Workstation WG Recap 2014-Nov-05

[Paul W. Frields]

Minutes:       
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-11-05/workstation.20...
Minutes (text):
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-11-05/workstation.20...
Log:           
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-11-05/workstation.20...

* * *

======================================
#fedora-meeting: Fedora Workstation WG
======================================


Meeting started by stickster at 16:00:26 UTC. The full logs are
available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-11-05/workstation.20...
.



Meeting summary
---------------
* Roll call!  (stickster, 16:00:53)

* Added/removed apps in F21  (stickster, 16:06:44)
  * LINK:
    https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2014-October/010893.html
    (stickster, 16:06:54)
  * Removed: baobab, fedora-release-notes, firewall-config  (stickster,
    16:11:07)
  * IDEA: Put baobab back in, seems this was dropped inadvertently
    (stickster, 16:12:12)
  * AGREED: restore baobab  (stickster, 16:14:18)
  * AGREED: f-r-n and f-c stay dropped as planned  (stickster, 16:16:38)
  * See link above for added desktop items list  (stickster, 16:18:38)
  * LINK: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737210
    (ryanlerch, 16:21:08)
  * AGREED: keep bijiben, no blocking issues  (stickster, 16:21:38)
  * IDEA: We should probably install optical drive utility if there's
    hardware, but this probably needs some new solution  (stickster,
    16:24:19)
  * AGREED: Drop brasero -- discoverable in Software  (stickster,
    16:30:06)
  * AGREED: keep devassistant, this was explicitly set as feature
    (stickster, 16:30:48)
  * AGREED: keep eog  (stickster, 16:33:20)
  * AGREED: drop gnome-dictionary  (stickster, 16:34:58)
  * Coming back to this topic after rest of agenda  (stickster,
    16:38:33)
  * AGREED: keep Boxes  (stickster, 16:38:40)

* LAS speakers for WG  (stickster, 16:39:37)
  * otaylor will be on interview tag-team  (stickster, 16:44:35)
  * LINK: http://www.reddit.com/r/LinuxActionShow has >7000 too
    (ryanlerch, 16:45:23)
  * Any other interested parties can feel free to contact stickster
    (stickster, 16:46:20)

* dnf-plugins-core by default  (stickster, 16:46:30)
  * AGREED: include dnf-plugins-core in default WS install  (stickster,
    16:54:18)
  * ACTION: kalev will make required changes  (stickster, 16:55:09)

* Branding update  (stickster, 16:56:19)
  * LINK: http://imgur.com/bNzDhyE   (ryanlerch, 16:57:46)
  * Further discussion on apps changes to commence in
    #fedora-workstation (including whether to do it right now) :-)
    (stickster, 17:01:53)

Meeting ended at 17:02:09 UTC.




Action Items
------------
* kalev will make required changes




Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* kalev
  * kalev will make required changes
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* stickster (134)
* kalev (62)
* ryanlerch (36)
* drago01 (25)
* aday (20)
* andreasn (15)
* otaylor (14)
* mclasen (13)
* jwb (10)
* zodbot (9)
* fmuellner (5)
* sesivany (3)
* bochecha (3)
* satellit_e (3)
* jsmith (2)
* nirik (1)



-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
    The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

[Kalev Lember]

On 11/05/2014 06:04 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  * kalev will make required changes 
Done:
https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/comps.git/commit/?id=b39cd4ac4b04ade45a...

-- 
Kalev

[Michael Catanzaro]

On Thu, 2014-11-06 at 01:12 +0100, Kalev Lember wrote:
>  
>  Done:
>
> https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/comps.git/commit/?id=b39cd4ac4b04ade45a...
We also need to patch gnome-software so that Dictionary can be removed
if it is installed, like we already do for Epiphany.

[Bill Nottingham]

Michael Catanzaro (mcatanzaro(a)gnome.org) said: 
>  On Thu, 2014-11-06 at 01:12 +0100, Kalev Lember wrote:
>  > 
>  > Done:
>  >
> https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/comps.git/commit/?id=b39cd4ac4b04ade45a...
>  
>  We also need to patch gnome-software so that Dictionary can be removed
>  if it is installed, like we already do for Epiphany. 
Just curious - where is this blacklisting/whitelisting done in
gnome-software?  Is it better done in the appdata or the desktop file
somewhere?

Bill

[Michael Catanzaro]

On Thu, 2014-11-06 at 11:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
>  Just curious - where is this blacklisting/whitelisting done in
>  gnome-software? 
Here:
https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/data/modulesets/gnome.xml

Oh, we need to also remove gnome-logs as well (which is not in the
upstream list, and not to be confused with gnome-system-log), in
addition to gnome-dictionary:

http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/gnome-software.git/tree/gnome-software...

And optionally restore Baobab. And optionally drop Firefox: Firefox
should be installed by default, but it should not be considered part of
our operating system.

>  Is it better done in the appdata or the desktop file
>  somewhere? 
I'm not sure. It would not really be good for applications to be able to
decide for themselves whether or not they are part of the OS, so in that
sense, gnome-software is absolutely the correct place for this. But it's
also not good that it relies on desktop file names, which are unreliable
because they tend to change.

[Richard Hughes]

On 6 November 2014 17:57, Michael Catanzaro <mcatanzaro(a)gnome.org&gt; wrote:
>  But it's also not good that it relies on desktop file names,
> which are unreliable
>  because they tend to change. 
They're not supposed to change; changing the application ID (the
.desktop file name) of an application breaks the shell too.

Richard.

[Bastien Nocera]

----- Original Message -----
>  On 6 November 2014 17:57, Michael Catanzaro
> <mcatanzaro(a)gnome.org&gt; wrote:
>  > But it's also not good that it relies on desktop file names, which are
>  > unreliable
>  > because they tend to change.
>  
>  They're not supposed to change; changing the application ID (the
>  .desktop file name) of an application breaks the shell too. 
There's hacks in gnome-shell to make sure we don't break users' dashes.

[Michael Catanzaro]

On Fri, 2014-11-07 at 10:19 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote:
>  They're not supposed to change; changing the application ID (the
>  .desktop file name) of an application breaks the shell too. 
The ones that haven't changed in the past year will soon enough, for
D-Bus activation. Each time, the lists of desktop files in
gnome-software and gnome-shell (used to prevent apps from disappearing
from the dash) need to be updated. They're usually forgotten.

[Kalev Lember]

On 11/06/2014 06:57 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
>  On Thu, 2014-11-06 at 11:09 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > Just curious - where is this blacklisting/whitelisting done in
> > gnome-software?
>  
>  Here:
>  https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/tree/data/modulesets/gnome.xml
>  
>  Oh, we need to also remove gnome-logs as well (which is not in the
>  upstream list, and not to be confused with gnome-system-log), in
>  addition to gnome-dictionary:
>  
>
> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/gnome-software.git/tree/gnome-software...
>  
>  And optionally restore Baobab. And optionally drop Firefox: Firefox
>  should be installed by default, but it should not be considered part of
>  our operating system. 
Thanks! Fixed in
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/gnome-software-3.14.1-2.fc21

-- 
Kalev

[Jens-Ulrik Petersen]

>    * AGREED: keep Boxes  (stickster, 16:38:40) 
For the record I would vote for not installing Boxes by default:
it pulls in some large deps, only some use-cases need it,
and some people prefer virt-manager anyway.

Personally I think it would be nice to have a lean base/core WS image.
I wonder if overlayfs could allow for more flexibility with Live installs
in the future for things like this and Libreoffice, etc.

Jens

[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, Nov 07, 2014 at 05:14:49AM -0500, Jens Petersen wrote:
>  >   * AGREED: keep Boxes  (stickster, 16:38:40)
>  
>  For the record I would vote for not installing Boxes by default:
>  it pulls in some large deps, only some use-cases need it,
>  and some people prefer virt-manager anyway.
>  
>  Personally I think it would be nice to have a lean base/core WS image.
>  I wonder if overlayfs could allow for more flexibility with Live installs
>  in the future for things like this and Libreoffice, etc. 
ISTM one of the virtues of Boxes is for developers to be able to spin
up VM guests for e.g. testing their web apps on multiple platforms.
This seems like a fairly typical use case for the developers we've
discussed in the past.  I agree with lean in the right ways, but not
if it sacrifices a compelling feature that serves the folks we are
looking for as consumers.  Just my $0.02 -- I would like to hear from
other WG members how they feel about it.

-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
    The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

[Josh Boyer]

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, Nov 07, 2014 at 05:14:49AM -0500, Jens Petersen wrote:
> > >   * AGREED: keep Boxes  (stickster, 16:38:40)
> >
> > For the record I would vote for not installing Boxes by default:
> > it pulls in some large deps, only some use-cases need it,
> > and some people prefer virt-manager anyway.
> >
> > Personally I think it would be nice to have a lean base/core WS image.
> > I wonder if overlayfs could allow for more flexibility with Live installs
> > in the future for things like this and Libreoffice, etc.
>
>  ISTM one of the virtues of Boxes is for developers to be able to spin
>  up VM guests for e.g. testing their web apps on multiple platforms.
>  This seems like a fairly typical use case for the developers we've
>  discussed in the past.  I agree with lean in the right ways, but not
>  if it sacrifices a compelling feature that serves the folks we are
>  looking for as consumers.  Just my $0.02 -- I would like to hear from
>  other WG members how they feel about it. 
I'm fairly sure we've discussed this long ago and Boxes was included
to cover various items we listed in the PRD.  It should stay.

josh