gnome-wm and "compiz ... glib gconf" vs "compiz ... ccp"

[Axel Thimm]

Hi,

some of the compiz plugins will not work properly unless compiz is
started with the ccp plugin instead of glib/gconf.

The only clean way to do that is to replace compiz after gnome-wm has
started with the pther parameters, but this delays the login and looks
like it fires up /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc.d/*.desktop twice.

compiz-manager and fusion-icon also start compiz with ccp. Would it
make sense to do so in gnome-wm to start with? I currenlty run a could
of systems patched that way, but the next gnome-session update will
nuke these changes, so I kindly ask to consdier fo upstream :)

Thanks!
-- 
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net

[Matthias Clasen]

On Sun, 2008-10-19 at 22:08 +0300, Axel Thimm wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  some of the compiz plugins will not work properly unless compiz is
>  started with the ccp plugin instead of glib/gconf. 
Sounds like those plugins are broken and need fixing ?

[Axel Thimm]

Hi,

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 05:46:25PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
>  On Sun, 2008-10-19 at 22:08 +0300, Axel Thimm wrote:
>  > some of the compiz plugins will not work properly unless compiz is
>  > started with the ccp plugin instead of glib/gconf.
>  
>  Sounds like those plugins are broken and need fixing ? 
Honestly I have no idea, other than seeing that people on the web as
well as most compiz/fusion tools seem to suggest doing so.

If it's a bug then compiz & compiz-fusion are obviouly aware about it,
since they provide workaround in their tools (and with compiz &
compiz-fusion I mean core devs & community). And if they provide two
workarounds, then either the bug is currently too involved to be fixed
in a timely manner or it is not a bug but intended behaviour.

In either case it would be nice to have Fedora work properly out of
the box. If it's a bug and does get fixed one day we can go back to
glib/gconf instead of ccp. Is there any reason otherwise not to just
patch gnome-wm to use ccp now?
-- 
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net

[Toshio Kuratomi]

Axel Thimm wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 05:46:25PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > On Sun, 2008-10-19 at 22:08 +0300, Axel Thimm wrote:
> >> some of the compiz plugins will not work properly unless compiz is
> >> started with the ccp plugin instead of glib/gconf.
> > Sounds like those plugins are broken and need fixing ?
>  
>  Honestly I have no idea, other than seeing that people on the web as
>  well as most compiz/fusion tools seem to suggest doing so.
>  
>  If it's a bug then compiz & compiz-fusion are obviouly aware about it,
>  since they provide workaround in their tools (and with compiz &
>  compiz-fusion I mean core devs & community). And if they provide two
>  workarounds, then either the bug is currently too involved to be fixed
>  in a timely manner or it is not a bug but intended behaviour.
>  
>  In either case it would be nice to have Fedora work properly out of
>  the box. If it's a bug and does get fixed one day we can go back to
>  glib/gconf instead of ccp. Is there any reason otherwise not to just
>  patch gnome-wm to use ccp now?
>   
I think that user settings will get left behind each time you switch
between configuration backends.  That's a big negative.

A bugzilla report against the affected plugins will get some people
looking at whether it's a bug in the plugin or not.

-Toshio

[Axel Thimm]

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>  Axel Thimm wrote:
>  > On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 05:46:25PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
>  >> On Sun, 2008-10-19 at 22:08 +0300, Axel Thimm wrote:
>  >>> some of the compiz plugins will not work properly unless compiz is
>  >>> started with the ccp plugin instead of glib/gconf.
>  >> Sounds like those plugins are broken and need fixing ?
>  > 
>  > Honestly I have no idea, other than seeing that people on the web as
>  > well as most compiz/fusion tools seem to suggest doing so.
>  > 
>  > If it's a bug then compiz & compiz-fusion are obviouly aware about it,
>  > since they provide workaround in their tools (and with compiz &
>  > compiz-fusion I mean core devs & community). And if they provide two
>  > workarounds, then either the bug is currently too involved to be fixed
>  > in a timely manner or it is not a bug but intended behaviour.
>  > 
>  > In either case it would be nice to have Fedora work properly out of
>  > the box. If it's a bug and does get fixed one day we can go back to
>  > glib/gconf instead of ccp. Is there any reason otherwise not to just
>  > patch gnome-wm to use ccp now?
>  > 
>  I think that user settings will get left behind each time you switch
>  between configuration backends.  That's a big negative. 
Are you sure? ccp does default to store stuff under gconf and the
settings look OK. It looks like this is intended to be shortcircuited
one day, but not yet now, as many plugins work properly through ccp
and not glib/gconf.

>  A bugzilla report against the affected plugins will get some people
>  looking at whether it's a bug in the plugin or not. 
People seem to be aware, there are official workarounds and ccp seems
to have a migration policy in place. But until all plugins properly
work directly with gconf we should not break it and use the ccp
plugin.

Anyway, it's just an observation about the user experience and how to
improve it with a little quirk. Just give a couple plugins a try and
see how they misbehave if you don't use ccp.
-- 
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net

[drago01]

2008/10/20 Axel Thimm <Axel.Thimm(a)atrpms.net&gt;:
>  On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 08:14:15AM -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> > Axel Thimm wrote:
> > > On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 05:46:25PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 2008-10-19 at 22:08 +0300, Axel Thimm wrote:
> > >>> some of the compiz plugins will not work properly unless compiz is
> > >>> started with the ccp plugin instead of glib/gconf.
> > >> Sounds like those plugins are broken and need fixing ?
> > >
> > > Honestly I have no idea, other than seeing that people on the web as
> > > well as most compiz/fusion tools seem to suggest doing so.
> > >
> > > If it's a bug then compiz & compiz-fusion are obviouly aware about it,
> > > since they provide workaround in their tools (and with compiz &
> > > compiz-fusion I mean core devs & community). And if they provide two
> > > workarounds, then either the bug is currently too involved to be fixed
> > > in a timely manner or it is not a bug but intended behaviour.
> > >
> > > In either case it would be nice to have Fedora work properly out of
> > > the box. If it's a bug and does get fixed one day we can go back to
> > > glib/gconf instead of ccp. Is there any reason otherwise not to just
> > > patch gnome-wm to use ccp now?
> > >
> > I think that user settings will get left behind each time you switch
> > between configuration backends.  That's a big negative.
>
>  Are you sure? ccp does default to store stuff under gconf and the
>  settings look OK. It looks like this is intended to be shortcircuited
>  one day, but not yet now, as many plugins work properly through ccp
>  and not glib/gconf.
>
> > A bugzilla report against the affected plugins will get some people
> > looking at whether it's a bug in the plugin or not.
>
>  People seem to be aware, there are official workarounds and ccp seems
>  to have a migration policy in place. But until all plugins properly
>  work directly with gconf we should not break it and use the ccp
>  plugin.
>
>  Anyway, it's just an observation about the user experience and how to
>  improve it with a little quirk. Just give a couple plugins a try and
>  see how they misbehave if you don't use ccp. 
err... what?
the plugins do not care about the used configuration plugin at all ...
if they do its a bug that should be fixed.
which plugins are you talking about?

[Axel Thimm]

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:30:13PM +0200, drago01 wrote:
>  err... what?
>  the plugins do not care about the used configuration plugin at all ...
>  if they do its a bug that should be fixed.
>  which plugins are you talking about? 
It's quite a few, but for example the animations won't go random even
though the setting is there or the cube deformation will be always
cylindrical even if it should be none/spherical.

Restaring compiz with the ccp plugin fixes all that and more.
-- 
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net