Hey folks, just a quick note that I've put up the 'official' announcement of the first GNOME 3 Test Day:
http://www.happyassassin.net/2011/01/31/gnome-3-test-day-1-come-try-the-new-...
If you can blog it (or dent it or tweet it or whatever the cool kids are doing with the intarwebs nowadays) that would be really great - especially if you can get it on aggregators, particularly Fedora and GNOME Planets, and any news sites you know of.
Also huge thanks to John Palmieri, Christopher Aillon and David Malcolm who fed me a huge set of test case ideas today at FUDCon - I definitely have enough to make a really comprehensive set of tests for the event. Right now the page still has the crappy initial set of test cases, but I'll be writing up the ideas I got today and the ones from Cosimo as test cases tonight and tomorrow, probably, and updating the page to be way more awesome.
Of course, if you have any time on Thursday (whenever that is, in your time zone) please come and drop by the IRC channel, and do some testing or help out other testers or whatever you can, that would be really helpful too. And please let me know if you have any suggestions or corrections or ideas or anything for the event(s). thanks!
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote:
Hey folks, just a quick note that I've put up the 'official' announcement of the first GNOME 3 Test Day:
http://www.happyassassin.net/2011/01/31/gnome-3-test-day-1-come-try-the-new-...
If you can blog it (or dent it or tweet it or whatever the cool kids are doing with the intarwebs nowadays) that would be really great - especially if you can get it on aggregators, particularly Fedora and GNOME Planets, and any news sites you know of.
Thanks Adam, I repeated the news in my (italian) blog, should show on planet in the the next few hours.
I'll take care of spreading it further in the Italian community sites I follow
On Mon, 2011-01-31 at 14:47 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
Hey folks, just a quick note that I've put up the 'official' announcement of the first GNOME 3 Test Day:
http://www.happyassassin.net/2011/01/31/gnome-3-test-day-1-come-try-the-new-...
Hey Adam, thanks so much for putting this together!
Here's the deal: I'd love to get most of GNOME 2.91.6 in for this, since it will give us a much more complete experience than what is in rawhide now, but...I'm not sure I can get it all built before Thursday. A complicating factor is that there is a GTK+ abi change in there, so I'll have to get everything depending on gtk3 rebuilt in one piece; and there may be a few dependencies of the new gtk3-ported gnome-panel that have not been packaged yet.
So I guess I'll start building 2.91.6 in the dist-f15-gnome3 tag and we'll see how far I get before tomorrow ends.
Matthias
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 21:08 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Mon, 2011-01-31 at 14:47 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
Hey folks, just a quick note that I've put up the 'official' announcement of the first GNOME 3 Test Day:
http://www.happyassassin.net/2011/01/31/gnome-3-test-day-1-come-try-the-new-...
Hey Adam, thanks so much for putting this together!
Here's the deal: I'd love to get most of GNOME 2.91.6 in for this, since it will give us a much more complete experience than what is in rawhide now, but...I'm not sure I can get it all built before Thursday. A complicating factor is that there is a GTK+ abi change in there, so I'll have to get everything depending on gtk3 rebuilt in one piece; and there may be a few dependencies of the new gtk3-ported gnome-panel that have not been packaged yet.
So I guess I'll start building 2.91.6 in the dist-f15-gnome3 tag and we'll see how far I get before tomorrow ends.
Ah - if I'd've known a couple of days ago we could have changed the date, but I've sent announcements out to quite a few places now so I think we're locked in. The good news is we can do custom live spins for the test day, so even if you can't get it done in time for the nightly builds, we can fire off some custom builds. I am ridiculously tired right now but I'll be in IRC tomorrow, I'll join GIMPnet so I can come in the desktop channel in case you need to sync up with me. I can help do some builds if that would be any use. Just let me know! Thanks.
On 02/02/2011 07:01 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Ah - if I'd've known a couple of days ago we could have changed the date, but I've sent announcements out to quite a few places now so I think we're locked in. The good news is we can do custom live spins for the test day, so even if you can't get it done in time for the nightly builds, we can fire off some custom builds. I am ridiculously tired right now but I'll be in IRC tomorrow, I'll join GIMPnet so I can come in the desktop channel in case you need to sync up with me. I can help do some builds if that would be any use. Just let me know! Thanks.
Have the installation issues been cleaned out?
JBG
On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 09:15:47 +0000, ""Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"" johannbg@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/02/2011 07:01 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Ah - if I'd've known a couple of days ago we could have changed the date, but I've sent announcements out to quite a few places now so I think we're locked in. The good news is we can do custom live spins for the test day, so even if you can't get it done in time for the nightly builds, we can fire off some custom builds. I am ridiculously tired right now but I'll be in IRC tomorrow, I'll join GIMPnet so I can come in the desktop channel in case you need to sync up with me. I can help do some builds if that would be any use. Just let me know! Thanks.
Have the installation issues been cleaned out?
I don't think we have figured that bug out yet. However, the impact on gnome3 testing show be low. People can test gnome3 from the liveimage or do a network install using the boot.iso image if they really want.
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 09:15 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
On 02/02/2011 07:01 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Ah - if I'd've known a couple of days ago we could have changed the date, but I've sent announcements out to quite a few places now so I think we're locked in. The good news is we can do custom live spins for the test day, so even if you can't get it done in time for the nightly builds, we can fire off some custom builds. I am ridiculously tired right now but I'll be in IRC tomorrow, I'll join GIMPnet so I can come in the desktop channel in case you need to sync up with me. I can help do some builds if that would be any use. Just let me know! Thanks.
Have the installation issues been cleaned out?
I don't know. as Bruno said, the intention is for the testing to be possible (almost) entirely without installation, and that should be the case.
Am 2011-02-02 18:00, schrieb Adam Williamson:
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 09:15 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
On 02/02/2011 07:01 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Ah - if I'd've known a couple of days ago we could have changed the date, but I've sent announcements out to quite a few places now so I think we're locked in. The good news is we can do custom live spins for the test day, so even if you can't get it done in time for the nightly builds, we can fire off some custom builds. I am ridiculously tired right now but I'll be in IRC tomorrow, I'll join GIMPnet so I can come in the desktop channel in case you need to sync up with me. I can help do some builds if that would be any use. Just let me know! Thanks.
Have the installation issues been cleaned out?
I don't know. as Bruno said, the intention is for the testing to be possible (almost) entirely without installation, and that should be the case.
Sill, I guess, a lot of potential testers might be put off by not being able to install
On 02/02/2011 05:00 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 09:15 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
On 02/02/2011 07:01 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Ah - if I'd've known a couple of days ago we could have changed the date, but I've sent announcements out to quite a few places now so I think we're locked in. The good news is we can do custom live spins for the test day, so even if you can't get it done in time for the nightly builds, we can fire off some custom builds. I am ridiculously tired right now but I'll be in IRC tomorrow, I'll join GIMPnet so I can come in the desktop channel in case you need to sync up with me. I can help do some builds if that would be any use. Just let me know! Thanks.
Have the installation issues been cleaned out?
I don't know. as Bruno said, the intention is for the testing to be possible (almost) entirely without installation, and that should be the case.
Of course those that are using USB Flash drive can create one with persistent storage to get a closer to actual install behaviour but we loose any early Gnome Shell adopters which might shed light on some usage bugs that the test case don't cover which you only find by an actual usage.
I'm pretty sure alot of bugs filed against Gnome components will be related to UI Designs decisions rather than actual code breakage by reporters for instance somehow the UI Designers forgot all about those that close the lid and leave the computer on for download or are forced to close the lid in class when the teacher or professors ask them too and then need to get immediately back on to type something down thus cant wait for suspend/resume time/breakage which is a *Design feature* as Richard mention on his blog "In GNOME 3.0, we’re defaulting to suspending the computer when the user shuts the lid, and not providing any preferences combobox to change this. This is what the UI designers for GNOME 3.0 want " I for example would file a bug against this.
Another example of a potential bug or a *Design feature* is when you go to system settings --> User Account and you create a new user and are forced to choose the login name for the user from a list of user names based on the full name you enter for the user or is this an actual bug that you cannot type whatever username you like for the user? Bug vs Design battle. .. .
Anyway back on track we might want to downgrade smolt since it's not working due to bug 672971 that is if smolt profile is needed ( which I expect to ) another thing was mentioned on our QA IRC from a reporter was a lack of IRC client in current Gnome Live but I think the reporter did not realize that you can do irc with empathy.
Reporters have already begun jump starting the test day http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-03_GNOME3_Alpha#cite_note-11 and reported some early birds bugs.
We also need to have any updates to current packages present as updates tomorrow and not just be on specifically composed test day LiveCD to prevent/reduce any duplication and reports of bugs that may already be fixed it's always better that reporters are testing as close to the same bits..
JBG
On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 18:47:14 +0000, ""Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"" johannbg@gmail.com wrote:
We also need to have any updates to current packages present as updates tomorrow and not just be on specifically composed test day LiveCD to prevent/reduce any duplication and reports of bugs that may already be fixed it's always better that reporters are testing as close to the same bits..
The desktop spin did not build again today for the nightly composes. The one I am running at home looks like it will build. So there is some hope for tomorrow. Note that the latest set of builds are being done on a rawhide machine which might impact the install to disk problem. I'm getting the KDA spin from the nightlies to see if the problem is fixed there.
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 18:47 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
Have the installation issues been cleaned out?
I don't know. as Bruno said, the intention is for the testing to be possible (almost) entirely without installation, and that should be the case.
Of course those that are using USB Flash drive can create one with persistent storage to get a closer to actual install behaviour but we loose any early Gnome Shell adopters which might shed light on some usage bugs that the test case don't cover which you only find by an actual usage.
Sure. There's nothing we can do about that as the desktop team / QA team, though. Really all you're saying is 'I wish the anaconda team would fix the installer faster', it has nothing in particular to do with this test day or with GNOME in general.
I'm pretty sure alot of bugs filed against Gnome components will be related to UI Designs decisions rather than actual code breakage by reporters
I have added several warnings to the Wiki page to try and avoid this, take a look.
for instance somehow the UI Designers forgot all about those that close the lid and leave the computer on for download or are forced to close the lid in class when the teacher or professors ask them too and then need to get immediately back on to type something down thus cant wait for suspend/resume time/breakage which is a *Design feature* as Richard mention on his blog "In GNOME 3.0, we’re defaulting to suspending the computer when the user shuts the lid, and not providing any preferences combobox to change this. This is what the UI designers for GNOME 3.0 want " I for example would file a bug against this.
Please start a new thread about this, I'd rather not derail the test day discussion. (FWIW, I agree with you to a degree: I do not want to suspend my laptop when it's plugged into the mains and I close the screen. I just do it to keep things tidy on my desk, and to turn off the panel to save a bit of power and not uselessly run the panel and reduce its lifespan and potentially cause screen burn. You will be able to configure this from dconf, though, I'm guessing. I'd say it'd be perfectly legitimate for people to file a bug on this, actually. I don't think the design has been well thought through, if it applies when on AC as well as when on battery power.)
Another example of a potential bug or a *Design feature* is when you go to system settings --> User Account and you create a new user and are forced to choose the login name for the user from a list of user names based on the full name you enter for the user or is this an actual bug that you cannot type whatever username you like for the user? Bug vs Design battle. .. .
As I advise on the page, the best thing to do is ask in IRC before filing a bug; I'm hoping there will be a few GNOME devs around all day to help answer such questions. (If you're a Fedora / GNOME dev on this list, please do try and find some time to hang out in the channel to help with this, it'd be really useful!)
Anyway back on track we might want to downgrade smolt since it's not working due to bug 672971 that is if smolt profile is needed ( which I expect to )
I've fixed this (applied jlaska's fix and pushed a fixed build through to Rawhide), so it should make the test day image.
another thing was mentioned on our QA IRC from a reporter was a lack of IRC client in current Gnome Live but I think the reporter did not realize that you can do irc with empathy.
Yup.
Reporters have already begun jump starting the test day http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-03_GNOME3_Alpha#cite_note-11 and reported some early birds bugs.
Indeed, which is great, but I hope they all come back and test again when the full test case set is up!
I've written two new test cases so far:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_generic_video_glx https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_gnome-shell_favorites
and am working on the others. If anyone wants to help out, please do: my scratch list of test cases to work on is http://fpaste.org/N8si/ . please just find me on IRC to co-ordinate and make sure we don't duplicate effort, and the test cases are clean and added correctly to the test day page. thanks!
We also need to have any updates to current packages present as updates tomorrow and not just be on specifically composed test day LiveCD to prevent/reduce any duplication and reports of bugs that may already be fixed it's always better that reporters are testing as close to the same bits..
yup, that's below getting the live image right on my priority list, though - I anticipate most people will test using the live image, it's usually the case, especially before we have an Alpha out. I'll try and have instructions on the page for installing all necessary updates that don't make it into tonight's Rawhide compose.
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 21:08 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
So I guess I'll start building 2.91.6 in the dist-f15-gnome3 tag and we'll see how far I get before tomorrow ends.
An update on this:
I've now built most of the gtk3 dependencies, with the following exceptions: deja-dup emerillon gnomeradio libindicator rhythmbox sound-juicer webkitgtk3 yelp devhelp empathy epiphany
At this point, I am mostly waiting for a webkit release, to get the last 5 of these built, after that, I think we are good to tag things over. The others on the list failed with various issues, vala, brasero includes, etc.
As for the rest of GNOME 2.91.6, the new gnome-panel will probably not land today, since we need a libwnck3 package first, and the new gdm needs a lot of patch juggling etc, so may also not make it in today.
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 17:10 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
As for the rest of GNOME 2.91.6, the new gnome-panel will probably not land today, since we need a libwnck3 package first, and the new gdm needs a lot of patch juggling etc, so may also not make it in today.
gdm we're okay with if the old one will at least launch stuff (it seems to now, so that oughtn't to be a problem). gnome-panel is an issue though because of the dependency of shell on panel, to allow fallback.
best option, obviously, is to fix it somehow - get the new panel in or at least somehow rebuild the old panel so it's there.
second best...drop the dependency temporarily so we can at least spin/install the new shell stuff, even if then we can't test the fallback?
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 14:20 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 17:10 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
As for the rest of GNOME 2.91.6, the new gnome-panel will probably not land today, since we need a libwnck3 package first, and the new gdm needs a lot of patch juggling etc, so may also not make it in today.
gdm we're okay with if the old one will at least launch stuff (it seems to now, so that oughtn't to be a problem). gnome-panel is an issue though because of the dependency of shell on panel, to allow fallback.
best option, obviously, is to fix it somehow - get the new panel in or at least somehow rebuild the old panel so it's there.
second best...drop the dependency temporarily so we can at least spin/install the new shell stuff, even if then we can't test the fallback?
oh, if it's just an issue of waiting for compose times, if you put the necessary libwnck3 and gnome-panel builds in a side repo somewhere, we can spin a custom live image which includes them.
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