4:38 p.m.
So, I compared the LiveCD manifest against the Desktop (from Test1)
manifest. Here's a list of things we should consider for the live -
obviously, most of this won't fit (not sure if *any* of it will), but
we should at least think about it and make decisions. Sorted into
somewhat random categories:
I18N
----
aspell-*
m17n-db-*
scim-qtimm
scim-tables-chinese
Games
-----
atomix
celestia
crack-attack
enigma
foobillard
gweled
lmarbles
monkey-bubble
neverball
Stupid CLI but useful
---------------------
attr
bind-utils
Potentially broken without
--------------------------
crontabs
termcap
gnome-screensaver
pcmciautils
Things we want/need to install (even if they aren't running 'live')
------------------------------
logrotate
mdadm
smolt
nfs-utils
readahead
rhgb
A11Y
----
gok
Is dialup dead?
---------------
ppp
rp-pppoe
wvdial
Desktop things that might be useful
-----------------------------------
beagle-evolution
beagle-gui
bitmap-fonts
bug-buddy
deskbar-applet
glabels
gnome-audio
gnome-backgrounds
gnome-blog
gnome-keyring-manager
gnome-nettool
gnome-pilot-conduits
gnome-system-monitor
gnome-user-docs
gnome-user-share
gobby
hpijs
hplip
nautilus-sendto
nautilus-sendto-bluetooth
samba-client
sane-backends
sane-frontends
transmission
We need to decide
-----------------
livecd has xchat
desktop has xchat-gnome
Bill
5:07 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 17:38 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
gnome-screensaver
At least gnome-screensaver is needed - FC7t1 shipped without... so
installs from that never locked the screen.
A11Y
----
gok
orca too, probably even more important (not sure whether it was removed
for FC7t1 cuz it drags in festival which is huge). Another point is that
we need to work making a11y easy to enable for live cd.
My plan at this point includes making the live cd boot into an
accessible gdm with a face browser (we're probably going to enable face
browser by default btw - for f-u-s). Then a11y / language / keyboard can
be configured / enabled there.
So starting the live cd would amount to clicking the fedora-livecd face
(potentially we'd do readahead while waiting for the user) Needs some
thought and experimentation, but I think this is doable.
livecd has xchat
desktop has xchat-gnome
Stick with gaim? Again, a space issue...
David
5:06 p.m.
David Zeuthen (david(a)fubar.dk) said:
orca too, probably even more important (not sure whether it was
removed
for FC7t1 cuz it drags in festival which is huge). Another point is that
we need to work making a11y easy to enable for live cd.
orca's already there.
> livecd has xchat
> desktop has xchat-gnome
Stick with gaim? Again, a space issue...
It's certainly an option.
Bill
5:16 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 18:07 -0500, David Zeuthen wrote:
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 17:38 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> gnome-screensaver
At least gnome-screensaver is needed - FC7t1 shipped without... so
installs from that never locked the screen.
Yeah, I had to drop the extra xscreensaver screensavers and they were
the only thing pulling in gnome-screensaver... this is why I really
think that we need/want to move to the same type of manifest format as
pungi where we reference things based on comps groups. In my queue for
real soon; now that the yum depsolving stuff is out of the way, I'm
getting back to livecd with a bit of a vengeance.
> A11Y
> ----
> gok
orca too, probably even more important (not sure whether it was removed
for FC7t1 cuz it drags in festival which is huge).
Yeah, the space requirement of festival makes it (and the things which
depend on it, including gok) a lot less attractive. :-/ Not sure what
to do on that front
> livecd has xchat
> desktop has xchat-gnome
Stick with gaim? Again, a space issue...
Seems like a sane enough compromise
Jeremy
5:23 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 18:16 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> orca too, probably even more important (not sure whether it was
removed
> for FC7t1 cuz it drags in festival which is huge).
Yeah, the space requirement of festival makes it (and the things which
depend on it, including gok) a lot less attractive. :-/ Not sure what
to do on that front
Right. It feels like selling out willfully not making the live cd usable
for users that needs accessibility. So it's not really an option to
leave this out I think... plus section 508 is about to be refreshed etc.
David
5:31 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 18:23 -0500, David Zeuthen wrote:
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 18:16 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> > orca too, probably even more important (not sure whether it was removed
> > for FC7t1 cuz it drags in festival which is huge).
>
> Yeah, the space requirement of festival makes it (and the things which
> depend on it, including gok) a lot less attractive. :-/ Not sure what
> to do on that front
Right. It feels like selling out willfully not making the live cd usable
for users that needs accessibility. So it's not really an option to
leave this out I think... plus section 508 is about to be refreshed etc.
The question is how can we do it while minimizing the space
requirements. Are there changes we can make to festival so that it
isn't humongous? Can we split the package up so that we only require a
base set of stuff?
Jeremy
6:31 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 18:31 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
The question is how can we do it while minimizing the space
requirements. Are there changes we can make to festival so that it
isn't humongous? Can we split the package up so that we only require a
base set of stuff?
Well, this is something we ought to do for all of our packages on a
continual basis - something, btw, I spent time on when I was working on
OLPC (*cough* the X server pulling in perl?!? *cough*).
Anyway, I'll look at the a11y stuff but probably won't have time until
after T2 is out...
David
9:43 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 06:16:35PM -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> orca too, probably even more important (not sure whether it was
removed
> for FC7t1 cuz it drags in festival which is huge).
Yeah, the space requirement of festival makes it (and the things which
depend on it, including gok) a lot less attractive. :-/ Not sure what
to do on that front
Festival could by split up so some or all of the voices are in a subpackage.
I'm not hugely versed in the technical details, but the CMU ARCTIC HTS
voices sound great to me (better than the only free alternatives, the older
and much larger kal_diphone and ked_diphone ones). We could probably get
away with just including the CMU ARCTIC SLT voice (female US English
speaker), which is the smallest at 1756k. That alone would save us half the
size of the package.
Plus, the speech-tools binaries (in libexec) probably aren't needed by
almost everyone. And that's pretty significant.
*And*, there's some stuff packaged up under /usr/share/festival/dicts that I
think maybe doesn't need to be. For example, there's a 118K *patch* in
there, plus the 3.6M file that's getting patched. (cmudict-0.4.diff and
cmudict-0.4.scm). I assume that's done to fulfill the "Any modifications
must be clearly marked as such" clause in the license for the data files in
that directory -- probably that could be done in a somewhat smaller way.
Oh, and some stuff in /usr/share/festival/etc which is "etc" in the "misc
et cetera crap" sense, not the "config files" sense.
So, doing all of that would bring the package down to 16M from 54M (on
x86_64).
Someone who knew the package better and/or had more than a minimal working
knowledge of Lisp could probably pare down and/or subpackage non-core
functionality even further -- I bet the minimal-but-useful set is under 10M.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
10:05 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 10:43:47PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 06:16:35PM -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
> > orca too, probably even more important (not sure whether it was removed
> > for FC7t1 cuz it drags in festival which is huge).
> Yeah, the space requirement of festival makes it (and the things which
> depend on it, including gok) a lot less attractive. :-/ Not sure what
> to do on that front
Festival could by split up so some or all of the voices are in a subpackage.
Filed all this as bug #229442. Because it's a good idea livecd or no. :)
--
Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
9:10 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 05:38:31PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Stupid CLI but useful
---------------------
[...]
bind-utils
Can we split this out to *just* contain "host"? :)
Is dialup dead?
---------------
ppp
rp-pppoe
wvdial
rp-pppoe is for ADSL, not dialup. But I think the widespread use of cheap gateway
router boxes has made this less of an issue.
--
Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
8:06 a.m.
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 22:10 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Feb 20, 2007 at 05:38:31PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Stupid CLI but useful
> ---------------------
[...]
> bind-utils
Can we split this out to *just* contain "host"? :)
> Is dialup dead?
> ---------------
> ppp
> rp-pppoe
> wvdial
rp-pppoe is for ADSL, not dialup. But I think the widespread use of cheap gateway
router boxes has made this less of an issue.
I guess it's a good thing to think of "dialup" as containing ADSL as
well (connecting to the Internet is what matters to users). For me, any
OS where I can't go online doesn't cut it. And yes, I have a WLAN router
box, but no I don't use it as such ;-).
Nils
--
Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp(a)redhat.com
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011
11:35 a.m.
On Fri, Feb 23, 2007 at 03:06:47PM +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
I guess it's a good thing to think of "dialup" as
containing ADSL as
well (connecting to the Internet is what matters to users). For me, any
OS where I can't go online doesn't cut it. And yes, I have a WLAN router
box, but no I don't use it as such ;-).
Does your ISP require pppoe?
--
Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
10:31 a.m.
On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 12:35 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Fri, Feb 23, 2007 at 03:06:47PM +0100, Nils Philippsen wrote:
> I guess it's a good thing to think of "dialup" as containing ADSL as
> well (connecting to the Internet is what matters to users). For me, any
> OS where I can't go online doesn't cut it. And yes, I have a WLAN router
> box, but no I don't use it as such ;-).
Does your ISP require pppoe?
Yes. I've yet to see an ISP in Germany not requiring PPPoe if you want
to do DSL -- perhaps there are some because I've got an old DSL modem
with a connector for ATM besides the Ethernet one.
Nils
--
Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp(a)redhat.com
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759
PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011
2:25 a.m.
Matthew Miller scripst:
> Is dialup dead?
> ---------------
> ppp
> rp-pppoe
> wvdial
No, it quite certainly isn't -- here in the Czech republic, some cell
phone operators provide quite sensibly priced plan for connecting over
PCMCIA cards, which are quite often emulating modem, so you have to use
ppp/wvdial.
Matej
--
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How many Bavarian Illuminati does it take to screw in a light
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Three: one to screw it in, and one to confuse the issue.
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14 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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Bill Nottingham -
David Zeuthen -
David Zeuthen -
Jeremy Katz -
Matej Cepl -
Matthew Miller -
Nils Philippsen