Hi,
Since it has come up recently, I figured I'd briefly mention that some people in the desktop team, QE, and release engineering had a few lunchtime chats about our update process. I tried to write down some of what we talked about: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience
I later found out that there are a number of different initiatives underway that may help with this problem. So, that is good news.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Thanks, Jon
On 09/30/2009 08:07 AM, William Jon McCann wrote:
Since it has come up recently, I figured I'd briefly mention that some people in the desktop team, QE, and release engineering had a few lunchtime chats about our update process. I tried to write down some of what we talked about: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience
I later found out that there are a number of different initiatives underway that may help with this problem. So, that is good news.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Here is my biggest annoyance with updates: I get usually asked about them right after I start the computer and have other important things to do. I check the total size and if it is small enough, I apply it but if is large (for example including an openoffice.org update), I postpone the update, as I need the full bandwidth (for cheeking mails, reading news, whatever). Good thing we have Delta RPMS, and the size is usually much smaller than reported...
If the update needs a restart, I *never* do it right away: I started the computer because I have things to do with it, not waste a couple of minutes with a reboot.
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
On 09/30/2009 08:07 AM, William Jon McCann wrote: [...] If the update needs a restart, I *never* do it right away: I started the computer because I have things to do with it, not waste a couple of minutes with a reboot.
Exactly I never reboot just because PK tells me "please reboot".
On 09/30/2009 12:27 PM, drago01 wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
On 09/30/2009 08:07 AM, William Jon McCann wrote: [...] If the update needs a restart, I *never* do it right away: I started the computer because I have things to do with it, not waste a couple of minutes with a reboot.
Exactly I never reboot just because PK tells me "please reboot".
Well, never was a bit too strong... the system may get acting so weird so ultimately you *have* to reboot :p
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
On 09/30/2009 12:27 PM, drago01 wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
On 09/30/2009 08:07 AM, William Jon McCann wrote: [...] If the update needs a restart, I *never* do it right away: I started the computer because I have things to do with it, not waste a couple of minutes with a reboot.
Exactly I never reboot just because PK tells me "please reboot".
Well, never was a bit too strong... the system may get acting so weird so ultimately you *have* to reboot :p
The only thing that acts weird is firefox, but I always close it before updating it.
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:07 AM, William Jon McCann william.jon.mccann@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Since it has come up recently, I figured I'd briefly mention that some people in the desktop team, QE, and release engineering had a few lunchtime chats about our update process. I tried to write down some of what we talked about: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience
I later found out that there are a number of different initiatives underway that may help with this problem. So, that is good news.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
"# System updates must fix critical bugs or security vulnerabilities only "
Well there should be one exception for this: Adding support for new hardware (ie. kernel rebase). The reason is that if we don't do that the user have to either wait until the next release to be able to use the his/her hardware or go googling for how to compile the specifi driver by hand.
Both aren't really a great user expirence.
Hi,
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 5:26 AM, drago01 drago01@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:07 AM, William Jon McCann william.jon.mccann@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Since it has come up recently, I figured I'd briefly mention that some people in the desktop team, QE, and release engineering had a few lunchtime chats about our update process. I tried to write down some of what we talked about: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience
I later found out that there are a number of different initiatives underway that may help with this problem. So, that is good news.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
"# System updates must fix critical bugs or security vulnerabilities only "
Well there should be one exception for this: Adding support for new hardware (ie. kernel rebase). The reason is that if we don't do that the user have to either wait until the next release to be able to use the his/her hardware or go googling for how to compile the specifi driver by hand.
Both aren't really a great user expirence.
Yeah, that makes sense. I've added that.
Thanks, Jon
On 09/30/2009 10:37 AM, William Jon McCann wrote:
Hi,
Since it has come up recently, I figured I'd briefly mention that some people in the desktop team, QE, and release engineering had a few lunchtime chats about our update process. I tried to write down some of what we talked about: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience
I later found out that there are a number of different initiatives underway that may help with this problem. So, that is good news.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
One thing I would really like is for PackageKit to download updates in the background (detecting whether I am on a low bandwidth connection) and only prompt me for updates when it is ready to install.
Another constant annoyance is that soon after a yum operation in the command line, PackageKit insists on updating some metadata immediately thereby locking out the subsequent commands for sometime (can be a considerable delay). I would prefer it to wait for a few mins and not interrupt me. Filed and closed WONTFIX however.
Rahul
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On 09/30/2009 10:37 AM, William Jon McCann wrote:
Hi,
Since it has come up recently, I figured I'd briefly mention that some people in the desktop team, QE, and release engineering had a few lunchtime chats about our update process. I tried to write down some of what we talked about: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop/Whiteboards/UpdateExperience
I later found out that there are a number of different initiatives underway that may help with this problem. So, that is good news.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
One thing I would really like is for PackageKit to download updates in the background (detecting whether I am on a low bandwidth connection) and only prompt me for updates when it is ready to install.
Another constant annoyance is that soon after a yum operation in the command line, PackageKit insists on updating some metadata immediately thereby locking out the subsequent commands for sometime (can be a considerable delay). I would prefer it to wait for a few mins and not interrupt me. Filed and closed WONTFIX however.
Just disable the packagekit yum plugin or do yum remove PackageKit-yum-plugin
2009/9/30 Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org:
One thing I would really like is for PackageKit to download updates in the background (detecting whether I am on a low bandwidth connection) and only prompt me for updates when it is ready to install.
It already detects what kind of connection you are on. When the idle-bandwidth changes are done we can do things like this without upsetting people actually using the connection.
Another constant annoyance is that soon after a yum operation in the command line, PackageKit insists on updating some metadata immediately thereby locking out the subsequent commands for sometime (can be a considerable delay). I would prefer it to wait for a few mins and not interrupt me. Filed and closed WONTFIX however.
Sure, remove PackageKit-yum-plugin or blacklist it in the yum configuration. There's also now configuration for this value in the systemwide config file, /etc/PackageKit/PackageKit.conf:
# The time in seconds to wait when we get the StateHasChanged method # # This should be used when a native tool has been used, and the update UIs # should be updated to reflect reality. # # default=5 StateChangedTimeoutPriority=5
Change this to something like 2400 and if should do pretty much what you want.
Richard.
On 09/30/2009 05:19 PM, Richard Hughes wrote:
2009/9/30 Rahul Sundaram :
One thing I would really like is for PackageKit to download updates in the background (detecting whether I am on a low bandwidth connection) and only prompt me for updates when it is ready to install.
It already detects what kind of connection you are on. When the idle-bandwidth changes are done we can do things like this without upsetting people actually using the connection.
I know it detects the connection but would like to have a preference option that downloads updates in the background. I think that is what Mac OS X does by default but I might be misremembering that.
Another constant annoyance is that soon after a yum operation in the command line, PackageKit insists on updating some metadata immediately thereby locking out the subsequent commands for sometime (can be a considerable delay). I would prefer it to wait for a few mins and not interrupt me. Filed and closed WONTFIX however.
Sure, remove PackageKit-yum-plugin or blacklist it in the yum configuration. There's also now configuration for this value in the systemwide config file, /etc/PackageKit/PackageKit.conf:
Why would I remove PackgeKit yum plugin? I want to use PackageKit and yum interchangeably. There are particular things yum makes easier and there are particular things PackageKit makes it easier for me. I think it is a common enough use case that I want it to just work without having to tweak configuration files. IMO, the default state change timeout value should be higher but I have done that for now. Thanks.
Rahul
2009/9/30 Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org:
Why would I remove PackgeKit yum plugin? I want to use PackageKit and yum interchangeably.
Maybe confusingly, there are two yum subpackages for PackageKit.
PackageKit-yum contains the yum backend and all the code for packagekitd to talk to yum and pass data. PackageKit-yum-plugin is a simple yum plugin that pokes PackageKit to drop internal caches and reload update lists (if an application is open) after the user has done a command wuth yum on the CLI that might change the state, like updating a package or enabling a repo.
So, it's pretty safe to remove PackageKit-yum-plugin if you don't mind the GUI's occasionally being out of sync with reality, but you really, really don't want to remove PackageKit-yum.
Richard.
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