However, we do have a bunch of appdata files that have been created in seperate branches that have not been merged yet (just waiting for a few more in the list of games we are targeting [2]), that should get this number up near 47% coverage in the next week or so. cheers, ryanlerch [1] - http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/screenshots/f21/status.html [2] - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/AppdataImprovement/Games#How_to_…

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tested KDE in Fedora Workstation 21 alpha rc1
by Jens-Ulrik Petersen 18 Sep '14

18 Sep '14

Hi, Following up to my action item from last week's WG meeting, I installed KDE into a Workstation install (using "yum install @kde-desktop"). The installation went fine and the KDE desktop seems to be working well (I tested with an Fedora Workstation 21 Alpha RC1 netinstall done yesterday). I went through the Fedora i18n Test Day testcases on KDE. BTW I did the original WS net install in a 1.5 GB x86_64 guest (which took about 2 hours). KDE seemed to hang a few times for me initially, but I didn't see any more hangs after changing the guest to use 2GB FWIW. I am not an expert KDE user so there are surely plenty of KDE areas I haven't tested: so more testing by the KDE SIG, QA, and the community is of course most welcome. Jens

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F21 Workstation System Requirements - i686
by Chris Murphy 17 Sep '14

17 Sep '14

Will/should there be separate or slightly more qualified requirements for i686? Either hardware 3D support, or an age bracket? I ask because I dug out a 10 year old Dell laptop from storage and it meets the current requirements: 2GB RAM, 60GB drive, 1.7GHz CPU. But with AMD RV250/M9 GL FireGL 9000/Radeon 9000, the journal reports: gnome-session-is-accelerated: No hardware 3D support. While gdm comes up, gnome-shell crashes (this is TC6). With my QA hat on, I'd say if it worked, I'd use it against some of the test cases; the fact it doesn't and i686 is (probably?) going away soon anyway makes me think "if it works, bonus; if it doesn't, give up while you still can" sort of attitude. Chris Murphy

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New look for Anaconda?
by Jiri Eischmann 17 Sep '14

17 Sep '14

Hi, I wonder if there are any plans to improve the look of Anaconda for F21 Workstation. In the state it is now it doesn't look very professional and I would even say that the Fedora "logo" in the left blue pane violates the Fedora logo usage guidelines. Anaconda in RHEL 7 looks much better, like something that is finished. It'd be great if we could achieve something similar in Fedora Workstation, just aligned with the design and colors of the workstation product. Jiri

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qt theming status
by Matthias Clasen 17 Sep '14

17 Sep '14

I took the action last week to find out the status of our qt theming task. Here is what I found out: Martin, who is working on this, has a copr with his work-in-progress here: http://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/mbriza/qt-gtk/ I haven't been able to try this with a qt app yet, maybe somebody else has more luck than me. Martin is not sure if his work will be complete enough to be useful in time for F21.

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Fedora 21 Alpha RC testing request
by Adam Williamson 16 Sep '14

16 Sep '14

Hi, folks! In case anyone didn't see it elsewhere, we put 21 Alpha RC1 out for testing today. It still has some kinks, but we really need to make sure we have a reasonably complete test run on it and catch any remaining blockers. If folks could help test particularly in their own areas of interest, that'd be great. The images can be found at https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/21_Alpha_RC1/ - it's a fairly big tree and the folder layout is still a bit of a work-in-progress, sorry if you have to click around until you find something. The test pages are: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_21_Alpha_RC1_Install https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_21_Alpha_RC1_Base https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_21_Alpha_RC1_Desktop https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_21_Alpha_RC1_Server to test, basically, pick a test case from (one of) the table(s), run it, and edit your result into the appropriate table cell using the {{result}} macro - short version, {{result|pass|adamwill}} is a pass, {{result|warn|adamwill|123456}} is a warning (aka the compromise between 'pass' and 'fail' - use it for things that aren't exactly critical fails but are worth noting), and {{result|fail|adamwill|654321}} is a failure. The number should be a Bugzilla bug #. Please file bugs for failures; if the bug's serious, propose it as a release blocker by setting it to block the bug 'AlphaBlocker' or using the blocker bug webapp at https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/propose_bug . Each test case has a link to the release criteria that it enforces at the top - you can refer to this in proposing the blocker. But please err on the side of nominating bugs as blockers, we'd rather have a few to reject than miss one we should have blocked for. Rejections do not go on your permanent record :) The test cases have milestones listed alongside them in the tables. Do the tests marked 'Alpha' first, then the ones marked 'Beta', then the ones marked 'Final', and the ones with no milestone come last (these are optional tests that aren't usually expected to encounter release blocking issues). Later composes may follow - please do help test those too. We need to run all the Alpha tests against at least one of the release composes (ideally we'd run them all against all the RCs). Thanks a lot folks! -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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The upgrade story
by Rahul Sundaram 16 Sep '14

16 Sep '14

Hi What is the plan for supporting upgrades from one release to another? fedup still doesn't have a GUI and GNOME Software doesn't seem to have any integration for prompting users to perform the upgrade when a new release is available. Rahul

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Workstation rsyslog installed and running by default?
by Chris Murphy 14 Sep '14

14 Sep '14

Fedora 20 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog Fedora 21 Workstation package list http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Technical_Specification#Package_l… rsyslog rsyslog-mmjsonparse Fedora-Live-Workstation-i686-21_Alpha-TC7.iso # systemctl status syslog ● rsyslog.service - System Logging Service Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/system/rsyslog.service; enabled) Active: active (running) since Sun 2014-09-14 13:46:22 MDT; 1min 18s ago Main PID: 466 (rsyslogd) CGroup: /system.slice/rsyslog.service └─466 /usr/sbin/rsyslogd -n Is this intentional? I'm not finding anything on desktop@ discussing returning to rsyslog enabled by default. I know Server product does want it enabled by default, so maybe Workstation inadvertently inherited it because of that? Chris Murphy

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LibreOffice Math
by Michael Catanzaro 12 Sep '14

12 Sep '14

Hi all, If we choose to include LibreOffice in Workstation, I'd like to include LibreOffice Math as well. LibreOffice Math was not included in Fedora 20, which is really confusing if you're trying to add a formula to a document. To do this, go to Insert -> Object -> Formula in Writer. This works in other distros, but in Fedora the menu item is insensitive, without any explanation why. You can't install it from the software center, probably since we have the desktop file set to NoDisplay=true since we don't want it showing up as a separate application in the overview. I don't know if it's included by default in F21 or not, but it was missing from F20 which is why I ask. Michael

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Release notes have a launcher - maybe we should remove that
by Elad Alfassa 11 Sep '14

11 Sep '14

Hello all. As you may know, we ship a launcher called "Release Notes" in our default install. During the F18 Launcher Purge[1] Allan asked the docs team to remove it from the default install, but his request was rejected[2]. But now we have guidelines[3], and the guidelines state: * An "app" is an application as defined by the GNOME 3 HIG[4] * An app launcher SHOULD Launch software that is an actual app - see the GNOME 3 HIG for the exact definition And the release notes, well, are not an app (per the definition in the GNOME 3 HIG). Moreover, I don't really think users expect to find release notes inside the OS itself - no other OS does that. We can link to the release notes in our download page, our help page on the website (which will be linked from start.fpo once I finish implementing the new designs we got), and a bookmark in Firefox (pointing to a local copy of the release notes) - so the release notes won't exactly be invisible or inaccessible. We could also go the extra step (of craziness) and copy the release note PDF into the liveuser's Document directory (in the kickstart), where it will be indexed by tracker and thus accessible via documents and people who search for "release notes" in the shell would be able to find it (why would they do that? I don't know). It's possible, but for me it seems extremely crazy and unnecessary. While I'm aware what I'm suggesting here might be a little bit controversial, I do think it is something which we should consider. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design/F18_Launcher_Purge [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=846316 [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Elad/Draft_app_guidelines [4] https://people.gnome.org/~tobiasmue/hig3/application-basics.html -- -Elad Alfassa.

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UX Issues with default install (Gnome)
by Adam Batkin 11 Sep '14

11 Sep '14

Since it was mentioned during the Workstation WG meeting that there may be some "developer focused UX testing", I figured this was a good time to point out a few things that I think would make the out-of-the-box developer (or any other user) experience better. I'm trying really hard to make Gnome work for me, but I'm constantly tempted to go back to XFCE. I would much rather stick with defaults (Gnome), since I know it will always be better supported and offer better integration. Note that I'm now running the F21 channel (pre-alpha I guess you would call it) so everything is up-to-date - Gnome 3.13.91). * Lack of contrast between focuses and non-focused windows I think this may have actually gotten worse since 3.12 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735779 * Switching to a virtual desktop loses active window focus https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735135 * Keyboard shortcuts launch apps in background I have the same exact problem with a hotkey to launch konsole https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=699685 * Lots and lots of focus issues. I found a bunch of random Gnome Bugzillas and I don't know which ones exactly describe the problems that I experience, but let's just say that window focus behavior is broken. For example, in Firefox, I open the About Firefox dialog and when I dismiss it (either by hitting Esc or clicking the X) the main Firefox window no longer has the focus (no window does!) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=645035 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678320 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=708254 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=732762 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=690693 Together the above issues make the user experience pretty much unusable. Random and unpredictable focus changes/problems, coupled with the inability to easily identify the focused window makes it impossible to know what will happen when I press a key. Other things that I think would help, but aren't deal-breakers: * Gratuitous use of white-space on UI components As a developer, I want as much "stuff" to fit on my screen as possible and lots of extra spacing around widgets is wasting real estate https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=659647 * Make it possible to not display the shield https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=696330 And a few more things with no Bugzillas that I know of (these problems mostly arose when I upgraded, since Frippery stopped working, and rather than fixing it, I decided to use the built-in Applications Menu and Window List plugins, since they ship with Fedora): * The Window List is great, except for two problems and one suggestion: * Again, active vs inactive window has almost no contrast difference * It always shows windows from all virtual desktops. Not only is this undesired behavior, but if a window is set to "Always on Visible Workspace" then it will show the window "n" times where n is the number of workspaces * It would be great if the Window list could show the actual tray icons (instead of a count) as well as the actual virtual desktops * I wish the clock could go back into the corner (I use lots of other computers and on all other computers the clock is in the corner, so my eye always goes there automatically) * I wish there was an easy way to get an icon bar along the top bar (like Frippery Panel Favorites) * I'd prefer horizontal instead of vertical virtual desktops Sure, most of those issues could be solved by using Frippery (though the new Window List and Applications Menu is much prettier) but shipping useful tools out of the box would be better than having to find and install an addon every time. It would also be good if the Return to Monitor extension would be updated and shipped as part of Fedora (https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/842/return-to-monitor/) since many fullscreen apps cause all of the windows to rearrange themselves on multi-head setups. I know that's a lot, but I'm pretty sure that everything above constitute basic UX needs. Certainly XFCE (and for the most part, KDE, though that has other problems) (and also Windows and Mac) handle these situations nicely. I really think it would be beneficial to Fedora if the default desktop experience was able to handle this. Thanks, -Adam Batkin

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Workstation WG Meeting Minutes for 2014-09-10
by Josh Boyer 10 Sep '14

10 Sep '14

======================================= #fedora-meeting: Workstation WG meeting ======================================= Meeting started by jwb at 15:00:44 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-09-10/workstation.2014… . Meeting summary --------------- * init (jwb, 15:00:44) * Alpha status (jwb, 15:05:40) * gnome .91 update pushed to stable. should be in next compose (jwb, 15:10:39) * .92 update will contain bugfixes that came out of the GNOME test day (jwb, 15:13:15) * QT/KDE (jwb, 15:14:43) * ACTION: jwb or mclasen to follow up on QT theming (jwb, 15:17:42) * integrated way of installing KDE is out of scope for F21. groupinstall likely the best option (jwb, 15:31:19) * ACTION: juhp_ to try KDE install on Workstation and see how it does. more testers welcome (jwb, 15:31:35) * UX testing (jwb, 15:34:30) * ACTION: ryanlerch_ to work with langdon and mizmo on intial developer focused UX testing plans (jwb, 15:42:28) * Task list review (jwb, 15:48:28) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Tasklist (jwb, 15:48:33) * ACTION: jwb to move some unlanded items to F22 list in wiki (jwb, 15:54:00) * media (jwb, 16:00:25) * ACTION: cwickert to work out details of dual-arch workstation ambassador DVD on list (jwb, 16:14:30) * next Workstation meeting is Sept 24th. (jwb, 16:16:18) Meeting ended at 16:16:30 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jwb or mclasen to follow up on QT theming * juhp_ to try KDE install on Workstation and see how it does. more testers welcome * ryanlerch_ to work with langdon and mizmo on intial developer focused UX testing plans * jwb to move some unlanded items to F22 list in wiki * cwickert to work out details of dual-arch workstation ambassador DVD on list Action Items, by person ----------------------- * cwickert * cwickert to work out details of dual-arch workstation ambassador DVD on list * juhp * juhp_ to try KDE install on Workstation and see how it does. more testers welcome * juhp_ * juhp_ to try KDE install on Workstation and see how it does. more testers welcome * jwb * jwb or mclasen to follow up on QT theming * jwb to move some unlanded items to F22 list in wiki * langdon * ryanlerch_ to work with langdon and mizmo on intial developer focused UX testing plans * mclasen * jwb or mclasen to follow up on QT theming * ryanlerch * ryanlerch_ to work with langdon and mizmo on intial developer focused UX testing plans * ryanlerch_ * ryanlerch_ to work with langdon and mizmo on intial developer focused UX testing plans * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jwb (129) * cwickert (38) * mclasen (36) * juhp_ (25) * kalev (24) * ryanlerch_ (23) * dgilmore (12) * langdon (11) * satellit (9) * zodbot (7) * drago01 (7) * sgallagh (6) * otaylor (5) * laangdon (5) * satellit__e (1) * ltinkl (0) * ryanlerch (0) * juhp (0) * cschalle (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Workstation Meeting 2014-09-09
by Josh Boyer 10 Sep '14

10 Sep '14

Hi All, Below is an agenda for tomorrow's regularly scheduled WG meeting. As always, if you have something you'd like to add, please let me know. josh * Alpha status - TC6 status, pending fixes, etc * QT/KDE - We need to figure out the story for this for F21/F22 * UX testing - Ryan and Máirín have mentioned a few times that they are interested in doing some UX testing on Workstation * Task list review

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Re: Workstation Meeting 2014-09-10
by Josh Boyer 09 Sep '14

09 Sep '14

Sorry, date fail. The meeting is Wednesday 2014-09-10. josh On Sep 9, 2014 7:27 PM, "Josh Boyer" <jwboyer(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote: > > Hi All, > > Below is an agenda for tomorrow's regularly scheduled WG meeting. As > always, if you have something you'd like to add, please let me know. > > josh > > * Alpha status > - TC6 status, pending fixes, etc > > * QT/KDE > - We need to figure out the story for this for F21/F22 > > * UX testing > - Ryan and Máirín have mentioned a few times that they are > interested in doing some UX testing on Workstation > > * Task list review

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Cheese broken in F21
by Ankur Sinha 08 Sep '14

08 Sep '14

Hi, Just a heads up that cheese is broken in F21. It segfaults as soon as someone tries to take a photo. Bugs filed: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1133394 http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735285 -- Thanks, Warm regards, Ankur (FranciscoD) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Join Fedora! Come talk to us! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

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Memory usage i686 vs. x86_64
by Owen Taylor 08 Sep '14

08 Sep '14

I took an action item at this weeks Workstation Working Group meeting to look into what the relative memory usage is of i686 vs. x86_64 for the workstation image. Are there cases (such as VMs) where we would want to recommend i686 because it uses less memory. I did some very basic tests of this - I installed and booted the Fedora-Live-Workstation-{i686,x86_64}-21-Alpha-TC5.iso images in a VM and looked at the 'free -h' numbers after some light usage: VM Configuration ================ 20 GiB hard drive max, 4GiB memory, resolution 1024x768 (I used a 4GB VM to make sure that there would still be free memory throughout the experiment, and nothing would get paged out to swap or discarded.) Measurements ============ Bootup, login, open terminal i686 total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3.5G 700M 2.8G 9.5M 19M 297M -/+ buffers/cache: 383M 3.1G x86_64 total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3.9G 910M 3.0G 1.6M 18M 305M -/+ buffers/cache: 586M 3.3G Open firefox, log into facebook and gmail, maximize window i686 total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3.5G 960M 2.5G 10M 19M 354M -/+ buffers/cache: 586M 2.9G x86_64 total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3.9G 1.3G 2.6G 2.0M 20M 385M -/+ buffers/cache: 910M 3.0G Open libreoffice writer, maximize window, type a few characters (leaving firefox open) i686 total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3.5G 1.1G 2.4G 10M 21M 459M -/+ buffers/cache: 612M 2.9G x86_64 total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3.9G 1.4G 2.5G 2.3M 21M 487M -/+ buffers/cache: 929M 3.0G Conclusions =========== The i686 vs. x86_64 difference was larger than I expected. For actively in use pages, there seems to be a consistent ~50% expansion in memory usage from i686 to x86_64. Overall, the situation is better than this because the cache usage doesn't expand as much - there seems to be only a slight expansion in the size of cached pages. I suspect a user using Fedora day-to-day on a 2GB system is likely to have a better experience with an i686 userspace. If the user gets an extra 500GB of memory by using i686, that's likely going to outweigh any performance benefits of the 64-bit instruction set. If the user is just starting Fedora in a VM to try it out or to test something, it's less likely the difference will matter. Even for low memory systems, a problem with recommending i686 is that if the user later upgrades the memory on the system, they would have to reinstall. Caveats ======= I claim no generality to these numbers - different workloads have different mixes between raw data, pointers, and executable code - and also do not claim that the particular numbers are repeatable between different users or different points of time. (The use of my gmail and Facebook accounts as part of the test especially adds variability, but reflects what users are actually doing on the desktop.)

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Re: [RFC] non-KVM graphics/IO drivers in our default install media
by quickbooks office 06 Sep '14

06 Sep '14

Can we atleast have the following packages installed by default: dkms kernel-headers kernel-devel Then it is one less step of things to do for installing the VirtualBox guest additions. On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Liam <liam.bulkley(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sep 3, 2014 9:44 AM, "Elad Alfassa" <elad(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Matthias Clasen <mclasen(a)redhat.com> >> wrote: >> > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 09:21 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Briefly, 1) we aren't staffed for it, 2) it encourages crappy behavior >> >> on the part of the module authors by providing disincentive to getting >> >> it upstream, 3) it's a maintenance hassle, 4) we typically already >> >> have alternatives (this is particularly true in the case of virt), 5) >> >> it's yet another entry in an already rapidly expanding test matrix >> >> that has to be checked off (which goes back to item 1), etc etc. >> >> >> >> I consider myself to be fairly open to many things. Carrying >> >> virtualbox modules out-of-tree when the authors refuse to even submit >> >> them upstream for review and have no intention of ever doing so is not >> >> one of those things. This is one of the few items where I simply say >> >> no. >> > >> > Do I sense a possible conflict of interest here ? >> > >> > I think Alberto's argument that including such drivers will make it a >> > lot easier to try the workstation on popular virtualization solutions >> > carries some weight and deserves to be discussed, instead of rejected >> > out-of-hand. >> > >> > -- >> > desktop mailing list >> > desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop >> >> Well, I have used VirtualBox guest additions before, they break every >> time VirtualBox is updated (and you need to update and rebuild them) >> > For guests we control the versions via installs (not counting the recomposes > that were talked about to keep new installs up to date). All we'd need to do > is support ONE version of vb, and provide a dl link to THAT version. > As for these anecdotes about vb not working, the fact is ANY users we > acquire via this method are new users we may not have gotten otherwise. The > question is whether or not the work to support that single version of vb is > so great as to outweigh the potential of new users. > > > -- > desktop mailing list > desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop

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F21 Workstation System Requirements - Storage
by Elad Alfassa 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

Hi all. I did a netinstall of F21 (it worked) and the resulting installed system was around 4GB. So, 4GB for base system, plus 2GB for updates (there are a lot of them during the lifetime of the product), and 4GB for extra headroom (user apps, content) - that comes out as 10GB minimal. So I'd say 10GB minimal, 25GB recommended, standard "more is better" clause, and maybe add something about the fact we come with "batteries included" - ie. we have a full office suite and such, to justify the space needs. For the record, the biggest packages we install by default are: 252MB libreoffice-core 108MB firefox 97MB java-1.8.0-openjdk-headless 76MB webkitgtk4 68MB PyXB There's probably some room for minor optimization, for those who care about the live image size (I care, but trimming it is hard now that we ship with so many stuff "we can't do without). I don't think we can do much to reduce the final installed size - I think 10GB minimal is reasonable. -- -Elad Alfassa.

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Image viewer applications
by Michael Catanzaro 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

Hi all, In Fedora 20, Shotwell was the default image viewer and no other image viewer was installed. In F21 Shotwell is still the default, but now Image Viewer (eog) is installed as well. This doesn't make any sense since Image Viewer serves no purpose unless it's the default image handler, whereas Shotwell is more useful for previewing and organizing a collection of photos. We've also recently noticed that gthumb looks like a nice alternative to Shotwell. I propose we do one of the following: * Replace Shotwell with gthumb, and remove Image Viewer. * Replace Shotwell with gthumb, but keep Image Viewer as the default image viewer. * Remove Shotwell, and keep Image Viewer as the only image viewer. Opinions welcome. You might notice that I'm gunning for Shotwell here. It looks a lot older than gthumb, and seems to have mostly the same functionality. (Make sure to check out gthumb in F21, not F20. You wouldn't know they were the same app due to the huge changes.) Image Viewer, in contrast, is a simple app for just previewing images, which is a different purpose, but I think gthumb can also serve this purpose just as well while looking nicer. There are other options, of course, which I am less fond of: * Remove Image Viewer. (Shotwell remains.) * Make Image Viewer the default image viewer. (Shotwell remains.) Either of these would be more sensible than keeping Image Viewer if it is not the default image viewer. GNOME Photos is notably not one of the apps we're considering. We've been told it's not ready yet. Michael

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ARM images for F21
by Josh Boyer 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

Hi All, As Paul mentioned in another thread, the websites and other teams are looking where to stick things for Alpha release in terms of downloads and such. One of the items that came up was the ARM image. I don't really believe anyone in the WG is actively testing or looking at ARM. However, it's still being composed so we're being asked where to put it. Thoughts? josh

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Fedora Workstation and GNOME Classic Session
by Stephen Gallagher 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I noticed something today while testing out Workstation. We're actually installing both GNOME 3 and GNOME Classic Session on a default install of Fedora Workstation. I realize I may be inviting a flamewar here (and for that, I apologize), but I think that this should be relegated to a non-default option (perhaps as an optional environment group that can be selected in the installer) rather than available by default on all Workstation installs. I look to the Workstation WG for an opinion on the matter. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlQIs7UACgkQeiVVYja6o6PivwCgoXqUbqqiA/9pVymjRrz5ZPrj IfEAoIw/uqHHsN+7EY58citUJq3hcl/3 =3Y9P -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Gnome-documents bugs
by Ankur Sinha 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

Hi, We missed out on testing gnome-documents as part of the test day recently. I decided to finally switch to using gnome-documents and its collections, rather than a folder based organisation system one fine day. This is when I ran into a number of bugs. Some of them are quite annoying, and if we're encouraging users to switch to using the default gnome apps that doesn't need a folder based organisation system, getting them fixed before F21 release would be really good. I'm listing them here just to get them some visibility since 3.13.91 is already out of the door and 3.14 is fast approaching: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735864 - documents disappear from collections (my entire collections vanished later) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735949 - lists but doesn't open google documents (spreadsheets/pdfs/docx files do not open on clicking them) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735862 - Adding to collection does not show new collection in dialogue and documents view is not updated until another collection is accessed https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735863 - Permits duplicate collection names (I ran into this as a result of the previous one - I kept trying to add docs to collections, and it kept creating one new collection after another with the same name.) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735881 - [RFE]Differentiate collections from normal documents to make them easier to find (when they're all mixed, it's difficult to find either docs or collections without searching) These are just ones I've filed recently but they turned up while following a normal daily gnome-document workflow - organise and view documents - which is important functionality for the workstation product. -- Thanks, Warm regards, Ankur (FranciscoD) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Join Fedora! Come talk to us! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

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IMPORTANT (release blocker): Status of Workstation network install
by Adam Williamson 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Hi, folks! We did the release blocker bug review meeting today, and one of the bugs that came up for discussion was this one: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1134524 The question of whether this bug is a release blocker comes down pretty clearly to the status of the Workstation network install image. That is, the image is clearly busted, so if we care about that image, we should consider the bug a release blocker. However, the question of whether the Workstation network install image should be considered 'supported' / 'release-blocking' / whatever does not appear to be settled. As I noted in my comment: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1134524#c2 as Workstation was originally designed it seemed clear that the answer was "no, we don't care about netinst", but things seem to have changed somewhat since then, and kalev seemed fairly receptive to blocking on Workstation netinst for F21: <kalev> adamw: so, my take on this is that I would really like to have a single installation media for Workstation, only the live USB / dvd <kalev> but I also do understand that in some environments, the PXE boot and netinstall are necessary, especially corporate installations <kalev> what I'm envisioning in the future is that we should have a single netinstall for the whole of Fedora, where one could select server or workstation <kalev> but that's not the future we are in right now; I'll try to lobby to make this happen for F22 <kalev> but for F21, I think we'll just have to make do with what we have and make the workstation-specific netinstall work <kalev> so I don't mind having it as a blocking bug I thought it'd be best to have a clear and publicly-recorded consensus on this, though, and ask the Workstation WG to amend the tech spec if appropriate. So: is it the case as kalev suggests that for F21 at least the Workstation network install image should be considered 'release blocking', i.e. a supported medium of the Workstation product? If so, can the tech spec be updated to reflect that? Once there's a clear answer to this question, we'll update the release criteria appropriately and determine the blocker status of the bug. Thanks! -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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Removing firewall-config from the default install of Fedora Workstation
by Elad Alfassa 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Hello. I propose we remove firewall-config (the graphical firewall configuration utility) from the default install of Fedora Workstation. Rationale: * The default Workstation zone file allows incoming connection to non-root ports. This means most of the common usecases will "just work" out of the box. Thus, most users will not need to touch their Firewall settings. * People who do need it will be able to install it from GNOME Software quite easily. Just search for "Firewall". There will be no confusion as this is the only firewall configuration tool shown in GNOME Software. * In general, we should avoid having app launchers for things that are configuration utilities in the default install. Unless there's major objection to this change in the following few days, I'll remove it from the gnome-desktop group in comps. Thanks, -- -Elad Alfassa.

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[RFC] non-KVM graphics/IO drivers in our default install media
by Alberto Ruiz 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

Hello everyone I wanted to get some feedback as to whether it would be acceptable/desirable to add whatever available graphics and IO drivers available for the most common hypervisors out there other than KVM/Spice. My idea is that it should be possible to run Fedora Workstation in any desktop virtualization solution out of the box as long as the drivers are acceptable for us in terms of licensing. So VirtualBox is the easiest shot, and a pretty popular one on Windows and Mac users as it's (mostly) FOSS and free of charge, but it'd be nice if we could add others like Parallels or VMWare (I am investigating the availability/licensing situation of those as we speak). I would appreciate any feedback or concerns about this proposal. -- Greetings, Alberto Ruiz Engineering Manager - Desktop Applications Team Red Hat, Inc.

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F21 Workstation Hardware Requirements
by Pete Travis 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm working on the release notes here - should there be any special hardware recommendations for Workstation? The 'requirements[1]' drafted are deliberately open-ended, because Fedora can be stripped down or built up to run *something* on most any modern machine. Workstation is a specific thing though, and while LLVMpipe can [often?] get gnome-shell running, it isn't a great experience. Maybe not the UX context you want Workstation to be used in. Thoughts? [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/20/html/Release_Notes/sect-Relea… - -- - -- Pete Travis - Fedora Docs Project Leader - 'randomuser' on freenode - immanetize(a)fedoraproject.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUAgMgAAoJEL1wZM0+jj2Z8jEH/1kIwnfQywb1w8qIBHcA8NyO /Q8oW9Db+RQ6hOO9hMOUrE+c8TCYXIwjwyc/LBJ5PqsxZuQ5yKvISKfA2kp1S/Kz ATI9QqrUU4i10nYwINOsijA74lRz4qdgKd8ZjRvH4u0hXCEnuRNwt2v6wc/NwjNU 0tBNGbMv9I81DPCoMYZkmgw+A5qA4bMK/FL7n+EslyBiiQWVTTQfEIfEMsR6Q4KA KaHw9A7bJ8pVC/wwnCmDy591ZntdG1ZdCkYYE3dcG2TqWatKruUbeKOh4yhXgbcE nHNx5oUUu43kT8NN5M5eFsHQIJY0ncyR7WAM42HLlQye5I+hoyDLF14E49YObSw= =eGAz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Workstation Meeting Minutes 2014-09-03
by Josh Boyer 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

======================================= #fedora-meeting: Workstation WG meeting ======================================= Meeting started by jwb at 15:00:24 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-09-03/workstation.2014… . Meeting summary --------------- * init (jwb, 15:00:25) * net-install for Alpha (jwb, 15:04:15) * kalev has been fixing this up. created workstation-product comps group (jwb, 15:06:52) * anaconda/rel-eng looking into comps path issue (jwb, 15:08:30) * ACTION: kalev to add comment in Workstation ks files to add packages to comps group instead (jwb, 15:09:03) * follow up with ways to remove anaconda from the set of packages installed in the final live image (jwb, 15:14:21) * Workstation Marketing/Release notes (jwb, 15:14:52) * AGREED: 2GB+ DRAM, 64-bit CPU recommended for hardware requirements (jwb, 15:30:00) * recommendations for VMs are also 64-bit (jwb, 15:33:51) * ACTION: otaylor to compare memory differences between 32 and 64-bit VMs (jwb, 15:34:42) * ACTION: elad661 to do some testing for storage recommendations (jwb, 15:35:41) * AGREED: don't install the release notes in the workstation images. work with docs and websites to make them easy to find. work with QA to remove "installing the release notes" from final criteria (jwb, 15:44:17) * AGREED: umbrella announcement that points to separate product announcements for final release. shared for alpha/beta (jwb, 15:53:10) * Default image viewer (jwb, 15:53:25) * AGREED: switch default image viewer to eog but leave shotwell installed. revisit for F22 (jwb, 16:03:48) Meeting ended at 16:05:16 UTC. Action Items ------------ * kalev to add comment in Workstation ks files to add packages to comps group instead * otaylor to compare memory differences between 32 and 64-bit VMs * elad661 to do some testing for storage recommendations Action Items, by person ----------------------- * elad661 * elad661 to do some testing for storage recommendations * kalev * kalev to add comment in Workstation ks files to add packages to comps group instead * otaylor * otaylor to compare memory differences between 32 and 64-bit VMs * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jwb (126) * elad661 (66) * kalev (34) * juhp_ (34) * mclasen (30) * cwickert (30) * randomuser (25) * otaylor (24) * stickster (19) * langdon (5) * zodbot (5) * jreznik (4) * satellit (1) * ltinkl (0) * ryanlerch (0) * juhp (0) * cschalle (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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F21 Blocker Review ** 2014-09-03 @ 16:00 UTC
by Kamil Paral 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

# F21 Blocker Review meeting # Date: 2014-09-03 # Time: 16:00 UTC (12:00 EDT, 09:00 PDT) # Location: #fedora-blocker-review on irc.freenode.net Greetings testers and developers! It's time again for another blocker review meeting! Currently there are 6 proposed blockers a 1 proposed freeze exception, but more can certainly be reported before the meeting. If you want to take a look at the accepted blockers, the full list can be found here: https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/21/alpha/buglist We'll be evaluating these bugs to see if they violate the Alpha Release Criteria and warrant the blocking of a release if they're not fixed. Information on the release criteria for F21 can be found on the wiki [0]. For more information about the Blocker and Freeze exception process, check out these links: - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_blocker_bug_process - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_freeze_exception_bug_process And for those of you who are curious how a Blocker Review Meeting works - or how it's supposed to go - check out the SOP on the wiki: - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_Blocker_Bug_Meeting See you in the meeting! [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Release_Criteria

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Gnome 3.14 on a touch screen tablet
by Ankur Sinha 02 Sep '14

02 Sep '14

Hi, I managed to get my hands on a touch screen tablet. It's an Asus something (fpaste --sysinfo here[1]). It came with windows 8 preinstalled, so I assume it supports multitouch. I installed Gnome 3.14 from one of the nightly images to see how well it works on it. It's now completely up to date with the F21 package set. Here are my findings (I'll file bugs when I find time. I'll also update the test page when I've filed my bugs): 1. The on screen keyboard doesn't automatically come up on the tablet. Is there a way to check if the system has a connected keyboard and bring it up if one isn't found? I tapped on "Install Fedora" and when I had to type in anaconda, the keyboard didn't come up. I had to quit anaconda, go to settings, enable accessibility and the keyboard and then redo anaconda. 2. Not all the gestures listed here work for me[2]. The page was listed here on the test day page: a. tapping works b. press and hold worked in the dash, but it didn't bring up the right click menu in nautilus. I haven't figured out how to bring it up yet. c. drag for scrolling works d. pinch to zoom didn't work in maps/shotwell. Worked in eog. e. double tap didn't work in eog either f. three finger pinch didn't bring up overview g. four finger drag didn't switch workspaces h. finger hold and tab didn't bring up the window switcher 3. The on screen keyboard doesn't work too well. At the moment, each key I press is typed in twice somehow - even after rebooting. I had to plug in a usb keyboard to complete the g-i-s configuration. 4. The on screen keyboard doesn't have arrow keys like any other touch keyboard. This makes using the terminal just a little difficult since you can't access the previous command that easily. Similarly, it doesn't have ctrl alt etc., so restarting the shell if it gets stuck etc. or bringing up the "looking glass" is a little difficult without a usb keyboard. These aren't usual use cases, but maybe something like a "developer mode" could enable these? 5. The tablet also had a stylus which we managed to lose. It therefore recognises it as a wacom tablet. I clicked on "calibrate" and it brought up a screen with circles in the centre and a cross hair. I couldn't figure out how to get out of it. No gesture worked, not even alt f4 from the USB keyboard. A "cancel" button somewhere would be nice. Also some instructions on what one is supposed to do would help. I think you're supposed to point the stylus at the cross hair, but I'm only guessing here. I have this tablet for another two weeks, and I'll be happy to test out stuff if any one wants me to. [1] http://paste.fedoraproject.org/129606/14093240/ [2] https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/Gestures [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Gesture_Support -- Thanks, Warm regards, Ankur (FranciscoD) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha Join Fedora! Come talk to us! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG

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Workstation Meeting 03-09-2014 Agenda
by Josh Boyer 02 Sep '14

02 Sep '14

Hi All, As we discussed last week, we're doing an out-of-cycle meeting tomorrow. I've gathered what seem to be the most pressing issues below. If you have something you feel is more urgent, or you'd like to add it in case we have time, please let me know. As a reminder, we decided on-list last week to remove firewall-config from the default install. We also agreed to the Apps and Launchers guidelines. * net-install for Alpha - How are we doing? * Workstation Marketing/Release notes - Christian's draft - Hardware requirements? * Default image viewer - Current consensus seem to be to drop shotwell and go with either eog or gthumb. - Concern that changing default now will be pointless if we change it again in a release for gphotos josh

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Re: Release notes have a launcher - maybe we should remove that
by Elad Alfassa 02 Sep '14

02 Sep '14

On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Leslie S Satenstein <lsatenstein(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Hi Elad > > Sometimes I wonder if I am alone with the documentation group. I see that you and I have similar ideas. > > I have been stating that the release notes, perhaps in pdf format, should be stored in the same directory as the ISO images. > > The notes could be in html format by language > b) Torrent file -- ditto > c) PDF or *odt format > > If wanted, use a a separate directory to hold the notes. In this case, a language code in the title would distinguish the appropriate translation. > > In my view, If I have already installed the ISO, it is too late for the notes -- Fedora21 will be functional. The true use of the notes is for planning the upgrade, be it by fresh installation or via fedup. > > But what would be of interest to me for pre-installation planning would be a bill-of-lading -- a contents list for each of the Fedora 21 iso images. > > Regards > > Leslie > Mr. Leslie Satenstein > Hi Leslie. That sounds like a good compromise. The Final Release Criteria doesn't state we need the release notes on the *installed* system, it uses the phrasing "on the image" https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_21_Final_Release_Criteria#Release_not… So, yes, this is possible, but to make it happen we need to generate PDFs for the release notes, and get rel-eng to put them on the media itself. Just one thing: next time please use "reply to all" to reply on-list so other people can see your message too. Is this compromise (putting PDF files in the directory on the media instead of in the live system itself) acceptable for everyone? -- -Elad Alfassa.

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Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
by Stephen Gallagher 02 Sep '14

02 Sep '14

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/02/2014 03:44 AM, Honza Horak wrote: > On 08/26/2014 05:42 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: >> On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:46:40 +0200 Honza Horak >> <hhorak(a)redhat.com> wrote: >> >> ...snip... >> >> I'm not against each group doing a summary, but as noted by >> Josh, sometimes the summaries are very repetitive ( ...still >> working on implemeting roles... etc) >> >>> List of proposed MLs to send this summary to: >>> server(a)lists.fedoraproject.org desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >>> cloud(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >>> env-and-stacks(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >>> devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org >> >> This is turning into my new pet peeve. ;) >> >> Cross posting to bunches of lists is not a good idea, IMHO. >> >> * It means the person posting the summary has to be subscribed to >> every single list they are sending to. * It means if anyone hits >> reply to all they have to be subscribed to every single list or >> deal with rejections/bounces/moderation. >> >> I think the best thing would be to mail just one list: devel. > > All right, I see the point, cross posting does not seem to be very > useful, devel@ or meetingminutes@ seem to be more appropriate way. > > However, that's actually what we do already and I feel like it does > not work very well. People need to pay attention to catch the > meeting minutes they care about and since there is no summary of > what is happening beyond meetings (on the group's mailing list or > even any place else), it is almost impossible to stay tuned for > non-members. > One thing I've been doing for the recent Server meetings is publishing the meetbot notes to the Server WG blog (which appears on Planet Fedora). I'm trying to get us in the habit of keeping more detailed #info notes so that this will become more useful going forward. >> Failing that, I think the best way we can do cross posting right >> now is for people to send seperate copies of an email to each >> list they want to post to, follow discussion on all those lists, >> and then do another sum up post if there's important feedback >> from only one list. > > Just going back to the original idea -- my goal in the first place > was to have a simple way for everybody who is interested in what > working groups work on to learn about that quickly. Bringing this > message to other groups directly was supposed to prevent people to > forget staying tuned. > > Honza > >>> Comments, ideas or better solutions are welcome as usually, but >>> I might be offline until Sunday, so do not expect any answers >>> from me in that time :) >> >> Fair enough. >> >> kevin >> >> > > _______________________________________________ server mailing > list server(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/server -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlQFrxUACgkQeiVVYja6o6OqsACcC8cCE6i/vhLhrbbuZZC7+dif ECoAoLGmhOySoKLjhsiOpdTTteEf6wKL =Jgp9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Fedora workstation: what do we want installed by default?
by Elad Alfassa 01 Sep '14

01 Sep '14

Hey! Few questions regarding our default offering: 1) Why is icedtea-web installed by default? I really don't think a java browser plugin is something we want by default. Software makes it very easy to install it for those who need it. 2) Do we want to replace Rhythmbox with gnome-music? 3) Do we really need a firewall configuration UI? Related: Can we hide nm-connection-editor from the application view? It's not an app. See upstream bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682456 -- -Elad Alfassa.

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