Firefox integration in Workstation

[Ryan Lerch]

I know this has been covered in threads in the past, but just wondering 
if i could bring up the idea again of shipping the firefox-gnome 
theme[1] as the default firefox theme in Fedora.

Firefox is the default browser in Workstation, and it would be awesome 
if it looked closer to all the other default applications we ship

cheers,
ryanlerch

[1] - https://github.com/gnome-integration-team/firefox-gnome

[Michael Cronenworth]

On 11/11/2015 07:02 PM, Ryan Lerch wrote:
>  I know this has been covered in threads in the past, but just
> wondering if i could 
>  bring up the idea again of shipping the firefox-gnome theme[1] as the default 
>  firefox theme in Fedora.
>
>  Firefox is the default browser in Workstation, and it would be awesome if it 
>  looked closer to all the other default applications we ship  
I have been running Firefox this way for a good amount of time. It works well and 
looks well.

Is it against the Red Hat / Mozilla trademark agreement to change the default theme?

[Martin Stransky]

On 11/12/2015 02:58 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>  On 11/11/2015 07:02 PM, Ryan Lerch wrote:
> > I know this has been covered in threads in the past, but just
> > wondering if i could bring up the idea again of shipping the
> > firefox-gnome theme[1] as the default firefox theme in Fedora.
> >
> > Firefox is the default browser in Workstation, and it would be awesome
> > if it looked closer to all the other default applications we ship
>
>  I have been running Firefox this way for a good amount of time. It works
>  well and looks well. 
According to the screens it breaks the intended feature that URL/Search 
bar is inside Tabs (which was made by Firefox project Australis). It 
reverts this feature back and Firefox looks more like gedit which is 
IMHO confusing. Also breaks FF light themes (Persona formerly).

>  Is it against the Red Hat / Mozilla trademark agreement to change
> the
>  default theme? 
No, it is not. But it would provide extra maintenance cost when the 
theme needs to be updated/checked/tested with every new FF release when 
it's default.

ma.

[Stephen Gallagher]

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On 11/12/2015 03:28 AM, Martin Stransky wrote:
>  On 11/12/2015 02:58 AM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> > On 11/11/2015 07:02 PM, Ryan Lerch wrote:
> >> I know this has been covered in threads in the past, but just 
> >> wondering if i could bring up the idea again of shipping the 
> >> firefox-gnome theme[1] as the default firefox theme in Fedora.
> >> 
> >> Firefox is the default browser in Workstation, and it would be 
> >> awesome if it looked closer to all the other default 
> >> applications we ship
> > 
> > I have been running Firefox this way for a good amount of time. 
> > It works well and looks well.
>  
>  According to the screens it breaks the intended feature that 
>  URL/Search bar is inside Tabs (which was made by Firefox project 
>  Australis). It reverts this feature back and Firefox looks more 
>  like gedit which is IMHO confusing. Also breaks FF light themes 
>  (Persona formerly).
>  
> > Is it against the Red Hat / Mozilla trademark agreement to
> > change the default theme?
>  
>  No, it is not. But it would provide extra maintenance cost when the
>  theme needs to be updated/checked/tested with every new FF release
>  when it's default.
>   
Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme limited only
to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we could probably work some magic
with systemd units to enable or disable the theme when we are in a
GNOME session, but it would be... tricky.)

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[Kalev Lember]

On 11/12/2015 02:30 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme limited only
>  to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we could probably work some magic
>  with systemd units to enable or disable the theme when we are in a
>  GNOME session, but it would be... tricky.) 
This is probably the easiest part here: we would just add the extra
firefox theme package to the set of default installed Workstation
packages and leave it out in KDE and other spins.

Making firefox hard depend on the extra GNOME themes would not be a
great plan, I think :)

-- 
Kalev

[Stephen Gallagher]

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On 11/12/2015 08:44 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
>  On 11/12/2015 02:30 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme limited
> > only to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we could probably work
> > some magic with systemd units to enable or disable the theme when
> > we are in a GNOME session, but it would be... tricky.)
>  
>  This is probably the easiest part here: we would just add the
>  extra firefox theme package to the set of default installed
>  Workstation packages and leave it out in KDE and other spins.
>  
>  Making firefox hard depend on the extra GNOME themes would not be
>  a great plan, I think :)
>   
This would still be a problem for anyone who installs both Workstation
and an alternative desktop. That's why I suggested the unit file hack
rather than just a packaging solution.
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[Martin Stransky]

On 11/12/2015 09:28 AM, Martin Stransky wrote:
>  Also breaks FF light themes (Persona formerly). 
Actually I'm wrong here, the light themes may just replace the Gnome
theme. But we'd need to make sure the Gnome theme does not replace
already installed custom themes.

ma.

[Christian Schaller]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Stephen Gallagher" <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  To: desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 8:50:45 AM
>  Subject: Re: Firefox integration in Workstation
>  
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>  
>  On 11/12/2015 08:44 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
>  > On 11/12/2015 02:30 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  >> Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme limited
>  >> only to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we could probably work
>  >> some magic with systemd units to enable or disable the theme when
>  >> we are in a GNOME session, but it would be... tricky.)
>  > 
>  > This is probably the easiest part here: we would just add the
>  > extra firefox theme package to the set of default installed
>  > Workstation packages and leave it out in KDE and other spins.
>  > 
>  > Making firefox hard depend on the extra GNOME themes would not be
>  > a great plan, I think :)
>  > 
>  This would still be a problem for anyone who installs both Workstation
>  and an alternative desktop. That's why I suggested the unit file hack
>  rather than just a packaging solution. 
Well I am not sure I am in favour of using that theme, but I think that
we need to make such decisions based on whats best for the workstation,
not something super niche like people 'hacking' their system to use a non-standard
setup. Once a user decides to do their own thing they are on their
own for both the good and the bad. 

Christian

[Matthias Clasen]

On Thu, 2015-11-12 at 08:50 -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  On 11/12/2015 08:44 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
>  > On 11/12/2015 02:30 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  > > Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme limited
>  > > only to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we could probably work
>  > > some magic with systemd units to enable or disable the theme when
>  > > we are in a GNOME session, but it would be... tricky.)
>  > 
>  > This is probably the easiest part here: we would just add the
>  > extra firefox theme package to the set of default installed
>  > Workstation packages and leave it out in KDE and other spins.
>  > 
>  > Making firefox hard depend on the extra GNOME themes would not be
>  > a great plan, I think :)
>  > 
>  This would still be a problem for anyone who installs both
>  Workstation
>  and an alternative desktop. That's why I suggested the unit file hack
>  rather than just a packaging solution. 
I'll bite. Why is it a problem ?

[Stephen Gallagher]

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On 11/12/2015 10:30 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
>  On Thu, 2015-11-12 at 08:50 -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > On 11/12/2015 08:44 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
> >> On 11/12/2015 02:30 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> >>> Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme
> >>> limited only to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we could
> >>> probably work some magic with systemd units to enable or
> >>> disable the theme when we are in a GNOME session, but it
> >>> would be... tricky.)
> >> 
> >> This is probably the easiest part here: we would just add the 
> >> extra firefox theme package to the set of default installed 
> >> Workstation packages and leave it out in KDE and other spins.
> >> 
> >> Making firefox hard depend on the extra GNOME themes would not
> >> be a great plan, I think :)
> >> 
> > This would still be a problem for anyone who installs both 
> > Workstation and an alternative desktop. That's why I suggested
> > the unit file hack rather than just a packaging solution.
>  
>  I'll bite. Why is it a problem ?
>   
Well, applying a theme specifically to integrate with the GNOME
environment would (pretty much by definition) mean that it would not
cleanly fit into a KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc. environment if they were
launched from GDM. I know from history that these groups tend to get
upset when we make changes that negatively impacts them without
considering their needs as well.
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[Christian Schaller]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Stephen Gallagher" <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  To: desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 10:52:55 AM
>  Subject: Re: Firefox integration in Workstation
>  
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>  
>  On 11/12/2015 10:30 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
>  > On Thu, 2015-11-12 at 08:50 -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  >> On 11/12/2015 08:44 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
>  >>> On 11/12/2015 02:30 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  >>>> Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme
>  >>>> limited only to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we could
>  >>>> probably work some magic with systemd units to enable or
>  >>>> disable the theme when we are in a GNOME session, but it
>  >>>> would be... tricky.)
>  >>> 
>  >>> This is probably the easiest part here: we would just add the
>  >>> extra firefox theme package to the set of default installed
>  >>> Workstation packages and leave it out in KDE and other spins.
>  >>> 
>  >>> Making firefox hard depend on the extra GNOME themes would not
>  >>> be a great plan, I think :)
>  >>> 
>  >> This would still be a problem for anyone who installs both
>  >> Workstation and an alternative desktop. That's why I suggested
>  >> the unit file hack rather than just a packaging solution.
>  > 
>  > I'll bite. Why is it a problem ?
>  > 
>  
>  Well, applying a theme specifically to integrate with the GNOME
>  environment would (pretty much by definition) mean that it would not
>  cleanly fit into a KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc. environment if they were
>  launched from GDM. I know from history that these groups tend to get
>  upset when we make changes that negatively impacts them without
>  considering their needs as well. 
Well but in this case it was specifically a solution that would not
affect spin-users, only people who install the standard workstation
and then starts swapping out core parts. Which they are free to do of
course, but if they have the skills and interest to self support and
 do that then for sure they can also reconfigure the browser theme.

Christian

[Stephen Gallagher]

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On 11/12/2015 10:59 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen Gallagher" <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt; To:
> > desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015
> > 10:52:55 AM Subject: Re: Firefox integration in Workstation
> > 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > On 11/12/2015 10:30 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2015-11-12 at 08:50 -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> >>> On 11/12/2015 08:44 AM, Kalev Lember wrote:
> >>>> On 11/12/2015 02:30 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> >>>>> Also, we would need to figure out how to make the theme 
> >>>>> limited only to the GNOME environment. (I suspect we
> >>>>> could probably work some magic with systemd units to
> >>>>> enable or disable the theme when we are in a GNOME
> >>>>> session, but it would be... tricky.)
> >>>> 
> >>>> This is probably the easiest part here: we would just add
> >>>> the extra firefox theme package to the set of default
> >>>> installed Workstation packages and leave it out in KDE and
> >>>> other spins.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Making firefox hard depend on the extra GNOME themes would
> >>>> not be a great plan, I think :)
> >>>> 
> >>> This would still be a problem for anyone who installs both 
> >>> Workstation and an alternative desktop. That's why I
> >>> suggested the unit file hack rather than just a packaging
> >>> solution.
> >> 
> >> I'll bite. Why is it a problem ?
> >> 
> > 
> > Well, applying a theme specifically to integrate with the GNOME 
> > environment would (pretty much by definition) mean that it would
> > not cleanly fit into a KDE, XFCE, LXDE, etc. environment if they
> > were launched from GDM. I know from history that these groups
> > tend to get upset when we make changes that negatively impacts
> > them without considering their needs as well.
>  
>  Well but in this case it was specifically a solution that would
>  not affect spin-users, only people who install the standard
>  workstation and then starts swapping out core parts. Which they are
>  free to do of course, but if they have the skills and interest to
>  self support and do that then for sure they can also reconfigure
>  the browser theme. 
I think you're making assumptions about single-user systems. In the
case of a "lab computer", for example, it may be sensible to have
multiple environments available. Anyway, this is the last comment I'm
going to make on the topic.

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[Jiri Eischmann]

Ryan Lerch píše v Čt 12. 11. 2015 v 11:02 +1000:
>  I know this has been covered in threads in the past, but just
>  wondering 
>  if i could bring up the idea again of shipping the firefox-gnome 
>  theme[1] as the default firefox theme in Fedora.
>  
>  Firefox is the default browser in Workstation, and it would be
>  awesome 
>  if it looked closer to all the other default applications we ship
>  
>  cheers,
>  ryanlerch
>  
>  [1] - https://github.com/gnome-integration-team/firefox-gnome 
There is a proposal to remove heavyweight themes from Firefox [1]. We
should wait for outcome of the discussion because it'd be very
unfortunate to introduce a new default theme which we would have to
discontinue shortly after that.

Jiri

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1222546