[Base] Base Design WG agenda meeting 13. Dec 2013 15:00 UTC on #fedora-meeting

[Phil Knirsch]

Agenda:
  - Buildreq cleanup initiative
  - Review latest WGs planing and PRD state and impacts on Base
  - Open Floor

Please send any other topics as usual to the list and/or bring them up 
at the start of the meeting.

See you all tomorrow!

Thanks & regards, Phil

-- 
Philipp Knirsch              | Tel.:  [phone]
Manager Core Services        | Fax.:  [phone]
Red Hat GmbH                 | Email: Phil Knirsch <pknirsch(a)redhat.com&gt;
Wankelstrasse 5              | Web:   http://www.redhat.com/
D-70563 Stuttgart, Germany

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 12/12/2013 06:02 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote:
>   - Review latest WGs planing and PRD state and impacts on Base 
?

It's the other way around as in the WG's have to be in alignment how the 
impact of Base affects them.

JBG

[Matthew Miller]

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 06:44:09PM +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
>  On 12/12/2013 06:02 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote:
>  > - Review latest WGs planing and PRD state and impacts on Base
>  It's the other way around as in the WG's have to be in alignment how
>  the impact of Base affects them. 
I hope we're kind of all working together on this in both directions....

-- 
Matthew Miller  --  Fedora Project Architect --  <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On fim 12.des 2013 20:00, Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 06:44:09PM +0000, "Jóhann B.
> Guðmundsson" wrote:
> > >On 12/12/2013 06:02 PM, Phil Knirsch wrote:
> >> > >- Review latest WGs planing and PRD state and impacts on Base
> > >It's the other way around as in the WG's have to be in alignment how
> > >the impact of Base affects them.
>  I hope we're kind of all working together on this in both directions.... 
Not really because since it's quite obvious that embedded has different 
needs in their base layer then cloud/server/desktop does, cloud has 
different needs in their base layer then embedded/server/desktop does, 
server has different needs in their base layer then 
embedded/cloud/desktop does and desktop has different needs in their 
base layer then embedded/cloud/server does ( see where I'm going with 
this ).

The base end's up being broken compromises between the working groups ( 
in other words keeping things the same as they are now ), which is why I 
designed the FedoraOS ( which is just different approach to the 
layer/rings design ) concept differently and tried to propose that the 
base layer was provided by the WG's themselves and the baseWG would be 
focusing strictly around the core ( which is required to make an actual 
focused change ).

The WG process does not help us improving our community, our products 
and brings us closer to upstream all of which is required to keep us 
relevant as an potential distribution for contributors to participate in 
and end users to use.

I've said it before and say it again what is taking place with the WG 
effort is nothing but dressing the emperor in new clothes while trying 
to duck tape wings on an elephant in the hopes of making it fly which 
benefits no one but self serving interest individuals and company's ( of 
most notably Red Hat ) with the end result being the same as we are now 
with just with more focus on driving us to irrelevance instead of 
interest and participation...

What we need is an real change in the project and that requires new ways 
of thinking and approaching things.

JBG

[Matthew Miller]

On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 08:26:41AM +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
>  The base end's up being broken compromises between the working
>  groups ( in other words keeping things the same as they are now ),
>  which is why I designed the FedoraOS ( which is just different
>  approach to the layer/rings design ) concept differently and tried
>  to propose that the base layer was provided by the WG's themselves
>  and the baseWG would be focusing strictly around the core ( which is
>  required to make an actual focused change ). 
Can you elaborate a bit on the distinction between "core" and "base"
you are
making here? Those terms mean different things to different people.


>  What we need is an real change in the project and that requires new
>  ways of thinking and approaching things. 
As always, I'm listening and open to helping integrate improvements to the
process as we go forward.

-- 
Matthew Miller  --  Fedora Project Architect --  <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;