Beta Release Notes

[Jonathan Roberts]

Hi all,

The beta release notes can be found at:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes

I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :)

A few things I realise already:

 * I don't know if swfdec has been voted on yet, but it's easily
removed if needs be
 * Not all features on FeatureList are listed there, please add what's
missing or let us know things that should definitely be included!
 * There's probably some technical in-accuracies or missing
information. Again, please let us know or make the changes yourself :)

Thanks,

Jon

[Patrice Dumas]

On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 12:58:17PM +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  
>  The beta release notes can be found at:
>  
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
>  
>  I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
>  suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :)
>  
>  A few things I realise already:
>  
>   * I don't know if swfdec has been voted on yet, but it's easily
>  removed if needs be 
I must have missed something, but if gnash 0.8.2 makes its way in fedora
it will be better than swfdec (though swfdec is better than 0.8.1).

Where are those things discussed?

--
Pat

[Bastien Nocera]

On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 14:20 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote:
<snip>
>  I must have missed something, but if gnash 0.8.2 makes its way in
> fedora
>  it will be better than swfdec (though swfdec is better than 0.8.1).
>  
>  Where are those things discussed? 
They were "discussed" here. swfdec uses GStreamer for media playback,
and supports the missing-plugins framework. gnash doesn't do the latter.

[Patrice Dumas]

On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 01:32:32PM +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
>  
>  On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 14:20 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote:
>  <snip>
>  > I must have missed something, but if gnash 0.8.2 makes its way in fedora
>  > it will be better than swfdec (though swfdec is better than 0.8.1).
>  > 
>  > Where are those things discussed?
>  
>  They were "discussed" here. swfdec uses GStreamer for media playback,
>  and supports the missing-plugins framework. gnash doesn't do the latter. 
Makes sense. Did somebody knowing that subject contact gnash developpers
to ask them to implement that feature?

--
Pat

[Bastien Nocera]

On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 17:58 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote:
>  On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 01:32:32PM +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
>  > 
>  > On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 14:20 +0100, Patrice Dumas wrote:
>  > <snip>
>  > > I must have missed something, but if gnash 0.8.2 makes its way in fedora
>  > > it will be better than swfdec (though swfdec is better than 0.8.1).
>  > > 
>  > > Where are those things discussed?
>  > 
>  > They were "discussed" here. swfdec uses GStreamer for media playback,
>  > and supports the missing-plugins framework. gnash doesn't do the latter.
>  
>  Makes sense. Did somebody knowing that subject contact gnash developpers
>  to ask them to implement that feature? 
I didn't even know you could use GStreamer to do playback before today.
swfdec is getting more traction in our circles as one part of it has
been accepted into the GNOME desktop release (swfdec-gnome).

We can always rethink the decisions when tihngs are more clear cut on
either sides.

[Patrice Dumas]

On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 05:59:49PM +0000, Bastien Nocera wrote:
>  
>  I didn't even know you could use GStreamer to do playback before today.
>  swfdec is getting more traction in our circles as one part of it has
>  been accepted into the GNOME desktop release (swfdec-gnome). 
swfdec-gnome is not very interesting. The interesting part is the
mozilla plugin. There is a gnash counterpart for swfdec-gnome, gtk-gnash
(which is the default gnash). And gnash, additionally has a sdl, a fltk
and a kde gui.

It seems that there is a thumbnailer integrated in gnome, though, which
has no counterpart in gnash. It doesn't seems to me, however, that
swfdec-player is much better integrated than gtk-gnash (though it is a
bit better integrated, the difference isn't striking).

>  We can always rethink the decisions when tihngs are more clear cut
> on
>  either sides. 
Indeed.

--
Pat

[Rahul Sundaram]

Patrice Dumas wrote:

>  
>  I must have missed something, but if gnash 0.8.2 makes its way in fedora
>  it will be better than swfdec (though swfdec is better than 0.8.1).
>   
What makes it better?

>  Where are those things discussed? 
fedora-desktop list. Refer

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-January/msg00075...

Rahul

[Patrice Dumas]

On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 07:04:08PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>  Patrice Dumas wrote:
>
> >
> > I must have missed something, but if gnash 0.8.2 makes its way in fedora
> > it will be better than swfdec (though swfdec is better than 0.8.1).
> >
>
>  What makes it better? 
I saw some report of people having tested what worked with swfdec, I
tested it and also tested the upcoming gnash version, and it seemed,
subjectively, that gnash was slightly better. It is very subjective,
though. Maybe others have better metrics.

--
Pat

[Bastien Nocera]

On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 12:58 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  
>  The beta release notes can be found at:
>  
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
>  
>  I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
>  suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :) 
I've added mention of a few Bluetooth features (ObexFTP and ObexPush
client and servers, Palm sync over Bluetooth).

Not sure how to add those:
- Totem got DVB and DVD support, given the right plugins are installed
(link to upstream site? http://www.gnome.org/projects/totem/#dvb and
http://www.gnome.org/projects/totem/#codecs)
- Totem also has better text subtitles support, a YouTube search plugin,
a MythTV plugin
- Rhythmbox is now the default CD player, and got UPNP support as well
as better Podcast support (Atom feeds, and iTunes Podcasts)

[Nicolas Mailhot]

>  On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 12:58 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The beta release notes can be found at:
> >
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
> >
> > I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
> > suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :) 
1. evdev was enabled in X, which should improve support of many
so-called "multimedia" keys.

2. The Fedora font selection changed, with many new fonts added and a
few dropped following a licensing audit.

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

[Rahul Sundaram]

Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 12:58 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> The beta release notes can be found at:
> >>
> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
> >>
> >> I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
> >> suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :)
>  
>  1. evdev was enabled in X, which should improve support of many
>  so-called "multimedia" keys.
>  
>  2. The Fedora font selection changed, with many new fonts added and a
>  few dropped following a licensing audit. 
Do you have more information on what has changed?

Rahul

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le Mer 5 mars 2008 15:14, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
>  Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 12:58 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> The beta release notes can be found at:
> >>>
> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
> >>>
> >>> I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
> >>> suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :)
> >
> > 1. evdev was enabled in X, which should improve support of many
> > so-called "multimedia" keys.
> >
> > 2. The Fedora font selection changed, with many new fonts added and
> > a few dropped following a licensing audit.
>
>  Do you have more information on what has changed? 
- DejaVu full replaces DejaVu LGC as default font set. LGC still
available in the repo for users wishing to downgrade the default font
coverage.
- Luxi was dropped. Not modifiable.
- DejaVu and Liberation updated to new versions with more coverage.
- Many historic font packages were renamed and reorganised (the end of
the font-region bundles)
- Stix, Tiresias, Yanonne, Greek Font Society font set were added (and
several others I don't remember from the top of my head, diffing comps
files from F8 at release time and Rawhide or asking Jens should tell
the full story)

Not for the release notes, but for the list: we have good official
packaging guidelines for TTF/OTF fonts now, and a huge font wishlist.
What we are lacking is packagers. Please come join the fun!

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

[Paul W. Frields]

On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 15:28 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  Le Mer 5 mars 2008 15:14, Rahul Sundaram a écrit :
>  > Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
>  >>> On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 12:58 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  >>>> Hi all,
>  >>>>
>  >>>> The beta release notes can be found at:
>  >>>>
>  >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
>  >>>>
>  >>>> I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and
> make
>  >>>> suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :)
>  >>
>  >> 1. evdev was enabled in X, which should improve support of many
>  >> so-called "multimedia" keys.
>  >>
>  >> 2. The Fedora font selection changed, with many new fonts added and
>  >> a few dropped following a licensing audit.
>  >
>  > Do you have more information on what has changed?
>  
>  - DejaVu full replaces DejaVu LGC as default font set. LGC still
>  available in the repo for users wishing to downgrade the default font
>  coverage.
>  - Luxi was dropped. Not modifiable.
>  - DejaVu and Liberation updated to new versions with more coverage.
>  - Many historic font packages were renamed and reorganised (the end of
>  the font-region bundles)
>  - Stix, Tiresias, Yanonne, Greek Font Society font set were added (and
>  several others I don't remember from the top of my head, diffing comps
>  files from F8 at release time and Rawhide or asking Jens should tell
>  the full story)
>  
>  Not for the release notes, but for the list: we have good official
>  packaging guidelines for TTF/OTF fonts now, and a huge font wishlist.
>  What we are lacking is packagers. Please come join the fun! 
/me reminds responders that it's just as easy to dump these blurbs into
the wiki directly.  Documentation folks will clean them up and ask for
any necessary clarifications based on who added them.  Thanks for the
release notes content!

-- 
Paul W. Frields                                http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
  http://redhat.com/   -  -  -  -   http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
  irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

[Rahul Sundaram]

Bastien Nocera wrote:
>  On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 12:58 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > The beta release notes can be found at:
> >
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
> >
> > I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
> > suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :)
>  
>  I've added mention of a few Bluetooth features (ObexFTP and ObexPush
>  client and servers, Palm sync over Bluetooth). 
Do you have any screenshots or screecasts showing off this feature?

>  Not sure how to add those:
>  - Totem got DVB and DVD support, given the right plugins are installed
>  (link to upstream site? http://www.gnome.org/projects/totem/#dvb and
>  http://www.gnome.org/projects/totem/#codecs)
>  - Totem also has better text subtitles support, a YouTube search plugin,
>  a MythTV plugin
>  - Rhythmbox is now the default CD player, and got UPNP support as well
>  as better Podcast support (Atom feeds, and iTunes Podcasts) 
Just dump the content into the wiki and we will sort it out. Again, 
screenshots are useful.

Rahul

[Martin Nagy]

Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  The beta release notes can be found at:
>  
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
>  
>  I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
>  suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :) 
Squid got updated to squid-3.0.STABLE1 and there are some 
incompatibilities in configuration. For example, the old default config 
that was included in squid-2.6.STABLE17-1 won't work with the new squid. 
Is this worth noting in the release notes?

Regards,
Martin

[Till Maas]

On Wed March 5 2008, Martin Nagy wrote:

>  Squid got updated to squid-3.0.STABLE1 and there are some
>  incompatibilities in configuration. For example, the old default config
>  that was included in squid-2.6.STABLE17-1 won't work with the new squid.
>  Is this worth noting in the release notes? 
yes,

Regards,
Till

[Till Maas]

On Wed March 5 2008, Till Maas wrote:
>  On Wed March 5 2008, Martin Nagy wrote:
>  > Squid got updated to squid-3.0.STABLE1 and there are some
>  > incompatibilities in configuration. For example, the old default config
>  > that was included in squid-2.6.STABLE17-1 won't work with the new squid.
>  > Is this worth noting in the release notes?
>
>  yes, 
Eh, this was just my personal opinion. I just noticed that my similiar note 
about config file changes in pam_mount where removed from the alpha release 
notes. So maybe it is not worth noting.

Regards,
Till

[Jonathan Roberts]

On 05/03/2008, Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed March 5 2008, Till Maas wrote:
>   > On Wed March 5 2008, Martin Nagy wrote:
>   > > Squid got updated to squid-3.0.STABLE1 and there are some
>   > > incompatibilities in configuration. For example, the old default config
>   > > that was included in squid-2.6.STABLE17-1 won't work with the new squid.
>   > > Is this worth noting in the release notes?
>   >
>   > yes,
>
>
>  Eh, this was just my personal opinion. I just noticed that my similiar note
>   about config file changes in pam_mount where removed from the alpha release
>   notes. So maybe it is not worth noting. 
I feel this is probably worth noting, I'm not sure why it was removed
last time but I'll add a section perhaps for general technical points
testers should note?

I'm probably not doing any more work on it this evening, but if people
want to add a section along those lines we can tweak it etc to make it
read well with the rest of the document later...

Thanks,

Jon

[Till Maas]

On Wed March 5 2008, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  On 05/03/2008, Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name&gt; wrote:
>  > On Wed March 5 2008, Till Maas wrote:
>  >  > On Wed March 5 2008, Martin Nagy wrote:
>  >  > > Squid got updated to squid-3.0.STABLE1 and there are some
>  >  > > incompatibilities in configuration. For example, the old default
>  >  > > config that was included in squid-2.6.STABLE17-1 won't work with the
>  >  > > new squid. Is this worth noting in the release notes?
>  >  >
>  >  > yes,
>  >
>  > Eh, this was just my personal opinion. I just noticed that my similiar
>  > note about config file changes in pam_mount where removed from the alpha
>  > release notes. So maybe it is not worth noting.
>
>  I feel this is probably worth noting, I'm not sure why it was removed
>  last time but I'll add a section perhaps for general technical points
>  testers should note? 
Hm, you should know it, I searched for the changeset that removed the note and 
it was done by you:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Alpha/ReleaseNotes?action=diff&a...

Maybe it was an accident then? The changeset is pretty big and there is no 
comment so I cannot tell. You also removed several other sections:
- Intended Audience for Development Releases
- Translations of Release Notes

Maybe they should be readded to the beta release notes, too.

Regards,
Till

[Jonathan Roberts]

>  Hm, you should know it, I searched for the changeset that removed the
> note and
>   it was done by you:
>  
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Alpha/ReleaseNotes?action=diff&a...
Oh, oops :S I've taken a look at the changes listed and I can see what
happened here. Basically, it was a mistake! I'd made a version that
changed a lot of things that I'd constructed in my personal wiki area
and then I just dropped it in. Apparently I missed this and perhaps it
wasn't the best practice, I know better for the future now though :)
>   Maybe it was an accident then? The changeset is pretty big and there is no
>   comment so I cannot tell. You also removed several other sections:
>   - Intended Audience for Development Releases
>   - Translations of Release Notes
>
>   Maybe they should be readded to the beta release notes, too. 
I don't think the first of these need adding in as it's covered by
"What is Beta?" section, but the second should perhaps be added again
so I'll try and see to that tomorrow.

Any how, sorry for wiping out that bit in the Alpha notes, I hope you
like the changes overall to the Alpha and Beta Release Notes and
hopefully we can get these tweaks made soon.

Best wishes,

Jon

[Till Maas]

On Wed March 5 2008, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  > Hm, you should know it, I searched for the changeset that
> removed the
>  > note and it was done by you:
>  > 
>  > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Alpha/ReleaseNotes?action=diff&a...
>  >ev2=33&rev1=32
>
>  Oh, oops :S I've taken a look at the changes listed and I can see what
>  happened here. Basically, it was a mistake! I'd made a version that
>  changed a lot of things that I'd constructed in my personal wiki area
>  and then I just dropped it in. Apparently I missed this and perhaps it
>  wasn't the best practice, I know better for the future now though :) 
Allright, I readded the pam_mount note back to the beta release notes.

>  >  Maybe it was an accident then? The changeset is pretty big and
> there is
>  > no comment so I cannot tell. You also removed several other sections: -
>  > Intended Audience for Development Releases
>  >  - Translations of Release Notes
>  >
>  >  Maybe they should be readded to the beta release notes, too.
>
>  I don't think the first of these need adding in as it's covered by
>  "What is Beta?" section, but the second should perhaps be added again
>  so I'll try and see to that tomorrow. 
The "Intended Audience for Development Releases" gave a nice and short 
introduction of the development releases and explained the relation of each 
to each other. I integrated it back into the beta release notes, maybe this 
is acceptable for you, too.



Regards,
Till

[Martin Nagy]

Till Maas wrote:
> > Squid got updated to squid-3.0.STABLE1 and there are some
> > incompatibilities in configuration. For example, the old default config
> > that was included in squid-2.6.STABLE17-1 won't work with the new squid.
> > Is this worth noting in the release notes?
>  
>  yes, 
Would someone add it please? Or should I?

Regards,
Martin

[Till Maas]

On Wed March 5 2008, Martin Nagy wrote:

>  Would someone add it please? Or should I? 
You can add it, maybe you can also provide a link to a verbose explanation of 
the config file changes, i.e. which options where removed/renamed/have a 
different syntax.

Regards,
Till

[Bruno Wolff III]

On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 12:58:17 +0000,
  Jonathan Roberts <jonathan.roberts.uk(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
>  suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :) 
You really want to warn people about the postgres update. As usual you need
to dump on the old version, which is a bit of a pain to discover after
you have upgraded. While old hands will know to expect this, newer users
of postgres are likely to get bitten by it.

[Mark McLoughlin]

Hey,

On Wed, 2008-03-05 at 12:58 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  
>  The beta release notes can be found at:
>  
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes
>  
>  I'd appreciate it if people would look over what's there and make
>  suggestions on list or changes to the page itself :) 
I've updated the virt section with some details on kernel-xen changes,
but we could really do with emphasising that Xen Dom0 users need to
stick with Fedora 8 for now.

See here for more details:

  http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-xen/2008-March/msg00013.html

Should we have a warnings/regressions section?

Cheers,
Mark.