Hi all,
In Fedora 20, Shotwell was the default image viewer and no other image viewer was installed. In F21 Shotwell is still the default, but now Image Viewer (eog) is installed as well. This doesn't make any sense since Image Viewer serves no purpose unless it's the default image handler, whereas Shotwell is more useful for previewing and organizing a collection of photos.
We've also recently noticed that gthumb looks like a nice alternative to Shotwell. I propose we do one of the following:
* Replace Shotwell with gthumb, and remove Image Viewer. * Replace Shotwell with gthumb, but keep Image Viewer as the default image viewer. * Remove Shotwell, and keep Image Viewer as the only image viewer.
Opinions welcome.
You might notice that I'm gunning for Shotwell here. It looks a lot older than gthumb, and seems to have mostly the same functionality. (Make sure to check out gthumb in F21, not F20. You wouldn't know they were the same app due to the huge changes.) Image Viewer, in contrast, is a simple app for just previewing images, which is a different purpose, but I think gthumb can also serve this purpose just as well while looking nicer.
There are other options, of course, which I am less fond of:
* Remove Image Viewer. (Shotwell remains.) * Make Image Viewer the default image viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
Either of these would be more sensible than keeping Image Viewer if it is not the default image viewer.
GNOME Photos is notably not one of the apps we're considering. We've been told it's not ready yet.
Michael
fwiw I'm indifferent on which solution is the right one, but if we ship with eog it must be the default mimetype handler for image files. If it isn't, then it shouldn't be shipped at all.
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 01:00 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
fwiw I'm indifferent on which solution is the right one, but if we ship with eog it must be the default mimetype handler for image files. If it isn't, then it shouldn't be shipped at all
Absolutely. It makes no sense to ship eog otherwise.
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 11:00 PM, Elad Alfassa elad@fedoraproject.org wrote:
fwiw I'm indifferent on which solution is the right one, but if we ship with eog it must be the default mimetype handler for image files. If it isn't, then it shouldn't be shipped at all.
I think it makes sense to make eog the default image viewer, there's a lot of images people view that they won't want to import into a management app, but I think it makes sense to ship both.
Peter
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 08:00 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
I think it makes sense to make eog the default image viewer, there's a lot of images people view that they won't want to import into a management app, but I think it makes sense to ship both.
Are you suggesting Shotwell over gthumb? If so, why? gthumb does a much better job of conforming to our HIG than eog and Shotwell, and it seems to have a comparable feature set to Shotwell.
I think gthumb probably does good enough at previewing images without looking like a photo manager (unless you press the back button, you may not even realize it does photo management if you only use it for previewing images) that we may not need eog at all. I was hoping to hear some more opinions on this.
Michael
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 08:55 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
Are you suggesting Shotwell over gthumb? If so, why? gthumb does a much better job of conforming to our HIG than eog and Shotwell, and it seems to have a comparable feature set to Shotwell.
I've used Shotwell quite extensively and don't understand why you are advocating so strongly against it being the default photo *management* application?
I understand the point that Shotwell Previewer isn't really suited for being the default image viewer. But as a photo management application, Shotwell has some nice features: - non-destructive photo editing (it doesn't touch your original photos, edits are stored in a database and applied on the fly) - simple adjusting of the time and date of multiple photos at once - automatic grouping of photos into events based on the time taken - organizing photos by events, tags or via the file system hierarchy
I didn't have the time to test the new gThumb and I only saw the screenshots, so please tell me, how does gThumb compare in the above areas?
Regards, Tadej
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 19:47 +0200, Tadej Janež wrote:
I've used Shotwell quite extensively and don't understand why you are advocating so strongly against it being the default photo *management* application?
Because gthumb is a photo management application as well, which fulfills the same role as Shotwell but with a dramatically better user interface. I know Shotwell will be getting a much-needed redesign soon, but it will be for the Elementary HIG, not GNOME's.
It doesn't help Shotwell's case that it doesn't seem to work at all in F21 -- I can't seem to import any photos -- but this is probably a bug that will be fixed. Hopefully.
I understand the point that Shotwell Previewer isn't really suited for being the default image viewer. But as a photo management application, Shotwell has some nice features:
- non-destructive photo editing (it doesn't touch your original
photos, edits are stored in a database and applied on the fly)
Point for Shotwell. :( gthumb does have "Save As" though. :p
- simple adjusting of the time and date of multiple photos at once
gthumb can do this. Looks like it can also bulk rotate and resize, bulk convert to another file format, or run an arbitrary script over the files.
- automatic grouping of photos into events based on the time taken
I think gthumb does not do this.
- organizing photos by events, tags or via the file system hierarchy
Same with gthumb, though it uses the term "catalog" instead of "event."
Hope that helps,
Michael
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 17:28 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
- automatic grouping of photos into events based on the time taken
I think gthumb does not do this.
- organizing photos by events, tags or via the file system hierarchy
Well, it can organize events by date into catalogues. I just checked this out. Click on the "organize" button on the top right.
Same with gthumb, though it uses the term "catalog" instead of "event."
The one thing I don't like in gthumb is that it doesn't list recursively. For example, even after all my photos have been catalogued, if I click on 2014 - it shows *nothing*. I have to go down to the leaf node of the tree - the exact date - to see photos. This isn't very convenient. In shotwell, if you click on a year, it shows all events from the year. I'll file an RFE if others would like this behaviour as much as I would.
I totally agree that gthumb fits in better with the rest of gnome. I really hope shotwell will too after the facelift.
Oh, just a note - the shotwell crashing bug has been filed already: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734262
Just a addition: Right now, at least for me, Shotwell isn't working. It can't import anything, and kinda freezes (Fedora 21, Shotwell 0.19.0).
Em Seg, 2014-08-25 às 16:40 -0500, Michael Catanzaro escreveu:
Hi all,
In Fedora 20, Shotwell was the default image viewer and no other image viewer was installed. In F21 Shotwell is still the default, but now Image Viewer (eog) is installed as well. This doesn't make any sense since Image Viewer serves no purpose unless it's the default image handler, whereas Shotwell is more useful for previewing and organizing a collection of photos.
We've also recently noticed that gthumb looks like a nice alternative to Shotwell. I propose we do one of the following:
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, and remove Image Viewer.
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, but keep Image Viewer as the default
image viewer.
- Remove Shotwell, and keep Image Viewer as the only image viewer.
Opinions welcome.
You might notice that I'm gunning for Shotwell here. It looks a lot older than gthumb, and seems to have mostly the same functionality. (Make sure to check out gthumb in F21, not F20. You wouldn't know they were the same app due to the huge changes.) Image Viewer, in contrast, is a simple app for just previewing images, which is a different purpose, but I think gthumb can also serve this purpose just as well while looking nicer.
There are other options, of course, which I am less fond of:
- Remove Image Viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
- Make Image Viewer the default image viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
Either of these would be more sensible than keeping Image Viewer if it is not the default image viewer.
GNOME Photos is notably not one of the apps we're considering. We've been told it's not ready yet.
Michael
desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Mon, 2014-08-25 at 19:11 -0300, Diogo Campos (gmail) wrote:
Just a addition: Right now, at least for me, Shotwell isn't working. It can't import anything, and kinda freezes (Fedora 21, Shotwell 0.19.0).
+1
A bug is filed here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734262
Em Ter, 2014-08-26 às 10:18 +1000, Ankur Sinha escreveu:
On Mon, 2014-08-25 at 19:11 -0300, Diogo Campos (gmail) wrote:
Just a addition: Right now, at least for me, Shotwell isn't working. It can't import anything, and kinda freezes (Fedora 21, Shotwell 0.19.0).
+1
A bug is filed here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734262
I owe you this. Thanks :)
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
Hi all,
In Fedora 20, Shotwell was the default image viewer and no other image viewer was installed. In F21 Shotwell is still the default, but now Image Viewer (eog) is installed as well. This doesn't make any sense since Image Viewer serves no purpose unless it's the default image handler, whereas Shotwell is more useful for previewing and organizing a collection of photos.
We've also recently noticed that gthumb looks like a nice alternative to Shotwell. I propose we do one of the following:
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, and remove Image Viewer.
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, but keep Image Viewer as the default
image viewer.
- Remove Shotwell, and keep Image Viewer as the only image viewer.
Opinions welcome.
You might notice that I'm gunning for Shotwell here. It looks a lot older than gthumb, and seems to have mostly the same functionality. (Make sure to check out gthumb in F21, not F20. You wouldn't know they were the same app due to the huge changes.) Image Viewer, in contrast, is a simple app for just previewing images, which is a different purpose, but I think gthumb can also serve this purpose just as well while looking nicer.
There are other options, of course, which I am less fond of:
- Remove Image Viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
- Make Image Viewer the default image viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
Either of these would be more sensible than keeping Image Viewer if it is not the default image viewer.
GNOME Photos is notably not one of the apps we're considering. We've been told it's not ready yet.
Image viewers and photo managers are two separate applications for different use cases. The first is an essential tool for an operating system and usually launched from other programs, like the file manager or e-mail client, while a photo manager doesn't seem essential anymore given Fedora Workstation's target audience.
It makes sense to me to offer the photo management applications (gThumb, Shotwell, GNOME Photos, F-Spot, etc) in Software for those who want one and only install an essential image viewer by default. eog would be the immediate choice, since it has a simple user interface that fits well with the rest of GNOME. It's already a core component of GNOME so it would fit perfectly with the rest of Fedora, and comes with great documentation, i18n and a11y support.
-- Evandro
Hi Evandro,
On Aug 25, 2014 6:33 PM, "Evandro Giovanini" efgiovanini@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org
wrote:
Hi all,
In Fedora 20, Shotwell was the default image viewer and no other image viewer was installed. In F21 Shotwell is still the default, but now Image Viewer (eog) is installed as well. This doesn't make any sense since Image Viewer serves no purpose unless it's the default image handler, whereas Shotwell is more useful for previewing and organizing a collection of photos.
We've also recently noticed that gthumb looks like a nice alternative to Shotwell. I propose we do one of the following:
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, and remove Image Viewer.
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, but keep Image Viewer as the default
image viewer.
- Remove Shotwell, and keep Image Viewer as the only image viewer.
Opinions welcome.
You might notice that I'm gunning for Shotwell here. It looks a lot older than gthumb, and seems to have mostly the same functionality. (Make sure to check out gthumb in F21, not F20. You wouldn't know they were the same app due to the huge changes.) Image Viewer, in contrast, is a simple app for just previewing images, which is a different purpose, but I think gthumb can also serve this purpose just as well while looking nicer.
There are other options, of course, which I am less fond of:
- Remove Image Viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
- Make Image Viewer the default image viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
Either of these would be more sensible than keeping Image Viewer if it is not the default image viewer.
GNOME Photos is notably not one of the apps we're considering. We've been told it's not ready yet.
Image viewers and photo managers are two separate applications for
different use cases. The first is an essential tool for an operating system and usually launched from other programs, like the file manager or e-mail client, while a photo manager doesn't seem essential anymore given Fedora Workstation's target audience.
With regards to image previews I'd like to bring up the sushi utility. That would seem to provide the bare minimum reqs for a previewer, and doesn't require a new "app" to open. The only issue with it is that the utility itself is so hidden. Dolphin offers a nice way to preview files with their third panel, so, perhaps, something similar might be arranged with Nautilus in the long term? Your second point is one that I was about to mention myself. Photo management seems like pointless bloat for a development environment, especially when install is so easy. The lack of such an app seems unlikely to halt a typical development task, and that criteria seems the only important consideration.
Best/Liam
On Mon, 2014-08-25 at 19:12 -0400, Liam wrote:
With regards to image previews I'd like to bring up the sushi utility. That would seem to provide the bare minimum reqs for a previewer, and doesn't require a new "app" to open. The only issue with it is that the utility itself is so hidden. Dolphin offers a nice way to preview files with their third panel, so, perhaps, something similar might be arranged with Nautilus in the long term?
sushi is a nice previewer, but I don't think it's a replacement for an image viewer app any more than it's a replacement for the document viewer or video player.
Your second point is one that I was about to mention myself. Photo management seems like pointless bloat for a development environment, especially when install is so easy. The lack of such an app seems unlikely to halt a typical development task, and that criteria seems the only important consideration.
I personally don't care whether we install a photo management app or not. It doesn't seem necessary to me, but it is something we've always done and which our primary competitor does (Ubuntu uses Shotwell).
On Aug 26, 2014 12:13 AM, "Michael Catanzaro" mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Mon, 2014-08-25 at 19:12 -0400, Liam wrote:
With regards to image previews I'd like to bring up the sushi utility. That would seem to provide the bare minimum reqs for a previewer, and doesn't require a new "app" to open. The only issue with it is that the utility itself is so hidden. Dolphin offers a nice way to preview files with their third panel, so, perhaps, something similar might be arranged with Nautilus in the long term?
sushi is a nice previewer, but I don't think it's a replacement for an image viewer app any more than it's a replacement for the document viewer or video player.
What's the use case? What functionality are the target users expecting from an image viewer? My experience is I only ever use such apps for rather quick assessments of images. For more than that I open a dedicated editor. Does a image viewer need to do more than just show an image (possibly along with metadata)?
Your second point is one that I was about to mention myself. Photo management seems like pointless bloat for a development environment, especially when install is so easy. The lack of such an app seems unlikely to halt a typical development task, and that criteria seems the only important consideration.
I personally don't care whether we install a photo management app or not. It doesn't seem necessary to me, but it is something we've always done and which our primary competitor does (Ubuntu uses Shotwell).
We've also been installing the firewall utility for awhile. Our target audience isn't the same as Ubuntu's.
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 01:10 -0400, Liam wrote:
What's the use case? What functionality are the target users expecting from an image viewer? My experience is I only ever use such apps for rather quick assessments of images. For more than that I open a dedicated editor. Does a image viewer need to do more than just show an image (possibly along with metadata)?
With eog you can look at multiple images in multiple windows. I guess sushi could do this too but you'd need to open a new nautilus window each time. Then don't ever hit space.
We could also drop totem and evince if we're planning to use sushi as the only means for previewing files. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
It's also not discoverable at all. You wouldn't know it's there unless someone told you. And the theme is currently a broken mess. :(
On Aug 26, 2014 9:54 AM, "Michael Catanzaro" mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 01:10 -0400, Liam wrote:
What's the use case? What functionality are the target users expecting from an image viewer? My experience is I only ever use such apps for rather quick assessments of images. For more than that I open a dedicated editor. Does a image viewer need to do more than just show an image (possibly along with metadata)?
With eog you can look at multiple images in multiple windows. I guess sushi could do this too but you'd need to open a new nautilus window each time. Then don't ever hit space.
This is a good point, as a don't tend to view multiple images at once very often. Still, seems odd to keep an app installed for that specific use case.
We could also drop totem and evince if we're planning to use sushi as the only means for previewing files. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
I actually I do tend to use sushi more than evince/totem for quick work, but I wasn't suggesting the above, yet. There's a few issues with sushi, as you've mentioned, that would need to be worked out first (discoverability, performance, metadata display, etc).
It's also not discoverable at all. You wouldn't know it's there unless someone told you. And the theme is currently a broken mess. :(
This was my big concern (not the theme but discoverability). That's why I mentioned the way dolphin (which, IMHO, is the best file manager on Linux, and I don't even use KDE) handles things. Having a larger preview in the right panel, along with metadata, and a way of full screening the file is a very nice way to quickly assess things. Once again, I think this is a longer term project, but I wanted to mention it since I find sushi incredibly handy, and no one had mentioned it yet. In the meantime, I'd drop shotwell and go with either eog or gthumb, but with the proviso that this whole issue should be reexamined at some point.
Best/Liam
On 08/26/2014 09:54 AM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 01:10 -0400, Liam wrote:
What's the use case? What functionality are the target users expecting from an image viewer? My experience is I only ever use such apps for rather quick assessments of images. For more than that I open a dedicated editor. Does a image viewer need to do more than just show an image (possibly along with metadata)?
With eog you can look at multiple images in multiple windows. I guess sushi could do this too but you'd need to open a new nautilus window each time. Then don't ever hit space.
Just out of curiosity (and I hope this doesn't drag the thread somewhere unuseful, if so I continue further off-list) -
What's the context for multiple images in multiple windows? Are you doing comparison work? Something else? Is it a very frequent use case?
~m
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On 08/26/2014 09:54 AM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 01:10 -0400, Liam wrote:
What's the use case? What functionality are the target users expecting from an image viewer? My experience is I only ever use such apps for rather quick assessments of images. For more than that I open a dedicated editor. Does a image viewer need to do more than just show an image (possibly along with metadata)?
With eog you can look at multiple images in multiple windows. I guess sushi could do this too but you'd need to open a new nautilus window each time. Then don't ever hit space.
Just out of curiosity (and I hope this doesn't drag the thread somewhere unuseful, if so I continue further off-list) -
What's the context for multiple images in multiple windows? Are you doing comparison work? Something else? Is it a very frequent use case?
For me two things:
1) Yes comparison ... lets say you took a few photographs and want to pick one. While flicking between images helps sometimes you'd want to see them side by side.
2) Different context ... I am viewing image x on workspace 1 that has something to do with the task on that specific workspace ... if I for whatever reason view an image on a different workspace (different task / context) I don't want to replace the already opened unrelated one .. that'd be just inconvenient.
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 16:49 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Just out of curiosity (and I hope this doesn't drag the thread somewhere unuseful, if so I continue further off-list) -
What's the context for multiple images in multiple windows? Are you doing comparison work? Something else? Is it a very frequent use case?
I just want to be able to look at two different images at once. With sushi that'd be pretty awkward.
Hey,
----- Original Message -----
Hi all,
In Fedora 20, Shotwell was the default image viewer and no other image viewer was installed. In F21 Shotwell is still the default, but now Image Viewer (eog) is installed as well. This doesn't make any sense since Image Viewer serves no purpose unless it's the default image handler, whereas Shotwell is more useful for previewing and organizing a collection of photos.
We've also recently noticed that gthumb looks like a nice alternative to Shotwell. I propose we do one of the following:
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, and remove Image Viewer.
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, but keep Image Viewer as the default
image viewer.
- Remove Shotwell, and keep Image Viewer as the only image viewer.
Opinions welcome.
You might notice that I'm gunning for Shotwell here. It looks a lot older than gthumb, and seems to have mostly the same functionality. (Make sure to check out gthumb in F21, not F20. You wouldn't know they were the same app due to the huge changes.) Image Viewer, in contrast, is a simple app for just previewing images, which is a different purpose, but I think gthumb can also serve this purpose just as well while looking nicer.
There are other options, of course, which I am less fond of:
- Remove Image Viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
- Make Image Viewer the default image viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
Either of these would be more sensible than keeping Image Viewer if it is not the default image viewer.
GNOME Photos is notably not one of the apps we're considering. We've been told it's not ready yet.
A couple of things: - We used shotwell's viewer, not shotwell by default. It's a different mode of the same binary, but it's not shotwell itself. - eog was already installed by default when we added Shotwell to F16, and shotwell was made the default for the image types it handled
So my questions would be: - Is gnome-photos going to have a "display/preview" mode, that doesn't import in the library? Something that's fast enough to launch for multiple images? Can we yield on that? - Is gnome-documents going to get similar support for opening PDFs/etc. without opening them (but giving the opportunity to add them to the "library")? - Should we remove evince from the default installation then?
Personally, I'd keep it as-is for now, and remove both Shotwell (and its viewer) and eog from the default installation once gnome-photos can be installed by default.
The core applications we ship don't need to be the most complete ones (I know that vlc has more features than Videos, or evince than gnome-documents), but they need to cover the 90% of usage.
Cheers
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote:
Hey,
----- Original Message -----
Hi all,
In Fedora 20, Shotwell was the default image viewer and no other image viewer was installed. In F21 Shotwell is still the default, but now Image Viewer (eog) is installed as well. This doesn't make any sense since Image Viewer serves no purpose unless it's the default image handler, whereas Shotwell is more useful for previewing and organizing a collection of photos.
We've also recently noticed that gthumb looks like a nice alternative to Shotwell. I propose we do one of the following:
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, and remove Image Viewer.
- Replace Shotwell with gthumb, but keep Image Viewer as the default
image viewer.
- Remove Shotwell, and keep Image Viewer as the only image viewer.
Opinions welcome.
You might notice that I'm gunning for Shotwell here. It looks a lot older than gthumb, and seems to have mostly the same functionality. (Make sure to check out gthumb in F21, not F20. You wouldn't know they were the same app due to the huge changes.) Image Viewer, in contrast, is a simple app for just previewing images, which is a different purpose, but I think gthumb can also serve this purpose just as well while looking nicer.
There are other options, of course, which I am less fond of:
- Remove Image Viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
- Make Image Viewer the default image viewer. (Shotwell remains.)
Either of these would be more sensible than keeping Image Viewer if it is not the default image viewer.
GNOME Photos is notably not one of the apps we're considering. We've been told it's not ready yet.
A couple of things:
- We used shotwell's viewer, not shotwell by default. It's a different mode of the same binary, but it's not shotwell itself.
- eog was already installed by default when we added Shotwell to F16, and shotwell was made the default for the image types it handled
So my questions would be:
- Is gnome-photos going to have a "display/preview" mode, that doesn't import in the library? Something that's fast enough to launch for multiple images? Can we yield on that?
- Is gnome-documents going to get similar support for opening PDFs/etc. without opening them (but giving the opportunity to add them to the "library")?
Does it support opening multiple documents at once?
- Should we remove evince from the default installation then?
Not unless documents is usable for multi page documents (See https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710043 and https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689041)
But that aside I don't think using a "management app" for simple viewing is a good idea unless it has a preview mode that does not have all the "bloat" (i.e what you wrote above).
On 08/26/2014 10:27 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
A couple of things:
- We used shotwell's viewer, not shotwell by default. It's a different mode of the same binary, but it's not shotwell itself.
[...]
Personally, I'd keep it as-is for now, and remove both Shotwell (and its viewer) and eog from the default installation once gnome-photos can be installed by default.
For whatever it's worth, I'm a very heavy user of this type of functionality, and I always replace Shotwell viewer with eog as one of the first post-install things to do. Shotwell viewer takes too long to load initially and also going from photo to photo in a dir, and it seems to be crash prone (or at least, it's freezing or blocking while it loads.)
The primary use case I have is flipping through directories of sometimes hundreds of images/assets trying to find either a specific targeted one or just to feel through them to see if an appropriate image is in the location (sometimes locally, sometimes on a remote server or mounted NFS share, sometimes on external hw - a friend's SDcard or USB hdd at an event or my phone via USB.) Photo managers don't work for this use case because I'm going thru photos from a shared pool or mounted external devices. Wider context is putting together corporate presentations and trying to find appropriate images / diagrams for particular slides, or putting together brochures / web page designs / blog post reports etc and going thru others' photos of events (say FUDcon or GUADEC or whatever) to find good content to snag.
Whether or not shotwell viewer remains the default, I'm perfectly comfortable switching it on each install; maybe I'm too power user to be helpful here. I just worry that going thru large photosets is more and more common and the initial experience of Shotwell viewer's slowness gives an overall impression of an unresponsive desktop.
~m
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 10:50 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
The primary use case I have is flipping through directories of sometimes hundreds of images/assets trying to find either a specific targeted one or just to feel through them to see if an appropriate image is in the location (sometimes locally, sometimes on a remote server or mounted NFS share, sometimes on external hw - a friend's SDcard or USB hdd at an event or my phone via USB.) Photo managers don't work for this use case because I'm going thru photos from a shared pool or mounted external devices. Wider context is putting together corporate presentations and trying to find appropriate images / diagrams for particular slides, or putting together brochures / web page designs / blog post reports etc and going thru others' photos of events (say FUDcon or GUADEC or whatever) to find good content to snag.
Do you use eog's collection view for this, or do you mean that you use nautilus for the directory view, and just launch eog for individual images ? The latter is what I do, I find the collection view pretty much unusable.
Hi Matthias,
On 08/26/2014 10:56 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Do you use eog's collection view for this, or do you mean that you use nautilus for the directory view, and just launch eog for individual images ? The latter is what I do, I find the collection view pretty much unusable.
The latter for sure. I launch it via nautilus (double-click on first image of interest) for individual images and page through them using the "previous" and "next" buttons in the upper left corner. That lets me "scroll through" the images image-by-image very quickly. I only like having one eog window open to do this. I don't use the collection view at all - I don't know if I've customized it to this or not, but I basically have just the File menu at the top and then the toolbar visible, and I have everything else turned off.
I usually start with the first image in the directory because - again - I'm working with remote or external images and thumbs aren't usually available for these (maybe I'm too impatient to wait for them to "come in" or they are turned off by default for these, I'm not sure.)
Another problem with Shotwell viewer besides the slowness is that the previous/next buttons don't always work to go through a large set and they are greyed out - I don't know why - i think it's dependent on how it's launched (via nautilus vs via firefox downloads pane or file roller bringing me to the dir or something like that.) eog seems to work more reliably across different scenarios on that front.
Just poking between the two right now the controls in Shotwell viewer are also kind of more geared towards editing while eog more geared towards viewing. Shotwell's are on the bottom, a bit jarring when coming from nautilus or firefox where controls are aligned along top. Again, just FWIW.
I just overall have this impression of eog being faster / less freezy and the back and forward buttons not greying out for my use cases. I can try to be more mindful of my 'in situ' interactions with it over the week and takes notes and report back at the end of the week if it'd be helpful.
~m
On 08/26/2014 11:11 AM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi Matthias,
On 08/26/2014 10:56 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Do you use eog's collection view for this, or do you mean that you use nautilus for the directory view, and just launch eog for individual images ? The latter is what I do, I find the collection view pretty much unusable.
Oh, one other note - when I'm doing this and find the image I'm looking for - right-clicking on the image in eog lets you do "open with..." which is very convenient to open up in gimp or inkscape. Shotwell's path here is a bit more roundabout - you have to right-click, do 'show in file manager,' and then dig out the image (it just dumps you to the dir without the target image visible, so you have to go back to shotwell, hunt for the name of the image in the UI, then go back to nautilus again to find it, and the file names are usually very similar and gibberish like if from a digital camera), then right click in nautilus to open with the target app.
~m
----- Original Message -----
On 08/26/2014 11:11 AM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi Matthias,
On 08/26/2014 10:56 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Do you use eog's collection view for this, or do you mean that you use nautilus for the directory view, and just launch eog for individual images ? The latter is what I do, I find the collection view pretty much unusable.
Oh, one other note - when I'm doing this and find the image I'm looking for - right-clicking on the image in eog lets you do "open with..." which is very convenient to open up in gimp or inkscape. Shotwell's path here is a bit more roundabout - you have to right-click, do 'show in file manager,' and then dig out the image (it just dumps you to the dir without the target image visible, so you have to go back to shotwell, hunt for the name of the image in the UI, then go back to nautilus again to find it, and the file names are usually very similar and gibberish like if from a digital camera), then right click in nautilus to open with the target app.
This is clearly something that we need to do better, whether we end up using Sushi or gnome-photos in F22 for the "image preview" use case.
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Máirín Duffy duffy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On 08/26/2014 10:27 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
A couple of things:
- We used shotwell's viewer, not shotwell by default. It's a different
mode of the same binary, but it's not shotwell itself.
[...]
Personally, I'd keep it as-is for now, and remove both Shotwell (and its viewer) and eog from the default installation once gnome-photos can be installed by default.
For whatever it's worth, I'm a very heavy user of this type of functionality, and I always replace Shotwell viewer with eog as one of the first post-install things to do. Shotwell viewer takes too long to load initially and also going from photo to photo in a dir, and it seems to be crash prone (or at least, it's freezing or blocking while it loads.)
The primary use case I have is flipping through directories of sometimes hundreds of images/assets trying to find either a specific targeted one or just to feel through them to see if an appropriate image is in the location (sometimes locally, sometimes on a remote server or mounted NFS share, sometimes on external hw - a friend's SDcard or USB hdd at an event or my phone via USB.) Photo managers don't work for this use case because I'm going thru photos from a shared pool or mounted external devices. Wider context is putting together corporate presentations and trying to find appropriate images / diagrams for particular slides, or putting together brochures / web page designs / blog post reports etc and going thru others' photos of events (say FUDcon or GUADEC or whatever) to find good content to snag.
Whether or not shotwell viewer remains the default, I'm perfectly comfortable switching it on each install; maybe I'm too power user to be helpful here. I just worry that going thru large photosets is more and more common and the initial experience of Shotwell viewer's slowness gives an overall impression of an unresponsive desktop.
I have not seen the hanging part but regarding the "image viewing workflow" .. its exactly the same that I do. Go with nautlius into the folder ... open with eog and navigate with the arrow keys.
On 08/26/2014 11:01 AM, drago01 wrote:
I have not seen the hanging part but regarding the "image viewing workflow" .. its exactly the same that I do. Go with nautlius into the folder ... open with eog and navigate with the arrow keys.
On my 24 GB RAM / multi-core i7 workstation shotwell viewer is really not sweating at all, but on my x220 thinkpad with 4 GB RAM it's very noticeably poky. Sometimes I think the hanging/crashing may be related to gvfs (although eog somehow seems less affected) when working with sdcards / network mounts.
~m
I think we got enough reasons here to have eog as the default viewer. We can still install shotwell (or gthumb or whatever) by default as a "manager" if people want it.
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 18:18 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
I think we got enough reasons here to have eog as the default viewer. We can still install shotwell (or gthumb or whatever) by default as a "manager" if people want it.
Yeah, let's cross out all of the Shotwell options, I think there's sufficient consensus to move past that now.
Remaining options:
* eog as default and only image viewer * gthumb as default and only image viewer * eog as default image viewer, with gthumb installed as shotwell replacement
Nobody besides me is advocating for gthumb here. That either suggests we should not install it, or more likely that nobody else has tried the new gthumb. Or both. :) It has much better integration with GNOME than eog. There are some screenshots at [1] but they are showing off the advanced features rather than the simple image previewer mode that users will see when opening an image (which is the second to last screenshot, but without the big sidebar).
----- Original Message -----
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 18:18 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
I think we got enough reasons here to have eog as the default viewer. We can still install shotwell (or gthumb or whatever) by default as a "manager" if people want it.
Yeah, let's cross out all of the Shotwell options, I think there's sufficient consensus to move past that now.
Remaining options:
- eog as default and only image viewer
- gthumb as default and only image viewer
- eog as default image viewer, with gthumb installed as shotwell
replacement
I vote for option 4: * Do nothing for F21 (and hopefully fix sushi bugs wrt. navigation, switch to gnome-photos)
Nobody besides me is advocating for gthumb here. That either suggests we should not install it, or more likely that nobody else has tried the new gthumb. Or both. :) It has much better integration with GNOME than eog. There are some screenshots at [1] but they are showing off the advanced features rather than the simple image previewer mode that users will see when opening an image (which is the second to last screenshot, but without the big sidebar).
Switching to gthumb now and back in 6 months is probably the worst thing we can do.
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 7:56 PM, Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 18:18 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
I think we got enough reasons here to have eog as the default viewer. We can still install shotwell (or gthumb or whatever) by default as a "manager" if people want it.
Yeah, let's cross out all of the Shotwell options, I think there's sufficient consensus to move past that now.
Remaining options:
- eog as default and only image viewer
- gthumb as default and only image viewer
- eog as default image viewer, with gthumb installed as shotwell
replacement
I vote for option 4:
- Do nothing for F21 (and hopefully fix sushi bugs wrt. navigation, switch to gnome-photos)
Nobody besides me is advocating for gthumb here. That either suggests we should not install it, or more likely that nobody else has tried the new gthumb. Or both. :) It has much better integration with GNOME than eog. There are some screenshots at [1] but they are showing off the advanced features rather than the simple image previewer mode that users will see when opening an image (which is the second to last screenshot, but without the big sidebar).
Switching to gthumb now and back in 6 months is probably the worst thing we can do.
desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
If eog is installed but is not the default handler for photos then it's just sitting there doing nothing... So maybe we should also not install it by default as part of your "do nothing" plan?
I agree that switching the default in 6 months would be bad, but I just tried gthumb and it seems to be really good now - so do we know if Photos will be ready in 6 months? Because if it's not ready for F22, we might as well switch to gthumb by default until then.
On Aug 26, 2014 12:57 PM, "Bastien Nocera" bnocera@redhat.com wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 18:18 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
I think we got enough reasons here to have eog as the default viewer. We can still install shotwell (or gthumb or whatever) by default as a "manager" if people want it.
Yeah, let's cross out all of the Shotwell options, I think there's sufficient consensus to move past that now.
Remaining options:
- eog as default and only image viewer
- gthumb as default and only image viewer
- eog as default image viewer, with gthumb installed as shotwell
replacement
I vote for option 4:
- Do nothing for F21 (and hopefully fix sushi bugs wrt. navigation,
switch to gnome-photos)
Except for gnome-photos (I don't think a Workstation needs a photo app by default, especially considering how easy it is to install at some later point), I agree with you. The use case brought up Mo would seem to be very well served by a sushi that had the fixes you mentioned.
Best/Liam
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 12:56 -0400, Bastien Nocera wrote:
I vote for option 4:
- Do nothing for F21 (and hopefully fix sushi bugs wrt. navigation,
switch to gnome-photos)
I think we have consensus that if we install eog, it needs to be the default image handler, so if we keep both Shotwell and eog we would need to change that.
Hi Michael,
On 08/26/2014 12:45 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
Nobody besides me is advocating for gthumb here. That either suggests we should not install it, or more likely that nobody else has tried the new gthumb. Or both.:) It has much better integration with GNOME than eog.
gthumb was my favorite (I haven't tried the updated version, but the older version has the best printing dialog for dealing with images ever, pretty much across any apps I've tried on any platform) but i stopped using it when it wasn't installed by default anymore. (sheer laziness)
~m
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 18:18 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
I think we got enough reasons here to have eog as the default viewer. We can still install shotwell (or gthumb or whatever) by default as a "manager" if people want it.
Yeah, let's cross out all of the Shotwell options, I think there's sufficient consensus to move past that now.
Remaining options:
- eog as default and only image viewer
- gthumb as default and only image viewer
- eog as default image viewer, with gthumb installed as shotwell
replacement
Nobody besides me is advocating for gthumb here. That either suggests we should not install it, or more likely that nobody else has tried the new gthumb. Or both. :) It has much better integration with GNOME than eog. There are some screenshots at [1] but they are showing off the advanced features rather than the simple image previewer mode that users will see when opening an image (which is the second to last screenshot, but without the big sidebar).
I have just tested it. And you indeed have a point. In contrast to eog it feels like a gnome 3 app and isn't "bloated" manager app. Given that it integrates better into the desktop (consistent look and feel) I'd opt for it.
On 08/26/2014 12:11 PM, drago01 wrote:
I have just tested it. And you indeed have a point. In contrast to eog it feels like a gnome 3 app and isn't "bloated" manager app. Given that it integrates better into the desktop (consistent look and feel) I'd opt for it.
I tried 3.2.8 since I only have my F20 machine handy, but gthumb lacks keyboard (eg. arrow key) navigation that eog provides. Is that something in the 3.3 update? If not an RFE would be warranted.
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Michael Cronenworth mike@cchtml.com wrote:
On 08/26/2014 12:11 PM, drago01 wrote:
I have just tested it. And you indeed have a point. In contrast to eog it feels like a gnome 3 app and isn't "bloated" manager app. Given that it integrates better into the desktop (consistent look and feel) I'd opt for it.
I tried 3.2.8 since I only have my F20 machine handy, but gthumb lacks keyboard (eg. arrow key) navigation that eog provides. Is that something in the 3.3 update? If not an RFE would be warranted.
It doesn't have that. I think this is a showstopper for including gthumb. The default viewer must support arrow key navigation.
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 21:22 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
It doesn't have that. I think this is a showstopper for including gthumb. The default viewer must support arrow key navigation.
The hotkeys for navigating between images are Backspace/PageUp and Space/PageDown. This does seem questionable. I've filed https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735490
----- Original Message -----
On 08/26/2014 10:27 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
A couple of things:
- We used shotwell's viewer, not shotwell by default. It's a different mode
of the same binary, but it's not shotwell itself.
[...]
Personally, I'd keep it as-is for now, and remove both Shotwell (and its viewer) and eog from the default installation once gnome-photos can be installed by default.
For whatever it's worth, I'm a very heavy user of this type of functionality, and I always replace Shotwell viewer with eog as one of the first post-install things to do. Shotwell viewer takes too long to load initially and also going from photo to photo in a dir, and it seems to be crash prone (or at least, it's freezing or blocking while it loads.)
The primary use case I have is flipping through directories of sometimes hundreds of images/assets trying to find either a specific targeted one or just to feel through them to see if an appropriate image is in the location (sometimes locally, sometimes on a remote server or mounted NFS share, sometimes on external hw - a friend's SDcard or USB hdd at an event or my phone via USB.) Photo managers don't work for this use case because I'm going thru photos from a shared pool or mounted external devices. Wider context is putting together corporate presentations and trying to find appropriate images / diagrams for particular slides, or putting together brochures / web page designs / blog post reports etc and going thru others' photos of events (say FUDcon or GUADEC or whatever) to find good content to snag.
Whether or not shotwell viewer remains the default, I'm perfectly comfortable switching it on each install; maybe I'm too power user to be helpful here. I just worry that going thru large photosets is more and more common and the initial experience of Shotwell viewer's slowness gives an overall impression of an unresponsive desktop.
I can understand the use case, and gnome-photos could be the one to allow you doing that, it's just that it doesn't yet. Given the use case, I would think that Sushi could also be doing that job[1].
The important thing here is to avoid changing the defaults to change them again next time around.
This is probably something that needs to be added to the Workstation tasklist, so we make sure to solve that particular problem well for Fedora 22.
Cheers
[1]: the preview in OSX, on which Sushi is based, will keep the keyboard focus on the file manager window, so you'd switch to another thing to preview the same way you'd select the next item if the preview wasn't there.
On 08/26/2014 11:21 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
I can understand the use case, and gnome-photos could be the one to allow you doing that, it's just that it doesn't yet. Given the use case, I would think that Sushi could also be doing that job[1].
[..]
[1]: the preview in OSX, on which Sushi is based, will keep the keyboard focus on the file manager window, so you'd switch to another thing to preview the same way you'd select the next item if the preview wasn't there.
On F20 with GNOME 3.12 for my use case sushi is a no-go:
1) browse to image dir in nautilus 2) hit spacebar on first image 3) image preview comes up 4) keyboard focus is not on nautilus, it's on sushi 5) hit arrow keys; nothing 6) explicitly click on to nautilus window and hit arrow keys; other images are getting highlighted but sushi isn't not responding with updated preview
The other no-go issue here is that the sushi preview by default is small. I see that it's one click to full screen, but there are no controls there, no way to navigate to other photos, and no way to open up photo in another app (gimp, inkscape, etc.)
The only way I can see to potentially get close to my workflow is to hit spacebar to view, spacebar to close, arrow over, space bar to view, spacebar to close - but this is at least twice the number of keypresses and time as my current eog workflow. And it doesn't work when i want to view the images at a higher resolution (right now on my 2560x1440 monitor it looks like it's 1024x768 or smaller) and I hit the fullscreen button to do that, when i hit spacebar to dismiss and open up next image, it doesn't remember that i want full screen and reopens in the smaller (1/9 of screen) view.
So for my workflow, unless I am missing something about using sushi (i searched around a lot and the only instruction i could find reading thru the 5 most useful looking hits were 'hit spacebar') this is a step back from shotwell viewer.
~m
FWIW, I am by no means a professional photographer/graphics person here and I completely concur with _all_ Mairin's points here.
Personally I don't want to get into the discussion of which app is better. But whatever app we choose, we should make sure we reach out to the developers and help them make them as responsive/fast as possible.
On Tue, 2014-08-26 at 10:50 -0400, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On 08/26/2014 10:27 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
A couple of things:
- We used shotwell's viewer, not shotwell by default. It's a different mode of the same binary, but it's not shotwell itself.
[...]
Personally, I'd keep it as-is for now, and remove both Shotwell (and its viewer) and eog from the default installation once gnome-photos can be installed by default.
For whatever it's worth, I'm a very heavy user of this type of functionality, and I always replace Shotwell viewer with eog as one of the first post-install things to do. Shotwell viewer takes too long to load initially and also going from photo to photo in a dir, and it seems to be crash prone (or at least, it's freezing or blocking while it loads.)
The primary use case I have is flipping through directories of sometimes hundreds of images/assets trying to find either a specific targeted one or just to feel through them to see if an appropriate image is in the location (sometimes locally, sometimes on a remote server or mounted NFS share, sometimes on external hw - a friend's SDcard or USB hdd at an event or my phone via USB.) Photo managers don't work for this use case because I'm going thru photos from a shared pool or mounted external devices. Wider context is putting together corporate presentations and trying to find appropriate images / diagrams for particular slides, or putting together brochures / web page designs / blog post reports etc and going thru others' photos of events (say FUDcon or GUADEC or whatever) to find good content to snag.
Whether or not shotwell viewer remains the default, I'm perfectly comfortable switching it on each install; maybe I'm too power user to be helpful here. I just worry that going thru large photosets is more and more common and the initial experience of Shotwell viewer's slowness gives an overall impression of an unresponsive desktop.
~m
Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote: ...
So my questions would be:
- Is gnome-photos going to have a "display/preview" mode, that doesn't import in the library? Something that's fast enough to launch for multiple images? Can we yield on that?
- Is gnome-documents going to get similar support for opening PDFs/etc. without opening them (but giving the opportunity to add them to the "library")?
- Should we remove evince from the default installation then?
The plan, I think, is to extend Nautilus's preview functionality to the point where standalone viewing apps (eog, evince) are no longer required in the default install. However, while there is the possibility of this happening at some point in the future, we don't have a clear time frame for when it might land. It might not happen in time for F22, in other words.
Allan
Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote: ...
- Is gnome-documents going to get similar support for opening PDFs/etc.
The plan, I think, is to extend Nautilus's preview functionality to the point where standalone viewing apps (eog, evince) are no longer required in the default install. However, while there is the possibility of this happening at some point in the future, we don't have a clear time frame for when it might land. It might not happen in time for F22, in other words.
Put aside the distinction in the mind of the "common user" (ie. myself) between a "viewer" that does this but not that, and just something that lets me "open" up the file, let alone the timeline issues, what is the plan for PDF displaying a PDF on my screen?
I've been using evince for a long time, and find it emminently adequate for the job of opening, reading and printing PDFs, which I do quite frequently to the point of daily. The real question here is, "assuming that evince will be dropped from the default install, will there be a PDF 'display' (or whatever you want to call it) program installed by default?"
Please pardon what some will think along the lines of "well duh, he can just used such-and-such package which is already installed by default, or just install evince from the repositories, and anyway there are plenty of other software packages out there which can "display" PDFs -- such as LibreOffice, The Gimp, etc.." Yes, I *do* know how to do "yum install evince".
Donald Buchan malak@pobox.com wrote: ...
The plan, I think, is to extend Nautilus's preview functionality to the point where standalone viewing apps (eog, evince) are no longer required in the default install. However, while there is the possibility of this happening at some point in the future, we don't have a clear time frame for when it might land. It might not happen in time for F22, in other words.
... The real question here is, "assuming that evince will be dropped from the default install, will there be a PDF 'display' (or whatever you want to call it) program installed by default?"
Of course. The idea is that Nautilus would provide this facility as a core part of its functionality, in the same way that browsers typically incorporate a PDF viewer nowadays.
Allan
Sent from mYphone On Aug 27, 2014 9:26 AM, "Allan Day" allanpday@gmail.com wrote:
Bastien Nocera bnocera@redhat.com wrote: ...
So my questions would be:
- Is gnome-photos going to have a "display/preview" mode, that doesn't
import in the
library? Something that's fast enough to launch for multiple images?
Can we yield on
that?
- Is gnome-documents going to get similar support for opening PDFs/etc.
without opening them
(but giving the opportunity to add them to the "library")?
- Should we remove evince from the default installation then?
The plan, I think, is to extend Nautilus's preview functionality to the point where standalone viewing apps (eog, evince) are no longer required in the default install. However, while there is the possibility of this happening at some point in the future, we don't have a clear time frame for when it might land. It might not happen in time for F22, in other words.
That's sounds tremendous, but I'd not heard of this initiative until now. Is this documented somewhere? The File page on the wiki mentions a fast previewer only. Is someone actually doing this work? Is there but in from the Nautilus devs? How is discoverability handled?
On Wed, 2014-08-27 at 20:04 -0400, Liam wrote:
That's sounds tremendous, but I'd not heard of this initiative until now. Is this documented somewhere? The File page on the wiki mentions a fast previewer only.
See here: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/nautilus-next/
Is someone actually doing this work? Is there but in from the Nautilus devs?
Nobody is working on it that I know of. It looks like a big project.
How is discoverability handled?
Instead of pressing a magic space button, you click on the file and it opens up. :)
On Aug 27, 2014 8:16 PM, "Michael Catanzaro" mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Wed, 2014-08-27 at 20:04 -0400, Liam wrote:
That's sounds tremendous, but I'd not heard of this initiative until now. Is this documented somewhere? The File page on the wiki mentions a fast previewer only.
See here: http://afaikblog.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/nautilus-next/
Ah. Much appreciated.
Is someone actually doing this work? Is there but in from the Nautilus devs?
Nobody is working on it that I know of. It looks like a big project.
Damn, that should've read "buy in" but you answered my main question, and explained Allan's timeline.
How is discoverability handled?
Instead of pressing a magic space button, you click on the file and it opens up. :)
Clever;)
Hi,
Since shotwell is still the default photo management application, it's important that it work properly before the F21 release. At the moment, some of us cannot get it to work at all - no import, nothing. I'd filed a bug a month ago but it hasn't seen any activity. I was wondering if someone could please look at it or request the shotwell maintainers to do so?
In the worst case scenario, if it isn't fixed in time, would it be possible to make a last minute switch to another photo management application for the workstation? Shipping a completely broken application would be bad for the first release of the workstation product - both user experience and marketing wise.
(I don't mean to reopen the discussion. I just want the default application set to work reasonably well.)
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734262
On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 12:52 +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hi,
Since shotwell is still the default photo management application, it's important that it work properly before the F21 release. At the moment, some of us cannot get it to work at all - no import, nothing. I'd filed a bug a month ago but it hasn't seen any activity. I was wondering if someone could please look at it or request the shotwell maintainers to do so?
In the worst case scenario, if it isn't fixed in time, would it be possible to make a last minute switch to another photo management application for the workstation? Shipping a completely broken application would be bad for the first release of the workstation product - both user experience and marketing wise.
(I don't mean to reopen the discussion. I just want the default application set to work reasonably well.)
Looks like this is also https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1134128
I've proposed it as a Final blocker.
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Alberto Ruiz -
Allan Day -
Ankur Sinha -
Bastien Nocera -
Diogo Campos -
Donald Buchan -
drago01 -
Elad Alfassa -
Evandro Giovanini -
Liam -
Matthias Clasen -
Michael Catanzaro -
Michael Cronenworth -
Máirín Duffy -
Peter Robinson -
Tadej Janež