#fedora-meeting-2: Workstation WG (2020-05-12)
Meeting started by cmurf at 01:35:58 UTC. The full logs are available at
* Rollcall (cmurf, 01:36:23)
* present: cmurf, aday, tpopela, neal, mcatanzaro, jens, mclasen,
langdon, owen, ernestas, feborges, james (cmurf, 01:36:25)
* regrets: (cmurf, 01:36:27)
* missing: kalev (cmurf, 01:36:29)
* Approve 5 May minutes (cmurf, 01:36:31)
* AGREED: Approved - no objections (cmurf, 01:36:35)
* Announcements (cmurf, 01:36:37)
* F32 retrospective, and appoint chairs for F33 cycle (cmurf, 01:36:43)
* LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/141 (cmurf,
* AGREED: cmurf and aday to chair/co-chair for F33 (cmurf, 01:36:51)
* Give ABRT some love (cmurf, 01:36:53)
* LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/130 (cmurf,
* Some of the issues in the list aren't easy to fix. There are plans
to rearchitect ABRT. (cmurf, 01:37:13)
* Asked Ernestas to keep WG informed of progress (cmurf, 01:37:31)
* Automatically adding new packages when upgrading (cmurf, 01:37:33)
* LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/138 (cmurf,
* Related issues #60, #66, #88 (cmurf, 01:37:37)
* ACTION: Neal to followup with Daniel Mach to see if there are any
developments on the DNF side (cmurf, 01:37:45)
* ACTION: Michael to add a recommends for something or other (cmurf,
* Default disk partitioning layout for Workstation (cmurf, 01:37:49)
* LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/54 (cmurf,
* Brief discussion whether to consider Btrfs by default among other
options. Ran out of time. No decision. (cmurf, 01:38:13)
Meeting ended at 01:38:36 UTC.
* Neal to followup with Daniel Mach to see if there are any developments
on the DNF side
* Michael to add a recommends for something or other
Action Items, by person
* Neal to followup with Daniel Mach to see if there are any
developments on the DNF side
* Michael to add a recommends for something or other
People Present (lines said)
* cmurf (60)
* zodbot (7)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
It came to my attention today that the kernel-modules-extra package is
included in the live spins. It has been for quite some time from what
I can tell. I was just wondering if this was intentional, or if there
was some reasoning behind it. It is expected that
kernel-modules-extra should not be required on most systems.
Fedora Workstation WG meeting
Minutes should be digestible by Meetbot (
#startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-04-28)
#info present: cmurf, tpopela, aday, mclasen, otaylor, mcatanzaro,
jens, kalev, james, feborges, link
#info regrets: neal
#info missing: langdon
#topic Approve minutes of 14 & 21 April
#agreed Approved - no objections
F32 release day
Fedora on Lenovo laptops; potential implications for the working group:
- First boot (initial setup as the first thing the user sees, rather
than Anaconda) - need to ensure that either language selection is
displayed in initial setup or ensure that the correct keyboard layout
is predefined for the locale. Some digging required here. It might be
good to track that.
- ACTION: Michael to investigate.
- Disk encryption - how to enable/reprovision?
#topic Status reports
Chris is 60% through swap on zram proposal; is currently summarising
the hibernation issue
#topic F32 retrospective, and appoint chair for F33 cycle
#info Review F32 cycle, WG organizational and meeting format changes.
Chair and co-chair nominations.
#topic Meeting format
Chris would appreciate feedback on the meeting format.
Michael: thinks that things are going well. Thinks that video has been
a success. 6 month chair seems good; thinks that Chris has been doing a
Allan: posted his feedback in the ticket (as did Chris and Tomas).
Kalev: not happy at all. Would prefer IRC meetings.
Chris: could we have an IRC meeting every month? Kalev: or a video
meeting every month, and IRC at other times?
Matthias: we have IRC all the time.
Non-weekly meetings are difficult, calendar-wise.
#agreed Continue the discussion on the ticket.
#topic Chair/co-chair duration
Kalev: 6 months is too long; would prefer 2/3 months, and the chair can
choose the meeting format
Chris: perhaps that suggestion could be combined with Allan's idea of
the chair delegating more duties
Chris would be happy to do it, and perhaps delegate more
Allan is happy to carry on as co-chair, would quite like not to do the
minutes any more
Allan: we have some long-running initiatives which Chris has been
leading, which it would be good to resolve for F33. Chris: isn't sure
he needs to be chair for that.
Michael is happy for Chris to carry on as chair. So is Allan.
Chris invites others to put themselves forward as nominees.
Kalev is interested, but only if we use IRC. Would change the direction
- would focus on getting Flathub preinstalled instead of disk
encryption. Also which apps are preinstalled.
Some discussion about enabling Flathub by default - see ticket #108
#topic Encryption of system and user data
Discuss short term encryption plan (full disk encryption as it exists
today in the installer, which encrypts both system and user data).
Last week Lennart and Ray joined us to talk about homed. Ray might
report back next week on systemd-homed. It's currently unclear whether
systemd-homed is a short-term prospect or a long-term prospect.
Question about setting up recovery keys -
Michael & Matthias: how is a recovery password useful, if you can just
forget that one as well?
Owen: the fact that it's a recovery password indicates to people that
they need a good record of it.
Allan: would like to evaluate the full range of issues/requirements in
relation to full disk encryption, not just this issue alone. How does
this approach to password recovery compare to other approaches?
Michael: we should invite people from fedora-devel to participate in
#action: michael to do this.
Jens: what about root password? (as recovery key?)
#topic Blocking on user switching
What are the parameters by which loss of function should or should not
be release blocking?
Is it right to block a release on this?
Kalev: yes. We have the engineers to fix it.
Matthias: depends on how relevant user switching is to us.
Allan: there are some multiuser cases where it would be nice if Fedora
was appropriate - small labs/offices. Kalev: shared computers at home
are relevant too.
Allan: other question is how bad the fail state is - does it just not
work, or does it bring down the session/system, etc?
#agreed User switching should be a release blocker; we're happy for QA
to decide on the exact wording.
#action Chris to communicate the decision to QA
#topic Workstation Live image is oversize
Chris: what's the process we want to determine the image size?
Kalev: if we want to stick to 2GB, we will need to cut some packages.
We're very close to the limit - not much room for manoeuvre.
Owen: if we change the limit to 4GB, we wouldn't have any other process
to keep the size down. This could imply that we should only increase
the limit a small amount. The alternative would be to schedule a size
review each development cycle. Matthias: it could be a package review
rather than size review - to see what changes have been made.
Kalev: it would be good to do this around the same time as the test day.
Owen: that might not give us a lot of time to resolve engineering
issues. Kalev: yes, we should have the test day before the beta, to
give us enough time before the beta release.
Chris: would like to review which services are started, too.
#action Chris will ask release engineering and QA for their input, and
we'll work out the details next week
#topic Guidelines for preinstalled and non-removable apps
Hi Fedora users, developers and friends!
It's time to start thinking about Test Days for Fedora 33.
For anyone who isn't aware, a Test Day is an event usually focused
around IRC for interaction and a Wiki page for instructions and results,
with the aim being to get a bunch of interested users and developers
together to test a specific feature or area of the distribution. You can
run a Test Day on just about anything for which it would be useful to do
some fairly focused testing in 'real time' with a group of testers; it
doesn't have to be code, for instance, we often run Test Days for
l10n/i18n topics. For more information on Test Days, see
Anyone who wants to can host their own Test Day, or you can request that
the QA group helps you out with organization or any combination of the
two. To propose a Test Day, just file a ticket in fedora-qa pagure - here's
an example https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issue/624 . For
instructions on hosting a Test Day, see
You can see the schedule at https://pagure.io/fedora-qa/issues?tags=test+days
There are many slots open right now. Consider the development schedule,
though, in deciding when
you want to run your Test Day - for some topics you may want to avoid
the time before the Beta release or the time after the feature freeze
or the Final Freeze.
We normally aim to schedule Test Days on Thursdays; however, if you want
to run a series of related Test Days, it's often a good idea to do
something like Tuesday / Wednesday / Thursday of the same week (this is
how we usually run the X Test Week, for instance). If all the Thursday
slots fill up but more people want to run Test Days, we will open up
Tuesday slots as overflows. And finally, if you really want to run a
Test Day in a specific time frame due to the development schedule, but
the Thursday slot for that week is full, we can add a slot on another
day. We're flexible! Just put in your ticket the date or time frame you'd
like, and we'll figure it out from there.
If you don't want to run your own Test Day, but you are willing to help
with another, feel free to join one or more of already accepted Test Days:
Fedora Media Writer Test Day*
GNOME Test Day
i18n Test Day*
Kernel Test Week*
Upgrade Test Day*
And don't be afraid, there are a lot of more slots available for your own
[*] These are the test days we run generally to make sure everything is
working fine, the dates get announced as we move into the release cycle.
If you have any questions about the Test Day process, please don't
hesitate to contact me or any member of the Fedora QA team on test at
lists.fedoraproject.org or in #fedora-qa on IRC. Thanks!