Privacy policy, new draft

[Paul W. Frields]

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/PrivacyPolicyRedux

There is still a significant section missing from the draft (on
sharing information) but I hope to have something there by Wednesday.
This hasn't been vetted through any actual attorneys but I wanted the
WG to be aware of it and to see diffs.

-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
    The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

[Matthias Clasen]

On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 15:04 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/PrivacyPolicyRedux
>  
>  There is still a significant section missing from the draft (on 
>  sharing information) but I hope to have something there by 
>  Wednesday. This hasn't been vetted through any actual attorneys but I
>  wanted the WG to be aware of it and to see diffs. 
Thanks, Paul.
A few minor suggestions:

- In the section about 'Cookies and other Browser information', it 
might be useful to mention that the 'User Agent ID' of Browsers that 
are packaged in Fedora is configured to identify the system as running 
Fedora.

- In the 'IP addresses' section, we might want to mention that Fedora 
'pings home' to determine network connectivity.

[Leslie S Satenstein]

Re user agents. My financial institution recognizes Linux as a response. Their comment
"Too many Linux versions to stipulate that we recognize them each."  
Ditto for other systems such as Mac and android. If the browser is not recognized, it is
considered insecure, and the bank's system will not proceed with communication.
 Regards 
 Leslie
 Mr. Leslie Satenstein
Montréal Québec, Canada


 
      From: Matthias Clasen <mclasen(a)redhat.com&gt;
 To: desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org 
 Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 8:22 PM
 Subject: Re: Privacy policy, new draft
   
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 15:04 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/PrivacyPolicyRedux
>  
>  There is still a significant section missing from the draft (on 
>  sharing information) but I hope to have something there by 
>  Wednesday. This hasn't been vetted through any actual attorneys but I
>  wanted the WG to be aware of it and to see diffs. 
Thanks, Paul.
A few minor suggestions:

- In the section about 'Cookies and other Browser information', it 
might be useful to mention that the 'User Agent ID' of Browsers that 
are packaged in Fedora is configured to identify the system as running 
Fedora.

- In the 'IP addresses' section, we might want to mention that Fedora 
'pings home' to determine network connectivity. 



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[Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek]

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 03:04:21PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/PrivacyPolicyRedux
>  
>  There is still a significant section missing from the draft (on
>  sharing information) but I hope to have something there by Wednesday.
>  This hasn't been vetted through any actual attorneys but I wanted the
>  WG to be aware of it and to see diffs. 
IIUC, this is the policy to be linked from PRIVACY_POLICY in os-release.
If not, then my comments are probably mostly irrelevant.

My issue with the text as it is now is that it lists all kinds of things
which *might* be collected. So it protects the project from liability. But
it does not answer the question of a user what information is exposed
in various situations.

The roots of this text in the corporate-designed policy are
still very much visible. For example, it places heavy emphasis on the
data collected at conventions and trade shows. But for a majority of users
of Fedora this isn't interesting — I'd guess that everybody knows that if
they sign up for a contest during a fair, their name is kept somewhere —
but they'd instead like to know what kind of information is exposed
and stored when they install Fedora, install updates, enter bug reports,
use ask.fedora.

To present all this information in a form which is palatable for a normal
user, I think it should be broken into a few broad types of usage:
normal use of Fedora, requesting help through forums, bug tracker, mailing lists,
registration as a project member.

- If you download and/or install Fedora, and/or enable updates, your
  IP and Fedora version will be logged on Fedora servers and will be
  visible to anyone who can watch your traffic. The list of packages
  and their versions too.

- If you create an account in the bugzilla to post bug reports or
  create and account on a Fedora user forum (ask.fp.o), your e-mail
  address and name and IP address will be stored, and ... will be
  publicly visible.

- If you register to become a Fedora contributor, your GPG key, timezone,
  and location if you decide to share it will be publicly visible.

I presume that PRIVACY_POLICY will point to this. I think it should be
mentioned that this is the official policy linked to from GNOME privacy
policy dialog.

Zbyszek

[Bastien Nocera]

----- Original Message -----
>  On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 03:04:21PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Pfrields/PrivacyPolicyRedux
>  > 
>  > There is still a significant section missing from the draft (on
>  > sharing information) but I hope to have something there by Wednesday.
>  > This hasn't been vetted through any actual attorneys but I wanted the
>  > WG to be aware of it and to see diffs.
>  
>  IIUC, this is the policy to be linked from PRIVACY_POLICY in os-release.
>  If not, then my comments are probably mostly irrelevant.
>  
>  My issue with the text as it is now is that it lists all kinds of things
>  which *might* be collected. So it protects the project from liability. But
>  it does not answer the question of a user what information is exposed
>  in various situations.
>  
>  The roots of this text in the corporate-designed policy are
>  still very much visible. For example, it places heavy emphasis on the
>  data collected at conventions and trade shows. But for a majority of users
>  of Fedora this isn't interesting — I'd guess that everybody knows that if
>  they sign up for a contest during a fair, their name is kept somewhere —
>  but they'd instead like to know what kind of information is exposed
>  and stored when they install Fedora, install updates, enter bug reports,
>  use ask.fedora.
>  
>  To present all this information in a form which is palatable for a normal
>  user, I think it should be broken into a few broad types of usage:
>  normal use of Fedora, requesting help through forums, bug tracker, mailing
>  lists,
>  registration as a project member.
>  
>  - If you download and/or install Fedora, and/or enable updates, your
>    IP and Fedora version will be logged on Fedora servers and will be
>    visible to anyone who can watch your traffic. The list of packages
>    and their versions too.
>  
>  - If you create an account in the bugzilla to post bug reports or
>    create and account on a Fedora user forum (ask.fp.o), your e-mail
>    address and name and IP address will be stored, and ... will be
>    publicly visible.
>  
>  - If you register to become a Fedora contributor, your GPG key, timezone,
>    and location if you decide to share it will be publicly visible.
>  
>  I presume that PRIVACY_POLICY will point to this. I think it should be
>  mentioned that this is the official policy linked to from GNOME privacy
>  policy dialog. 
Nothing much to add to this review.

The list of things that "could" be collected shouldn't need to be
exhaustive, instead
we should focus on how data we give "Fedora" is going to be used and shared.

For example, the list in "Publicly Available Personal Information" really
isn't palatable.
A better way of showing this might be to say: "the information you give when creating
your account
will be public by default. You can see what data is publicly visible <here> (link to
the public page
for the user), modify your privacy settings <here>, and request deletion of the
account <here>"

I also don't like the "Personal Information" vs. "Non-Personal
Information". It might be how
a lawyer works, but just because it pertains to a computer and not to a person doesn't
make
it less identifying.

I would focus instead on what is enabled by default, depending on the service. For
example, instead
of burying the installer geolocation usage under "IP addresses":
"
Installer

The installer, by default, will attempt to locate the country you are in to detect the
default timezone and
languages to use using your IP address. The timezone and languages can be changed during
and after
installation. You can also disable this feature through <link: an option to the
installer>.
"

There I know what piece of software does something, why it does it (which is obviously
very important to
justify the collection), and how to disable it.

Cheers

[Elad Alfassa]

Another point that I think is important to mention is that the privacy
policy needs to refer to "user account" in such way that it'll be clear
that it's talking about accounts for contributors (FAS) and not a user
account on your system or an online account you add via GOA, to make it
clear Fedora doesn't scrape your name (or other identifying details) from
Google / Facebook accounts added via GOA, nor the "Full Name" field of user
accounts on your computer.


-- 
-Elad Alfassa.

[Paul W. Frields]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 02:36:31PM +0200, Elad Alfassa wrote:
>  Another point that I think is important to mention is that the
> privacy
>  policy needs to refer to "user account" in such way that it'll be clear
>  that it's talking about accounts for contributors (FAS) and not a user
>  account on your system or an online account you add via GOA, to make it
>  clear Fedora doesn't scrape your name (or other identifying details) from
>  Google / Facebook accounts added via GOA, nor the "Full Name" field of user
>  accounts on your computer. 
Good point, I've added this to our new draft still in progress.

-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
    The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com