hi all This may have been covered here before, and if so I apologize for the mess. I've been getting a couple of blind users who switch over from windows to fedora, or at least, they say they will. But they speak multiple languages, and usually want to have gnome shell and apps displayed in their native language. So I went and attempted to find out how this is done. Here is what I've found, and it's puzzling. According to gnome's docs, you simply go into the region and language control center applet, highlight the language you want to use, and press enter. If the language isn't in the list you're supposed to find a "..." button to open a list of languages to pick from. On my fedora install, there are only two items in the list. English US, and an item that's silent. Orca says nothing but I think it's that "..." button the docs were talking about. Instead of taking me to a list, it closes the language dialog with no effect. I know how locales on the command line are supposed to work, you've got two files in /etc that control this. Locale.gen, which controls what languages are available to the system. I chose german and french, utf8, just to experiment with. Then there's locale.conf which controls the currently active language. You simply export a new language into this file and the language is supposed to change. Example, export lang=en_UK.utf-8 > /etc/locale.conf." Is this what gnome's language control center item does? I'm hearing a lot about these "language packs" in gnome's documentation, but no matter how I search, dnf, software, I can't find one. Anyone got any ideas? After I added french and german in locale.gen, or rather, uncommented them and ran locale-gen, the languages immediately showed up in the language list, but pressing enter on them didn't change the language. I'm hoping it's something obvious, such as you needing to log out and back in for the new language to take effect. If not, this is probably a bug in gnome and I need to report it. Thanks for reading Kendell clark
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 01:27 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi all This may have been covered here before, and if so I apologize for the
mess. I've been getting a couple of blind users who switch over from windows to fedora, or at least, they say they will. But they speak multiple languages, and usually want to have gnome shell and apps displayed in their native language. So I went and attempted to find out how this is done. Here is what I've found, and it's puzzling. According to gnome's docs, you simply go into the region and language control center applet, highlight the language you want to use, and press enter. If the language isn't in the list you're supposed to find a "..." button to open a list of languages to pick from. On my fedora install, there are only two items in the list.
That's strange; there are nine languages in my list.
English US, and an item that's silent. Orca says nothing but I think it's that "..." button the docs
were talking about. Instead of taking me to a list, it closes the language dialog with no effect.
OK, this is a bug. That button only works when you click it with a mouse, but when you select it with the keyboard and then hit Enter, it closes the dialog.
We also need an accessible label for the ... button.
I know how locales on the command line are supposed to work, you've got two files in /etc that control this.
Locale.gen, which controls what languages are available to the system. I chose german and french, utf8, just to experiment with. Then there's locale.conf which controls the currently active language. You simply
export a new language into this file and the language is supposed to change. Example, export lang=en_UK.utf-8 > /etc/locale.conf." Is this
what gnome's language control center item does?
If you're an administrator, or if you're not an administrator and you click the Login Screen button, then it will use localed to set the system language. It's the equivalent of the command 'localectl set -locale', which will modify /etc/locale.conf for you.
If you're not an administrator and don't click the Login Screen button, then it changes your user account's language settings with accountsservice, which are used to set $LANG when logging in to GNOME Shell.
Keep in mind that in order for the change to system language to take effect on the login screen, you'd have to restart your computer, and for the change to take effect in GNOME Shell, you'd have to log out and log in again.
I'm hearing a lot about these "language packs" in gnome's documentation, but no matter how I search, dnf, software, I can't find one. Anyone got any ideas? After I added french and german in locale.gen, or rather, uncommented them and ran locale-gen, the languages immediately showed up in the language list, but pressing enter on them didn't change the language. I'm hoping it's something obvious, such as you needing to log out and back in for the new language to take effect. If not, this is probably a bug in gnome and I need to report it. Thanks for reading Kendell clark
It's the same problem that affects the ... button: pressing enter does not select the new language as you would expect; instead it closes the dialog without changing your language. So it's a bug. Please CC me when you report it, thanks.
Michael
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hi Yup, that solved it. That was very helpful. I'll file a bug against gnome shell for the language list, if there isn't one already. For some reason I seem to remember filing a bug already, but I'll look. Thanks Kendell clark
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 01:27 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi all This may have been covered here before, and if so I apologize for the
mess. I've been getting a couple of blind users who switch over from windows to fedora, or at least, they say they will. But they speak multiple languages, and usually want to have gnome shell and apps displayed in their native language. So I went and attempted to find out how this is done. Here is what I've found, and it's puzzling. According to gnome's docs, you simply go into the region and language control center applet, highlight the language you want to use, and press enter. If the language isn't in the list you're supposed to find a "..." button to open a list of languages to pick from. On my fedora install, there are only two items in the list.
That's strange; there are nine languages in my list.
English US, and an item that's silent. Orca says nothing but I think it's that "..." button the docs
were talking about. Instead of taking me to a list, it closes the language dialog with no effect.
OK, this is a bug. That button only works when you click it with a mouse, but when you select it with the keyboard and then hit Enter, it closes the dialog.
We also need an accessible label for the ... button.
I know how locales on the command line are supposed to work, you've got two files in /etc that control this.
Locale.gen, which controls what languages are available to the system. I chose german and french, utf8, just to experiment with. Then there's locale.conf which controls the currently active language. You simply
export a new language into this file and the language is supposed to change. Example, export lang=en_UK.utf-8 > /etc/locale.conf." Is this
what gnome's language control center item does?
If you're an administrator, or if you're not an administrator and you click the Login Screen button, then it will use localed to set the system language. It's the equivalent of the command 'localectl set -locale', which will modify /etc/locale.conf for you.
If you're not an administrator and don't click the Login Screen button, then it changes your user account's language settings with accountsservice, which are used to set $LANG when logging in to GNOME Shell.
Keep in mind that in order for the change to system language to take effect on the login screen, you'd have to restart your computer, and for the change to take effect in GNOME Shell, you'd have to log out and log in again.
I'm hearing a lot about these "language packs" in gnome's documentation, but no matter how I search, dnf, software, I can't find one. Anyone got any ideas? After I added french and german in locale.gen, or rather, uncommented them and ran locale-gen, the languages immediately showed up in the language list, but pressing enter on them didn't change the language. I'm hoping it's something obvious, such as you needing to log out and back in for the new language to take effect. If not, this is probably a bug in gnome and I need to report it. Thanks for reading Kendell clark
It's the same problem that affects the ... button: pressing enter does not select the new language as you would expect; instead it closes the dialog without changing your language. So it's a bug. Please CC me when you report it, thanks.
Michael
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 14:25 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Yup, that solved it. That was very helpful. I'll file a bug against gnome shell for the language list, if there isn't one already. For some reason I seem to remember filing a bug already, but I'll look. Thanks Kendell clark
If you haven't already filed it, it's a gnome-control-center bug.
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hi Nope, hadn't filed yet, but was just about to. I'm not sure how to write good summaries, the last couple of a11y bugs I've filed against gnome components have gone unresponded to. Maybe something like "Region and language settings: the "..." button only reacts to mouse clicks, not keyboard events?" Thanks Kendell clark
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 14:25 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Yup, that solved it. That was very helpful. I'll file a bug against gnome shell for the language list, if there isn't one already. For some reason I seem to remember filing a bug already, but I'll look. Thanks Kendell clark
If you haven't already filed it, it's a gnome-control-center bug.
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 16:32 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Nope, hadn't filed yet, but was just about to. I'm not sure how to write good summaries, the last couple of a11y bugs I've filed against gnome components have gone unresponded to. Maybe something like "Region and language settings: the "..." button only reacts to mouse clicks, not keyboard events?" Thanks Kendell clark
*All* of the buttons only react to mouse clicks. I think there's just no way to use the dialog with a keyboard.
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hi I don't see why not, after all I can tab to the buttons, and navigate the list. What difference does it make whether you activate a button by clicking on it or whether you press enter on it? Or am I missing something obvious? I'm still relatively new at bug filing. Thanks Kendell clark
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 16:32 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Nope, hadn't filed yet, but was just about to. I'm not sure how to write good summaries, the last couple of a11y bugs I've filed against gnome components have gone unresponded to. Maybe something like "Region and language settings: the "..." button only reacts to mouse clicks, not keyboard events?" Thanks Kendell clark
*All* of the buttons only react to mouse clicks. I think there's just no way to use the dialog with a keyboard.
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 18:51 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi I don't see why not, after all I can tab to the buttons, and navigate the list. What difference does it make whether you activate a button by clicking on it or whether you press enter on it? Or am I missing something obvious? I'm still relatively new at bug filing. Thanks Kendell clark
The problem in this case is that pressing enter does *not* activate the button (actually a GtkListBox entry) that you have selected; instead, it activates the Done button on the dialog, discarding your changes.
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hi Now that makes sense. Could a change be implemented where you select the item by pressing space, thereby highlighting and marking it as active, then press enter to activate the done button? That should solve the problem neatly. I believe this is what clicking on the language with the mouse and then the done button does? Thanks Kendell clark
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 18:51 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi I don't see why not, after all I can tab to the buttons, and navigate the list. What difference does it make whether you activate a button by clicking on it or whether you press enter on it? Or am I missing something obvious? I'm still relatively new at bug filing. Thanks Kendell clark
The problem in this case is that pressing enter does *not* activate the button (actually a GtkListBox entry) that you have selected; instead, it activates the Done button on the dialog, discarding your changes.
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 16:49 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Now that makes sense. Could a change be implemented where you select the item by pressing space, thereby highlighting and marking it as active, then press enter to activate the done button? That should solve the problem neatly. I believe this is what clicking on the language with the mouse and then the done button does? Thanks Kendell clark
Wouldn't you expect pressing Enter to select the button?
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hi Well yes, this is true. But You just said that wasn't possible, so I'm trying to compromise. Thanks Kendell clark
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 16:49 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Now that makes sense. Could a change be implemented where you select the item by pressing space, thereby highlighting and marking it as active, then press enter to activate the done button? That should solve the problem neatly. I believe this is what clicking on the language with the mouse and then the done button does? Thanks Kendell clark
Wouldn't you expect pressing Enter to select the button?
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hi Definitely possible, I'm still new at this. I tend to interpret what people say a few sentences ahead sometimes, so if it sounds like you're saying it's impossible, I'm likely to think I heard that. Gets me into a lot of trouble sometimes.I'd settle for an accessible label for the "..." button, or list item. In fact, what might be better is if the "..." button were moved to the right of the done button that way it's not in the list, but I'm no gui designer, it was probably put there for a reason. As long as I can navigate the dialog using the keyboard I'm happy. Should I file a bug against gnome control center? Do you know what's up with these "language packas" I keep running to in documentation? I remember language packs in the old gnome 2 days, but are they still relevant now? I only ask because I can't find any no matter how I search, so I'm wondering if it's maybe a left over bit of documentation or if it means something else? Thanks Kendell clark
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Sat, 2015-07-04 at 18:05 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Well yes, this is true. But You just said that wasn't possible, so I'm trying to compromise. Thanks Kendell clark
Maybe a misunderstanding; it should definitely be possible.
On Sun, 2015-07-05 at 16:09 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Definitely possible, I'm still new at this. I tend to interpret what people say a few sentences ahead sometimes, so if it sounds like you're saying it's impossible, I'm likely to think I heard that. Gets me into a lot of trouble sometimes.I'd settle for an accessible label for the "..." button, or list item. In fact, what might be better is if the "..." button were moved to the right of the done button that way it's not in the list, but I'm no gui designer, it was probably put there for a reason.
Moving it wouldn't work; the ... button is actually a list entry at the bottom of the list of languages. The Done button is in the header bar in the upper-right; only one button fits there.
As long as I can navigate the dialog using the keyboard I'm happy. Should I file a bug against gnome control center?
Please do!
Do you know what's up with these "language packas" I keep running to in documentation? I remember language packs in the old gnome 2 days, but are they still relevant now? I only ask because I can't find any no matter how I search, so I'm wondering if it's maybe a left over bit of documentation or if it means something else?
Some distros split language support into subpackages. I'm not familiar with how this works in Fedora.
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hi Ok, bug filed. The link is, https://bugzilla.gnome.orgM/show_bug.cgi?id=752001. Thanks Kendell clark
kendell clark wrote:
hi Definitely possible, I'm still new at this. I tend to interpret what people say a few sentences ahead sometimes, so if it sounds like you're saying it's impossible, I'm likely to think I heard that. Gets me into a lot of trouble sometimes.I'd settle for an accessible label for the "..." button, or list item. In fact, what might be better is if the "..." button were moved to the right of the done button that way it's not in the list, but I'm no gui designer, it was probably put there for a reason. As long as I can navigate the dialog using the keyboard I'm happy. Should I file a bug against gnome control center? Do you know what's up with these "language packas" I keep running to in documentation? I remember language packs in the old gnome 2 days, but are they still relevant now? I only ask because I can't find any no matter how I search, so I'm wondering if it's maybe a left over bit of documentation or if it means something else? Thanks Kendell clark
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Sat, 2015-07-04 at 18:05 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi Well yes, this is true. But You just said that wasn't possible, so I'm trying to compromise. Thanks Kendell clark
Maybe a misunderstanding; it should definitely be possible.
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 21:29 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Fri, 2015-07-03 at 18:51 -0500, kendell clark wrote:
hi I don't see why not, after all I can tab to the buttons, and navigate the list. What difference does it make whether you activate a button by clicking on it or whether you press enter on it? Or am I missing something obvious? I'm still relatively new at bug filing. Thanks Kendell clark
The problem in this case is that pressing enter does *not* activate the button (actually a GtkListBox entry) that you have selected; instead, it activates the Done button on the dialog, discarding your changes.
Could you describe the problem you are seeing in more detail ? I don't have any problem to move the focus to the ... button, and activating it with enter works just fine. Where is the focus when you hit enter ?
On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 07:21 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Could you describe the problem you are seeing in more detail ? I don't have any problem to move the focus to the ... button, and activating it with enter works just fine. Where is the focus when you hit enter ?
Ah, there was more to it...I've commented on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752001
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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kendell clark -
Matthias Clasen -
Michael Catanzaro