From sheep at graze.net Fri Jan 30 00:30:40 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7733748267879944034==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian C. Huffman To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:31:28 -0500 Message-ID: <1075440688.3821.4.camel@oveja.graze.net> --===============7733748267879944034== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to have a show of hands of who's for xine and who's for mplayer. Which one is the better choice for a complete multimedia solution? I've used both and have to say that I've had problems with both. = With xine I've been able to play most all formats with the exception of Windows media (although I know the codecs are out there). I've gotten the gxine frontend which includes a plugin for mozilla. Unfortunately I've had many many crashes of mozilla / xine when using the plugin. With mplayer (which I've just recently installed), I've had better stability (although it has crashed on inline movies), but I don't know the extent of the formats that it can play. Also I haven't seen a frontend to mplayer so far....I assume that one does exist. Thoughts? Experiences? Thanks in advance! Brian --===============7733748267879944034==-- From hvdkooij at vanderkooij.org Fri Jan 30 01:32:27 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2948827678698899541==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Hugo van der Kooij To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:33:21 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 1075440688.3821.4.camel@oveja.graze.net --===============2948827678698899541== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Brian C. Huffman wrote: > I'd like to have a show of hands of who's for xine and who's for > mplayer. Which one is the better choice for a complete multimedia > solution? I've used both and have to say that I've had problems with > both. xine seems to be less stable and why it insists to try and play RPM files is beyond me. I have never seen rpm files intended for RealPlayer. Hugo. -- = All email sent to me is bound to the rules described on my homepage. hvdkooij(a)vanderkooij.org http://hvdkooij.xs4all.nl/ Don't meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger. --===============2948827678698899541==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Fri Jan 30 02:40:29 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7840789248198650567==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:40:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20040130074006.GA24166@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 1075440688.3821.4.camel@oveja.graze.net --===============7840789248198650567== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian C. Huffman : > I'd like to have a show of hands of who's for xine and who's for > mplayer. Which one is the better choice for a complete multimedia > solution? I've used both and have to say that I've had problems with > both. = I'm a fan of xone myself, though the people who did the UI weren't thinking about people with 100dpi monitors and some of their fancy displays are nigh-unreadable for me. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============7840789248198650567==-- From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Jan 30 02:46:29 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3809914512444022903==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: seth vidal To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:42:31 -0500 Message-ID: <1075448551.2343.26.camel@binkley> In-Reply-To: 20040130074006.GA24166@thyrsus.com --===============3809914512444022903== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 02:40, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Brian C. Huffman : > > I'd like to have a show of hands of who's for xine and who's for > > mplayer. Which one is the better choice for a complete multimedia > > solution? I've used both and have to say that I've had problems with > > both. = > = > I'm a fan of xone myself, though the people who did the UI weren't thinki= ng > about people with 100dpi monitors and some of their fancy displays are > nigh-unreadable for me. totem with the xine backend makes for a nice front end to xine. I've been using it for all my movie watching and it's a nice, simple and obvious (for the most part) interface. it's in the livna archives if anyone wants to try it out. -sv --===============3809914512444022903==-- From tealeg at member.fsf.org Fri Jan 30 03:08:46 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1532740016116172856==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Geoff Teale To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 08:09:04 +0000 Message-ID: <1075450144.13293.3.camel@beast.lan> In-Reply-To: 1075448551.2343.26.camel@binkley --===============1532740016116172856== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 07:42, seth vidal wrote: > totem with the xine backend makes for a nice front end to xine. I've > been using it for all my movie watching and it's a nice, simple and > obvious (for the most part) interface. > = > it's in the livna archives if anyone wants to try it out. > -sv Totem is great. One way it scores over straight Xine is that it maintains the Gtk2 look of the default Gnome desktop which, whilst not as pretty as a Xine or Mplayer skin, looks a whole lot more "professional" - something that Red Hat achieved with Red Hat 8 and 9 and something I wouldn't want to see lost from Fedora. It's amazing what a difference a consistent look and feel can make to potential desktop users out there in business-land. -- = Geoff Teale general: home : work : --===============1532740016116172856== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUdoRWd0K1JiNTlodWQ0QVJBb21qQUo0cVZ4a0ZPNFd2K2U2Y1dOcDVt Rm94alEyYjZnQ2ZWWVQxCnJ4S2VPOG5KdWxBOGhlT1lGeDBHZ01JPQo9ZlB4aQotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============1532740016116172856==-- From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Fri Jan 30 03:16:32 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3195866266839769190==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: seth vidal To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:12:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1075450355.2343.29.camel@binkley> In-Reply-To: 1075450144.13293.3.camel@beast.lan --===============3195866266839769190== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 03:09, Geoff Teale wrote: > On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 07:42, seth vidal wrote: > > totem with the xine backend makes for a nice front end to xine. I've > > been using it for all my movie watching and it's a nice, simple and > > obvious (for the most part) interface. > > = > > it's in the livna archives if anyone wants to try it out. > > -sv > = > Totem is great. One way it scores over straight Xine is that it > maintains the Gtk2 look of the default Gnome desktop which, whilst not > as pretty as a Xine or Mplayer skin, looks a whole lot more It's funny, I've never liked the default xine or mplayer skins b/c I can never figure out what the damn buttons do. Totem's buttons are obvious or labeled. So from an ease-of-use standpoint sometimes consistent is much nicer than pretty. -sv --===============3195866266839769190==-- From pmatilai at welho.com Fri Jan 30 03:21:06 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2579695534848365329==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Panu Matilainen To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 10:21:57 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 1075450355.2343.29.camel@binkley --===============2579695534848365329== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, seth vidal wrote: > On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 03:09, Geoff Teale wrote: > > On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 07:42, seth vidal wrote: > > > totem with the xine backend makes for a nice front end to xine. I've > > > been using it for all my movie watching and it's a nice, simple and > > > obvious (for the most part) interface. > > > = > > > it's in the livna archives if anyone wants to try it out. > > > -sv > > = > > Totem is great. One way it scores over straight Xine is that it > > maintains the Gtk2 look of the default Gnome desktop which, whilst not > > as pretty as a Xine or Mplayer skin, looks a whole lot more > = > It's funny, I've never liked the default xine or mplayer skins b/c I can > never figure out what the damn buttons do. Heh, glad to know I'm not alone feeling that way :) = > = > Totem's buttons are obvious or labeled. > = > So from an ease-of-use standpoint sometimes consistent is much nicer > than pretty. Actually I don't even find the likes of xmms and xine UI's (well skins) = pretty by any means, just messy and sticking out like a sore thumb from = the rest of the applications. - Panu - --===============2579695534848365329==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Fri Jan 30 03:21:44 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2090539906698613967==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:21:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20040130082121.GA24569@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 1075448551.2343.26.camel@binkley --===============2090539906698613967== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable seth vidal : > totem with the xine backend makes for a nice front end to xine. I've > been using it for all my movie watching and it's a nice, simple and > obvious (for the most part) interface. > = > it's in the livna archives if anyone wants to try it out. Wow.... Totem *rocks*! This is just what I've been looking for, and it's going straight into the Fedora Multimedia Installation HOWTO I'm working up. I must say, despite my frustration with OpenOffice and the nonexistent RPM submission process, it is wicked cool to be able to ^Z out of my mailer, type 'yum totem', and try it out less than 30 seconds later. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============2090539906698613967==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Fri Jan 30 03:29:52 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7958806282795550652==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 03:29:29 -0500 Message-ID: <20040130082929.GB24569@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 1075450355.2343.29.camel@binkley --===============7958806282795550652== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable seth vidal : > It's funny, I've never liked the default xine or mplayer skins b/c I can > never figure out what the damn buttons do. I like xine, but not for its UI. My previous gripe about not playing well with 100dpi displays was only the beginning of my discontent with it. The default xine front end is a classic case of bad design, an interface that is all glossy surfaces and no substance. It's cramped, cluttered, chronically difficult to understand, and subordinates every usability consideration to the purely visual objective of looking like a piece of glossy stereo equipment. *ptui* I grant that it's an attempt to be "friendly" for the non-technical user, but it's a clumsy, hamfisted, *stupid* attempt. Not anything to be emulate= d. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============7958806282795550652==-- From arvindn at meenakshi.cs.iitm.ernet.in Fri Jan 30 03:53:56 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4507078351599350703==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Arvind Narayanan To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:00:22 +0530 Message-ID: <20040130140021.A14192@meenakshi.cs.iitm.ernet.in> In-Reply-To: 1075440688.3821.4.camel@oveja.graze.net --===============4507078351599350703== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 30, 2004 at 12:31:28AM -0500, Brian C. Huffman wrote: = > With mplayer (which I've just recently installed), I've had better > stability (although it has crashed on inline movies), but I don't know > the extent of the formats that it can play. = It plays everything (assuming you're ok with using proprietary codes of course). Have you checked out http://www2.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/? You can simply drop win32 codecs into /usr/lib/win32 and it just works. > Also I haven't seen a > frontend to mplayer so far....I assume that one does exist. > = > Thoughts? Experiences? All the skinnable media players make me want to gouge my eyes out, without = exception. There's at least one front end for mplayer - gmplayer, but I haven't used it. I'm perfectly comfortable with the command line = interface. Which is also extremely useful for automated dumping and re-encoding of large numbers of files in proprietary format streamed through proprietary protocols :-) Cheers, Arvind -- = Its all GNU to me --===============4507078351599350703==-- From gteale at cmedltd.com Fri Jan 30 04:57:15 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3101051119835093239==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Geoff Teale To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:58:03 +0000 Message-ID: <1075456683.20723.200.camel@dubya> In-Reply-To: 20040130082929.GB24569@thyrsus.com --===============3101051119835093239== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 08:29, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > The default xine front end is a classic case of bad design, an > interface that is all glossy surfaces and no substance. It's cramped, > cluttered, chronically difficult to understand, and subordinates every > usability consideration to the purely visual objective of looking like > a piece of glossy stereo equipment. > = > *ptui* > = > I grant that it's an attempt to be "friendly" for the non-technical user, > but it's a clumsy, hamfisted, *stupid* attempt. Not anything to be emula= ted. Amen! A lot of people attribute some of the bad UI's in F/OSS to the lack of resources for usability testing on non-commercial projects. This may be true in part, but I see an equal lack of such testing if commercial software through a lack of understanding rather than a lack of resource. Too much effort is spent on making things look "cool" or making them "skinable" to little effort is spent on making things usable. Simple consistency of interface is a big step and it's one of the reasons that Red Hat 8/9 was easier to get onto people's desktops than Red Hat 7. = I'd like to see Fedora strive to provide applications, wherever possible, that conform to Gnome HIG, or at least try to provide a sensible, consistent interface design. If people want something else they can look to Fedora extras/alternatives surely? -- = GJT = gteale(a)cmedltd.com = Life is like a tin of sardines. We're, all of us, looking for the key. -- Beyond the Fringe --===============3101051119835093239==-- From chadley at pinteq.co.za Fri Jan 30 05:29:21 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7556562982955949771==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chadley Wilson To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:30:07 +0200 Message-ID: <1075458606.3112.54.camel@chad.workgroup> In-Reply-To: 1075456683.20723.200.camel@dubya --===============7556562982955949771== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 11:58, Geoff Teale wrote: > On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 08:29, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > The default xine front end is a classic case of bad design, an > > interface that is all glossy surfaces and no substance. It's cramped, > > cluttered, chronically difficult to understand, and subordinates every > > usability consideration to the purely visual objective of looking like > > a piece of glossy stereo equipment. > > = > > *ptui* > > = > > I grant that it's an attempt to be "friendly" for the non-technical use= r, > > but it's a clumsy, hamfisted, *stupid* attempt. Not anything to be emu= lated. > > = > Amen! > = > A lot of people attribute some of the bad UI's in F/OSS to the lack of > resources for usability testing on non-commercial projects. This may be > true in part, but I see an equal lack of such testing if commercial > software through a lack of understanding rather than a lack of resource. > = > Too much effort is spent on making things look "cool" or making them > "skinable" to little effort is spent on making things usable. Simple > consistency of interface is a big step and it's one of the reasons that > Red Hat 8/9 was easier to get onto people's desktops than Red Hat 7. = > = > I'd like to see Fedora strive to provide applications, wherever > possible, that conform to Gnome HIG, or at least try to provide a > sensible, consistent interface design. If people want something else > they can look to Fedora extras/alternatives surely? > = > -- = > GJT = > gteale(a)cmedltd.com = > = > Life is like a tin of sardines. > We're, all of us, looking for the key. > -- Beyond the Fringe This is true but for me a technical person and by no means a programmer, as long as it works I'm happy. -- = Chadley Wilson --===============7556562982955949771==-- From P at draigBrady.com Fri Jan 30 06:29:14 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7886663766114640293==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?utf-8?q?P=C3=A1draig_Brady_=3CP_at_draigBrady=2Ecom=3E?= To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:30:05 +0000 Message-ID: <401A403D.2040707@draigBrady.com> In-Reply-To: 20040130082929.GB24569@thyrsus.com --===============7886663766114640293== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > = > I like xine, but not for its UI. My previous gripe about not playing > well with 100dpi displays was only the beginning of my discontent > with it. > = > The default xine front end is a classic case of bad design, an > interface that is all glossy surfaces and no substance. It's cramped, > cluttered, chronically difficult to understand, and subordinates every > usability consideration to the purely visual objective of looking like > a piece of glossy stereo equipment. > = > *ptui* > = > I grant that it's an attempt to be "friendly" for the non-technical user, > but it's a clumsy, hamfisted, *stupid* attempt. Not anything to be emula= ted. > = > Agreed! One of my pet hates is the GUI for multimedia apps on linux. xmms isn't too bad but xine is just silly. jwz has a rant on this: http://www.jwz.org/doc/linuxvideo.html P=C3=A1draig. --===============7886663766114640293==-- From tony at tgds.net Fri Jan 30 07:45:06 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8845478943353660524==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tony To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:45:53 +0100 Message-ID: <1075466753.5020.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040130140021.A14192@meenakshi.cs.iitm.ernet.in --===============8845478943353660524== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable xine uses less CPU on my Epia-M. xine does not have memory leaks xine crashes just as often as mplayer the first one that supports HW mpeg acceleration on the Epia-M will win in the end As for the GUI I wish someone would do a controller like the Mac OS X controller... ducking and donning flameproof vest... I used to play my DVDs on Mac only Cheers Tony Grant -- = www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit --===============8845478943353660524==-- From icon at linux.duke.edu Fri Jan 30 07:58:32 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0874286362654200370==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Konstantin Ryabitsev To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:59:27 -0500 Message-ID: <401A552F.30200@linux.duke.edu> In-Reply-To: 1075466753.5020.101.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============0874286362654200370== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 30.01.2004 07:45, Tony Grant wrote: > xine uses less CPU on my Epia-M. I would also note, that mplayer is a pain to use on non-x86 = architectures. It is so optimized to run well on x86, that every = other arch will have performance problems. For example, on my G4 = Powerbook (500Mhz) I cannot play any movies using mplayer without it = dropping frames left and right. Totem/Xine, on the other hand, work = very smoothly. Regards, -- = Konstantin ("Icon") Riabitsev Duke Physics Systems Admin, RHCE I am looking for a job in Canada! http://linux.duke.edu/~icon/cajob.ptml --===============0874286362654200370==-- From russell at coker.com.au Fri Jan 30 09:28:46 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============9174800013140312611==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Russell Coker To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 01:29:40 +1100 Message-ID: <200401310129.40355.russell@coker.com.au> In-Reply-To: 401A552F.30200@linux.duke.edu --===============9174800013140312611== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:59, Konstantin Riabitsev wro= te: > I would also note, that mplayer is a pain to use on non-x86 > architectures. It is so optimized to run well on x86, that every > other arch will have performance problems. For example, on my G4 > Powerbook (500Mhz) I cannot play any movies using mplayer without it I use the i386 version of mplayer. Some time ago I found that the i686 = version would SEGV or refuse to play some files. The i386 version worked = fine and I've stuck with it (I didn't notice any performance difference). -- = http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page --===============9174800013140312611==-- From orospakr at infomaninc.dyndns.org Fri Jan 30 11:18:56 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3241211381674559072==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Andrew Clunis To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 11:15:58 -0500 Message-ID: <1075479358.4703.16.camel@stinkpad> In-Reply-To: 1075440688.3821.4.camel@oveja.graze.net --===============3241211381674559072== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! I used to be for Xine, but now I'm an mplayer guy. mencoder has proved especially handy. And, indeed, I do find mplayer more stable. It seems to be a somewhat more active project (again, if I have this wrong, please correct me). As for file formats, it has great support on its own for most popular formats that are reasonably "open", noteably OGG and the MPEGs. It can DVDs out of the box. (on Fedora, you may find you have to ln -s /dev/cdrom /dev/dvd) Proprietary things like Windows Media, Real Media, and Quicktime can be played (on x86 computers) using the wrapped Windows DLLs. With the full kit out of mplayer and these wrapped binary codecs (available as add-ons from mplayer's website, it's been able to play everything I've thrown at it! it was even able to stream Windows Media off an mms server, which was very cool. (I might also note that mplayer makes a great streamripper! In fact, I don't think there is any Windows player that can rip WM streams. Mplayer can). Of course, the best solution is just to not use these ugly formats and use Open and Free formats. But if you have one of those files you haven't much choice... Another thing I like about mplayer is that it's gmplayer UI is very nice for people who aren't geeks, which is a very good thing for GNU/Linux on the desktop. Brian, if you're using Fedora, just go to the mplayer download page and use their RPMs, and you can pick and choose what features you want. :) Mplayer also has a mozilla plugin, but I kinda avoid that stuff, so I can't really comment on its stability. It would be really cool to see mplayer (just the Free Software program itself, not any of the ugly wrapped binaries I mentioned above, obviously) in Fedora, but I expect it won't happen because of patent issues with MPEG, the same reason why xmms-mp3 got yanked. Good luck! Regards, Andrew Clunis On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 00:31, Brian C. Huffman wrote: > I'd like to have a show of hands of who's for xine and who's for > mplayer. Which one is the better choice for a complete multimedia > solution? I've used both and have to say that I've had problems with > both. = > = > With xine I've been able to play most all formats with the exception of > Windows media (although I know the codecs are out there). I've gotten > the gxine frontend which includes a plugin for mozilla. Unfortunately > I've had many many crashes of mozilla / xine when using the plugin. > = > With mplayer (which I've just recently installed), I've had better > stability (although it has crashed on inline movies), but I don't know > the extent of the formats that it can play. Also I haven't seen a > frontend to mplayer so far....I assume that one does exist. > = > Thoughts? Experiences? > = > Thanks in advance! > Brian >=20 --===============3241211381674559072== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4yIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUdvTTlBTGtVTVhTTm93OFJBa3gxQUp3SVArbTFWOGRBOWJ0OWZML0Rs ZXhjbEZrelN3Q2d4SUNlCllrR3JqS1BnWk1SaWdJczZpdm5HbENzPQo9TktONQotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============3241211381674559072==-- From hvdkooij at vanderkooij.org Fri Jan 30 13:53:30 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8005842876924722625==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Hugo van der Kooij To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:54:24 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 20040130082121.GA24569@thyrsus.com --===============8005842876924722625== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > I must say, despite my frustration with OpenOffice and the nonexistent > RPM submission process, it is wicked cool to be able to ^Z out of my > mailer, type 'yum totem', and try it out less than 30 seconds later. Just extremely curious what you did add to your YUM config. I got "Cannot find a package matching totem" with the default and ucnommented entries. Hugo. -- = All email sent to me is bound to the rules described on my homepage. hvdkooij(a)vanderkooij.org http://hvdkooij.xs4all.nl/ Don't meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger. --===============8005842876924722625==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Fri Jan 30 13:59:12 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2703149688504660865==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 13:58:43 -0500 Message-ID: <20040130185843.GA29987@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.58.0401301953140.26420@gandalf.hugo.vanderkooij.org --===============2703149688504660865== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hugo van der Kooij : > On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > = > > I must say, despite my frustration with OpenOffice and the nonexistent > > RPM submission process, it is wicked cool to be able to ^Z out of my > > mailer, type 'yum totem', and try it out less than 30 seconds later. > = > Just extremely curious what you did add to your YUM config. [livna-stable] name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (stable) baseurl=3D http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/stable gpgcheck=3D1 [livna-unstable] name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (unstable) baseurl=3Dhttp://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/unstable gpgcheck=3D1 [livna-testing] name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (testing) baseurl=3Dhttp://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/testing gpgcheck=3D1 -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============2703149688504660865==-- From ajn at ite.gmu.edu Fri Jan 30 15:07:00 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1491886387994368544==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Alastair Neil To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:00:13 -0500 Message-ID: <1075492813.14038.35.camel@island.ite.gmu.edu> In-Reply-To: 20040130185843.GA29987@thyrsus.com --===============1491886387994368544== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 13:58, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Hugo van der Kooij : > > On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > = > > > I must say, despite my frustration with OpenOffice and the nonexistent > > > RPM submission process, it is wicked cool to be able to ^Z out of my > > > mailer, type 'yum totem', and try it out less than 30 seconds later. > > = > > Just extremely curious what you did add to your YUM config. > = > [livna-stable] > name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (stable) > baseurl=3D http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/stable > gpgcheck=3D1 > = > [livna-unstable] > name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (unstable) > baseurl=3Dhttp://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/unstable > gpgcheck=3D1 > = > [livna-testing] > name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (testing) > baseurl=3Dhttp://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/testing > gpgcheck=3D1 > -- = > Eric S. Raymond [freshrpms] name=3DFedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - freshrpms baseurl=3Dhttp://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/fresh= rpms gpgcheck=3D1 will help with the xine dependencies -- = Dr. Alastair J. Neil IT&E Laboritory George Mason University, = Fairfax, Virginia, 22030 (703) 993-3953 --===============1491886387994368544==-- From alan at redhat.com Fri Jan 30 15:51:51 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1338920439171392540==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Alan Cox To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:52:22 -0500 Message-ID: <20040130205222.GE18301@devserv.devel.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: 1075466753.5020.101.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============1338920439171392540== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jan 30, 2004 at 01:45:53PM +0100, Tony Grant wrote: > the first one that supports HW mpeg acceleration on the Epia-M will win > in the end xine has a variant that already does. Just needs the reverse engineered libddmpeg work and my surfaces rewrite for via and some oddments to make it work open source --===============1338920439171392540==-- From linux at bytebot.net Sat Jan 31 03:20:55 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3141495395453035436==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Colin Charles To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:22:15 +1100 Message-ID: <1075537335.32731.122.camel@hermione> In-Reply-To: 401A552F.30200@linux.duke.edu --===============3141495395453035436== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 23:59, Konstantin Riabitsev wrote: > > xine uses less CPU on my Epia-M. > = > I would also note, that mplayer is a pain to use on non-x86 = > architectures. It is so optimized to run well on x86, that every = > other arch will have performance problems. For example, on my G4 = > Powerbook (500Mhz) I cannot play any movies using mplayer without it = > dropping frames left and right. Totem/Xine, on the other hand, work = > very smoothly. mplayer on my G3 iBook 800MHz runs just fine. Though I tend to use it as follows: mplayer -vo xv = I found the if I didn't use xv, I'd have issues on occassion. That said, Totem or Xine work smoothly on the PPC platform for me, as well. -- = Colin Charles, byte(a)aeon.com.my http://www.bytebot.net/ http://fedoranews.org/colin/fnu/ - Fedora News Updates --===============3141495395453035436==-- From tony at tgds.net Sat Jan 31 05:59:23 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5778376215421247732==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tony To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:00:16 +0100 Message-ID: <1075546815.8421.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040130205222.GE18301@devserv.devel.redhat.com --===============5778376215421247732== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le ven 30/01/2004 =C3=A0 21:52, Alan Cox a =C3=A9crit : > On Fri, Jan 30, 2004 at 01:45:53PM +0100, Tony Grant wrote: > > the first one that supports HW mpeg acceleration on the Epia-M will win > > in the end > = > xine has a variant that already does. Just needs the reverse engineered > libddmpeg work and my surfaces rewrite for via and some oddments to > make it work open source You mean ViacripplEdXinePlayer a.k.a VeXP=3D:-p Been there, tried that. When it doesn't crash and burn and when it allows DVB-S playback I'll look again. Cheers Tony Grant -- = www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit --===============5778376215421247732==-- From ms-nospam-0306 at arcor.de Sat Jan 31 06:23:25 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3613367574972602285==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Schwendt To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:24:28 +0100 Message-ID: <20040131122428.4223b154.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de> In-Reply-To: 1075492813.14038.35.camel@island.ite.gmu.edu --===============3613367574972602285== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:00:13 -0500, Alastair Neil wrote: > > [livna-stable] > > name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (stable) > > baseurl=3D http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/stable > > gpgcheck=3D1 > > = > > [livna-unstable] > > name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (unstable) > > baseurl=3Dhttp://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/unstable > > gpgcheck=3D1 > > = > > [livna-testing] > > name=3DLivna.org Fedora Compatible Packages (testing) > > baseurl=3Dhttp://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/yum/testing > > gpgcheck=3D1 > > -- = > > Eric S. Raymond > = > = > [freshrpms] > name=3DFedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - freshrpms > baseurl=3Dhttp://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/fre= shrpms > gpgcheck=3D1 > = > will help with the xine dependencies Not needed and not recommended. livna depends on fedora.us and Fedora Core, nothing else. -- = --===============3613367574972602285==-- From ville.skytta at iki.fi Sat Jan 31 06:40:55 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0445409145095879614==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?utf-8?q?Ville_Skytt=C3=A4_=3Cville=2Eskytta_at_iki=2Efi=3E?= To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:41:52 +0200 Message-ID: <1075549311.31017.152.camel@bobcat.mine.nu> In-Reply-To: 1075448551.2343.26.camel@binkley --===============0445409145095879614== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 09:42, seth vidal wrote: > totem with the xine backend makes for a nice front end to xine. [...] > it's in the livna archives if anyone wants to try it out. And for people who prefer KDE, the livna repo has kplayer and kaffeine. --===============0445409145095879614==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 09:52:12 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1013983159633082912==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:51:31 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131145130.GB5507@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 20040131122428.4223b154.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============1013983159633082912== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Copied to the rpm.livna.org maintainer. Michael Schwendt : > > [freshrpms] > > name=3DFedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - freshrpms > > baseurl=3Dhttp://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/f= reshrpms > > gpgcheck=3D1 > > = > > will help with the xine dependencies > = > Not needed and not recommended. livna depends on fedora.us and Fedora > Core, nothing else. Michael (and the rpm.livna.org maintainer), please see my brand-new HOWTO on this topic: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Fedora-Multimedia-Installation-HOWTO/index.html I found I had to add freshrpms in order to get apt. I needed apt in order to get jre RPMs from Dag Wieers's repository. = I would actually like to recommend livna only in my HOWTO, but there are things it lacks. If livna wants to be the one-stop shop for everything proprietary and patented that isn't in Fedora Core (which is where it seems to be heading, and I heartily approve), then it needs to carry the following: Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) mame and mame ROM RPMs RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============1013983159633082912==-- From julo at altern.org Sat Jan 31 10:04:34 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2728455504603615475==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Julien Olivier To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:05:30 +0000 Message-ID: <1075561530.4878.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040131145130.GB5507@thyrsus.com --===============2728455504603615475== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Michael (and the rpm.livna.org maintainer), please see my brand-new HOWTO > on this topic: > = > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Fedora-Multimedia-Installation-HOWTO/index.html > = > I found I had to add freshrpms in order to get apt. I needed apt in order > to get jre RPMs from Dag Wieers's repository. = > = > I would actually like to recommend livna only in my HOWTO, but there > are things it lacks. If livna wants to be the one-stop shop for > everything proprietary and patented that isn't in Fedora Core (which > is where it seems to be heading, and I heartily approve), then it > needs to carry the following: > = > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) > mame and mame ROM RPMs XMame is totally free and legal, isn't it ? Mame ROMS are illegal though, and not only in the US (this is not a software patent problem). > RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer How about Flash plugin and libdvdcss ? -- = Julien Olivier --===============2728455504603615475==-- From julo at altern.org Sat Jan 31 10:07:23 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4622908888528695819==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Julien Olivier To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:08:18 +0000 Message-ID: <1075561697.4878.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 1075561530.4878.4.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============4622908888528695819== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > How about Flash plugin and libdvdcss ? > = Oups, I've just noticed that libdvdcss is already in rpm.livna.org :) -- = Julien Olivier --===============4622908888528695819==-- From fs111 at web.de Sat Jan 31 10:23:31 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5870855250241133276==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?utf-8?q?Andr=C3=A9_Kelpe_=3Cfs111_at_web=2Ede=3E?= To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:24:14 +0100 Message-ID: <1075562654.1833.7.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: 20040131145130.GB5507@thyrsus.com --===============5870855250241133276== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Sa, den 31.01.2004 schrieb Eric S. Raymond um 15:51: > Michael (and the rpm.livna.org maintainer), please see my brand-new HOWTO > on this topic: > = > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Fedora-Multimedia-Installation-HOWTO/index.html Nice! > I found I had to add freshrpms in order to get apt. I needed apt in order > to get jre RPMs from Dag Wieers's repository. = Dag's Repo is yum enabled, just add = [dag] name=3DFedora Core 1 Dag Wieers' repository baseurl=3Dhttp://apt.sw.be/redhat/fc1/en/i386/dag to your yum.conf > I would actually like to recommend livna only in my HOWTO, but there > are things it lacks. If livna wants to be the one-stop shop for > everything proprietary and patented that isn't in Fedora Core (which > is where it seems to be heading, and I heartily approve), then it > needs to carry the following: > = > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) Maybe jpackage.org should be included in your list. > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer atrpms (yum and apt enabled) has one: http://atrpms.physik.fu-berlin.de/dist/common/w32codec/ To my mind you should add a link to planet ccrma which has al lot of multimedia (sound) stuff in an apt repo. http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ Andr=C3=A9 --===============5870855250241133276== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi40IChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUc4aWVZdXJzYThJbEVaTVJBcFJwQUowZXdqaEp3bEsxMDk2OGhmZU1z Y3Z3QjFPdzB3Q2dnN3FmCjM1SGxsVnVBVmN3NjdVNmV4clV0b1ZzPQo9dnBvWAotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============5870855250241133276==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 10:26:28 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5629913976145501788==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:25:47 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131152547.GC5507@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 1075561530.4878.4.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============5629913976145501788== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julien Olivier : > > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) > > mame and mame ROM RPMs > = > XMame is totally free and legal, isn't it ? Mame ROMS are illegal > though, and not only in the US (this is not a software patent problem). Fedora, and other repos, often won't carry xmame, apparently because of some sort of guilt by association. = > > RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) > > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer > = > How about Flash plugin and libdvdcss ? I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============5629913976145501788==-- From ms-nospam-0306 at arcor.de Sat Jan 31 10:40:51 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2013595047705121001==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Schwendt To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:41:50 +0100 Message-ID: <20040131164150.77c81a49.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de> In-Reply-To: 20040131145130.GB5507@thyrsus.com --===============2013595047705121001== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:51:31 -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Michael (and the rpm.livna.org maintainer), please see my brand-new HOWTO > on this topic: > = > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Fedora-Multimedia-Installation-HOWTO/index.html > = > I found I had to add freshrpms in order to get apt. No, no. You've got it wrong. Please read the main page of http://rpm.livna.org/ -- the repository depends on the fedora.us repository. You get apt there, and quite some apt-rpm development takes places there. > I would actually like to recommend livna only in my HOWTO, but there > are things it lacks. If livna wants to be the one-stop shop for > everything proprietary and patented that isn't in Fedora Core (which > is where it seems to be heading, and I heartily approve), then it > needs to carry the following: > = > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) > mame and mame ROM RPMs > RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer Yes. It's a problem of lack of human resources. --=20 --===============2013595047705121001== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.sig" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFGQUc4ekQwaU1WY3JpdkhGUVJBbkRPQUp3TVcrUXg0TU8rcTBrSktZQitO ZXBHYzA0M2FnQ2VJdC9GCjIwRWpOOXA4OXBrWVAxVHpBNTc2VHRFPQo9N2ptOQotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============2013595047705121001==-- From peter.backlund at home.se Sat Jan 31 10:46:35 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8677880966817194331==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Backlund To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:48:40 +0100 Message-ID: <401BCE58.9010602@home.se> In-Reply-To: 20040131145130.GB5507@thyrsus.com --===============8677880966817194331== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric S. Raymond wrote: [snip] > I would actually like to recommend livna only in my HOWTO, but there > are things it lacks. If livna wants to be the one-stop shop for > everything proprietary and patented that isn't in Fedora Core (which > is where it seems to be heading, and I heartily approve), then it > needs to carry the following: > = > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) > mame and mame ROM RPMs > RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer I believe the philosophy of livna is to only carry things that are = re-distributable, with regards to the author of the software. That = excludes RealPlayer, Acrobat Reader, Java, Win32 codec dlls etc. /Peter --===============8677880966817194331==-- From tdiehl at rogueind.com Sat Jan 31 10:49:48 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8926396971324685756==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tom Diehl To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:50:47 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 20040131145130.GB5507@thyrsus.com --===============8926396971324685756== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Copied to the rpm.livna.org maintainer. > = > Michael Schwendt : > > > [freshrpms] > > > name=3DFedora Linux $releasever - $basearch - freshrpms > > > baseurl=3Dhttp://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch= /freshrpms > > > gpgcheck=3D1 > > > = > > > will help with the xine dependencies > > = > > Not needed and not recommended. livna depends on fedora.us and Fedora > > Core, nothing else. > = > Michael (and the rpm.livna.org maintainer), please see my brand-new HOWTO > on this topic: > = > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Fedora-Multimedia-Installation-HOWTO/index.html > = > I found I had to add freshrpms in order to get apt. I needed apt in order > to get jre RPMs from Dag Wieers's repository. = FWIW Dags repo is yum enabled. Something like below will work. name=3DFedora Core $releasever - $basearch - dag baseurl=3Dhttp://apt.sw.be/redhat/fc$releasever/en/$basearch/dag Tom --===============8926396971324685756==-- From tdiehl at rogueind.com Sat Jan 31 10:52:36 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0519601207736798018==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tom Diehl To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:53:35 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 20040131152547.GC5507@thyrsus.com --===============0519601207736798018== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Julien Olivier : > > > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) > > > mame and mame ROM RPMs > > = > > XMame is totally free and legal, isn't it ? Mame ROMS are illegal > > though, and not only in the US (this is not a software patent problem). > = > Fedora, and other repos, often won't carry xmame, apparently because > of some sort of guilt by association. > = > > > RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) > > > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer > > = > > How about Flash plugin and libdvdcss ? > = > I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying > flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. The flash stuff is available @ = [macromedia] name=3DMacromedia flash baseurl=3Dhttp://macromedia.mplug.org/apt/fedora/1/ The rpms there "just work" Tom --===============0519601207736798018==-- From salimma1 at yahoo.co.uk Sat Jan 31 11:17:08 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1487521630544223893==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michel Alexandre Salim To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:18:05 +0700 Message-ID: <1075565884.6295.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 1075456683.20723.200.camel@dubya --===============1487521630544223893== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 09:58 +0000, Geoff Teale wrote: > A lot of people attribute some of the bad UI's in F/OSS to the lack of > resources for usability testing on non-commercial projects. This may be > true in part, but I see an equal lack of such testing if commercial > software through a lack of understanding rather than a lack of resource. > = Well, the non-F/OSS world invented those look-like-stereo interfaces (PowerDVD, WinDVD, WinAmp etc.) - the skinned F/OSS projects just copy them badly :) Though XMMS is an exception; the default skin is actually very usable. More than a lot of the fancy skins available online, though at least they look nice, unlike Xine's default skin.. *ducks* - Michel --===============1487521630544223893==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 11:18:08 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5883510726302563235==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:17:26 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131161726.GD5507@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 1075562654.1833.7.camel@localhost --===============5883510726302563235== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andr=C3=A9 Kelpe : > Dag's Repo is yum enabled, just add = > > [dag] > name=3DFedora Core 1 Dag Wieers' repository > baseurl=3Dhttp://apt.sw.be/redhat/fc1/en/i386/dag > = > to your yum.conf Excellent. That means I can remove apt recipes from my installation procedure. > Maybe jpackage.org should be included in your list. What is it? When I go there, I get: ERROR : Unable to connect to the database: DB Error: connect failed Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/jpackage/ww= w/func-db.inc on line 58 = > > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer > = > atrpms (yum and apt enabled) has one: > http://atrpms.physik.fu-berlin.de/dist/common/w32codec/ Can you give me a working yum.conf entry for this repo? If so, I'll include it in the HOWTO. It would be better if livna carried this RPM, though -- I'd like to cut the number of required repositories to a minimum to lessen the likelihood of conflicts. > To my mind you should add a link to planet ccrma which has al lot of > multimedia (sound) stuff in an apt repo. > = > http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ Will do. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============5883510726302563235== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.sig" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4yIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFGQUc5VVZyZlVXMDRRaDhSd1JBaHFNQUo0NVM3ZjZlZ2VzVVZPc1VCaDFX VzlKbmwrR3JnQ2ZZa3lsCnF1dWQyL01JQXk0ZkJMYVR5UVRTMkxzPQo9QUl3SgotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============5883510726302563235==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 11:20:12 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8625315628197264198==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:19:30 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131161930.GE5507@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.58.0401311051070.5120@tigger.rogueind.com --===============8625315628197264198== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom Diehl : > The flash stuff is available @ = > = > [macromedia] > name=3DMacromedia flash > baseurl=3Dhttp://macromedia.mplug.org/apt/fedora/1/ > = > The rpms there "just work" I know. That's in my HOWTO already. But I'd prefer to cut the number of repositories I reference to a minimum. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============8625315628197264198==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 11:23:11 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8573575416644316840==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:22:28 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131162228.GF5507@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 401BCE58.9010602@home.se --===============8573575416644316840== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Backlund : > I believe the philosophy of livna is to only carry things that are = > re-distributable, with regards to the author of the software. That = > excludes RealPlayer, Acrobat Reader, Java, Win32 codec dlls etc. These are all redistributable in some form or other. Some have technical restrictions on repackaging, but that's not quite the same thing as being locked up entirely. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============8573575416644316840==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 11:29:02 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5323126171996480344==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:28:20 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131162820.GG5507@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 20040131164150.77c81a49.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============5323126171996480344== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Schwendt : > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:51:31 -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > = > > Michael (and the rpm.livna.org maintainer), please see my brand-new HOW= TO > > on this topic: > > = > > http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Fedora-Multimedia-Installation-HOWTO/index.html > > = > > I found I had to add freshrpms in order to get apt. > = > No, no. You've got it wrong. Please read the main page of > http://rpm.livna.org/ -- the repository depends on the fedora.us > repository. You get apt there, and quite some apt-rpm development > takes places there. Ahh, I see what happened. I originally had only the Fedora Core repository in my configuration, not realizing that fedora.us has stuff like apt in it that core doesn't. OK, fixed. = > > I would actually like to recommend livna only in my HOWTO, but there > > are things it lacks. If livna wants to be the one-stop shop for > > everything proprietary and patented that isn't in Fedora Core (which > > is where it seems to be heading, and I heartily approve), then it > > needs to carry the following: > > = > > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) > > mame and mame ROM RPMs > > RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) > > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer > = > Yes. It's a problem of lack of human resources. Can I help? If it's just a problem of rounding up RPMs and dropping them in the repository, I can do that. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============5323126171996480344== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.sig" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4yIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFGQUc5ZWdyZlVXMDRRaDhSd1JBbkwvQUtER0FoNzNEd3N0aHpGZ0tuSXlH TEFHbGpIT2hRQ2VJV1grCjFRTHZZZUdDazQ3VE5BT214REFwbWxzPQo9dzNobgotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============5323126171996480344==-- From ms-nospam-0306 at arcor.de Sat Jan 31 11:32:49 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4167033723190174168==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Schwendt To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:33:52 +0100 Message-ID: <20040131173352.7f7d49f1.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de> In-Reply-To: 20040131161726.GD5507@thyrsus.com --===============4167033723190174168== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:17:26 -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > Maybe jpackage.org should be included in your list. > = > What is it? When I go there, I get: > = > ERROR : Unable to connect to the database: DB Error: connect failed > Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/jpackage/= www/func-db.inc on line 58 I would describe www.jpackage.org as *the* Java RPM packages resource. = > -- I'd like to cut the number of required repositories > to a minimum to lessen the likelihood of conflicts. But for rpm.livna.org the fedora.us repository is a strict dependence, because packages at livna.org are built upon packages from fedora.us (and Fedora Core). Resolving the dependencies with packages from other repositories may work, but is untested and unsupported. = Mixing repositories in an unsupported way can create unresolvable dependencies. A HOWTO should not recommend something like that. -- = --===============4167033723190174168==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 11:45:54 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6301656262591608457==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:45:12 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131164512.GJ5507@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 20040131173352.7f7d49f1.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============6301656262591608457== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Schwendt : > I would describe www.jpackage.org as *the* Java RPM packages resource. Maybe, but it's still broken. = > Mixing repositories in an unsupported way can create unresolvable > dependencies. A HOWTO should not recommend something like that. I do warn about this. But there are at least two things that need ro happen before I can stop recommending it. 1. livna.org has to complete its inventory, as discussed earlier. 2. Fedora has to get its act together about RPM subnissions from upstream developers. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============6301656262591608457==-- From fs111 at web.de Sat Jan 31 11:46:43 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7629011002080072135==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: =?utf-8?q?Andr=C3=A9_Kelpe_=3Cfs111_at_web=2Ede=3E?= To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:47:28 +0100 Message-ID: <1075567648.1833.19.camel@localhost> In-Reply-To: 20040131161726.GD5507@thyrsus.com --===============7629011002080072135== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Sa, den 31.01.2004 schrieb Eric S. Raymond um 17:17: > > Maybe jpackage.org should be included in your list. > = > What is it? When I go there, I get: > = > ERROR : Unable to connect to the database: DB Error: connect failed > Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/jpackage/= www/func-db.inc on line 58 Jpackage is a big yum/apt/urpmi repo with java-centered packages. The page seems to be broken, to see what it provides look at google's cache: http://www.google.de/search?q=3Dcache:to2VHEBZ0Z0J:www.jpackage.org/+jpacka= ge&hl=3Dde&ie=3DUTF-8 > > > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer > > = > > atrpms (yum and apt enabled) has one: > > http://atrpms.physik.fu-berlin.de/dist/common/w32codec/ > = > Can you give me a working yum.conf entry for this repo? If so, I'll > include it in the HOWTO. This is the repo of Axel Thimm. It would be better to ask him for the correct yum entry to get the "common"-packages working. I'm always using apt, so I'm not very familiar with yum.conf. > It would be better if livna carried this > RPM, though -- I'd like to cut the number of required repositories > to a minimum to lessen the likelihood of conflicts. This is a good goal, but at the moment you can't get a full multimedia-fedora without using a lot of repos... > = > > To my mind you should add a link to planet ccrma which has al lot of > > multimedia (sound) stuff in an apt repo. > > = > > http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ > = > Will do. Looks like ccrma is apt-only so you have to use apt or ignore ccrma in your howto. Andr=C3=A9 --===============7629011002080072135== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi40IChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUc5d2dZdXJzYThJbEVaTVJBbEZIQUo5eDBTQmpEZzNJYzBrQmNKSVJO Mkc2TXNFS29nQ2ZmT2VDCjlUS2xEaDlzdE5WaURoRW1ZYStvZzFjPQo9dGM4ZwotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============7629011002080072135==-- From ms-nospam-0306 at arcor.de Sat Jan 31 11:58:10 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8131984480456522611==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Schwendt To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:58:54 +0100 Message-ID: <20040131175854.4561262b.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de> In-Reply-To: 20040131162820.GG5507@thyrsus.com --===============8131984480456522611== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:28:20 -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: [rpm.livna.org] > > > I would actually like to recommend livna only in my HOWTO, but there > > > are things it lacks. If livna wants to be the one-stop shop for > > > everything proprietary and patented that isn't in Fedora Core (which > > > is where it seems to be heading, and I heartily approve), then it > > > needs to carry the following: > > > = > > > Java jre RPMs (see Dag Wieers's repostory) > > > mame and mame ROM RPMs > > > RealPlayer RPMs (see http://cambuca.ldhs.cetuc.puc-rio.br/xine/) > > > Win32 binary-codec RPMs to be used with mplayer > > = > > Yes. It's a problem of lack of human resources. > = > Can I help? If it's just a problem of rounding up RPMs and dropping them > in the repository, I can do that. ... unless the manual package submission and building procedure puts you off. ;-) Whether there're ways for you to contribute packages via other ways than the "fedora.us-like bugzilla package request procedure" at bugzilla.livna.org, you'd better talk to Basically, the repository is an open community project like fedora.us, using the same guidelines and policies, probably adjusted slightly for productivity and a "just-works" philosophy. -- = --===============8131984480456522611==-- From anvil at livna.org Sat Jan 31 12:05:35 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3202999929420111354==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dams To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:06:41 +0100 Message-ID: <1075568801.12687.1171.camel@gruyere> In-Reply-To: 20040131162228.GF5507@thyrsus.com --===============3202999929420111354== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are you sure ? Because i keep reading acroread license [1] and still doesnt see where it says "you have the right to distribute". Same for realplayer license and java things.. And i unfortunately never saw licenses of win32 dlls needed by mplayer/xine/videolan. (ok, i never looked for them). Please open my eyes. D [1] http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/acrreula.html Le sam 31/01/2004 =C3=A0 17:22, Eric S. Raymond a =C3=A9crit : > Peter Backlund : > > I believe the philosophy of livna is to only carry things that are = > > re-distributable, with regards to the author of the software. That = > > excludes RealPlayer, Acrobat Reader, Java, Win32 codec dlls etc. > These are all redistributable in some form or other. Some have technical > restrictions on repackaging, but that's not quite the same thing as > being locked up entirely. -- = Dams Nad=C3=A9 Anvil/Anvilou on irc.freenode.net : #Linux-Fr, #Fedora I am looking for a job : http://livna.org/~anvil/cv.php "Dona Nobis Pacem E Dona Eis Requiem". Noir. --===============3202999929420111354== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUcrQ2hXLytKQW80bmtDRVJBbnNZQUo0N3dHSERXMzBRWUFETnRlMEQx MU92RkVLdEV3Q2VQQzROCnNQLzgzWU81MEpqcmYzV3kvUnFwTEx3PQo9eXhzUAotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============3202999929420111354==-- From peter.backlund at home.se Sat Jan 31 15:49:36 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2347754288581998213==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Backlund To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 21:51:41 +0100 Message-ID: <401C155D.3050101@home.se> In-Reply-To: 20040131162228.GF5507@thyrsus.com --===============2347754288581998213== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Peter Backlund : > = >>I believe the philosophy of livna is to only carry things that are = >>re-distributable, with regards to the author of the software. That = >>excludes RealPlayer, Acrobat Reader, Java, Win32 codec dlls etc. > = > = > These are all redistributable in some form or other. Some have technical > restrictions on repackaging, but that's not quite the same thing as > being locked up entirely. If this is correct, it is certainly good news. However, I based my claim = on the following: 1. I actually emailed Adobe on behalf of the Fedora Project, asking for = permission to repackage and redistribute Acrobat Reader. They declined. 2. I also contacted Real, but they never answered (at least not yet, 4 = months later. I'm not holding my breath). They also make you fill in a = form when downloading the player, so it seems unlikely that they would = be OK with redistribution. The form: http://forms.real.com/real/player/unix/unix.html The Helix project looks promising, and my impressions from skimming the = FAQ is that it will eventually be possible to redistribute a version of = the player without RealAudio/RealVideo. Release Notes for Milestone 2 (look under Licensing) https://player.helixcommunity.org/2004/draft/MS2ReleaseNotes.html It would be nice if the Fedora community could supply a "helixplayer" = package (without RA/RV support), and work with Real to make them supply = an add-on rpm with RA/RV support (same way as xmms/xmms-mp3 works now). 3. The JPackage project do not supply binaries of Sun's JDK/JRE (or any = other JRE for that matter), but only src.rpm version, where you download = the JDK/JRE and rebuild the binary rpm yourself. I simply assume that = they have looked into the distribution situation quite carefully. 4. About the codecs, I find it _very_ hard to believe that Microsoft for = one would be OK with redistributing Windows Media binary dlls? That said, if you know for sure that any of these are in fact = redistributable, we should absolutley do that. /Peter --===============2347754288581998213==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sat Jan 31 16:26:30 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1451089785160793951==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:25:45 -0500 Message-ID: <20040131212544.GB10087@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 401C155D.3050101@home.se --===============1451089785160793951== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter Backlund : > Eric S. Raymond wrote: > >Peter Backlund : > > > >>I believe the philosophy of livna is to only carry things that are = > >>re-distributable, with regards to the author of the software. That = > >>excludes RealPlayer, Acrobat Reader, Java, Win32 codec dlls etc. > > > > > >These are all redistributable in some form or other. Some have technical > >restrictions on repackaging, but that's not quite the same thing as > >being locked up entirely. > = > If this is correct, it is certainly good news. However, I based my claim = > on the following: > = > 1. I actually emailed Adobe on behalf of the Fedora Project, asking for = > permission to repackage and redistribute Acrobat Reader. They declined. > > 2. I also contacted Real, but they never answered (at least not yet, 4 = > months later. I'm not holding my breath). They also make you fill in a = > form when downloading the player, so it seems unlikely that they would = > be OK with redistribution. These are what I called technical restrictions on redistribution. If livna.org is willing to run afoul of patents and the DMCA to distribute libdvdcss, it's hard to believe they'd balk at violating these. But I'll a= sk. > 3. The JPackage project do not supply binaries of Sun's JDK/JRE (or any = > other JRE for that matter), but only src.rpm version, where you download = > the JDK/JRE and rebuild the binary rpm yourself. I simply assume that = > they have looked into the distribution situation quite carefully. If yum can install SRPMS this doesn't seem like a problem. > 4. About the codecs, I find it _very_ hard to believe that Microsoft for = > one would be OK with redistributing Windows Media binary dlls? Do the terms on their site say you can't pass around copies of the zipfile? I don't think so... -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============1451089785160793951==-- From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sat Jan 31 17:14:12 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8279174016781087657==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Nicolas Mailhot To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:14:27 +0100 Message-ID: <1075587266.10718.10.camel@m222.net81-64-248.noos.fr> In-Reply-To: 20040131173352.7f7d49f1.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============8279174016781087657== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le sam, 31/01/2004 =C3=A0 17:33 +0100, Michael Schwendt a =C3=A9crit : > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:17:26 -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > = > > > Maybe jpackage.org should be included in your list. > > = > > What is it? When I go there, I get: > > = > > ERROR : Unable to connect to the database: DB Error: connect failed > > Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/jpackag= e/www/func-db.inc on line 58 > = > I would describe www.jpackage.org as *the* Java RPM packages resource. I'm afraid the core jpackage host has been badly hit by the latest winworm storm (plf is probably affected too since they use the same system). The mail system is on overload, fills / and bang. The package mirrors are still there though : ftp://jpackage.hmdc.harvard.edu/JPackage/ ftp://us.dl.sf.net/pub/sourceforge/jpackage/direct_download/ ftp://ftp.pbone.net/pub/jpackage ... Since direct downloads have never been allowed, right now the only loss of service is the web site and the mailing lists, so it's not critical. If any people there have good postfix recipes to get rid of this infestation I'm sure the jpp/plf system admins will love to hear them. (Guillaume Rousse is a good contact) Regards, -- = Nicolas Mailhot --===============8279174016781087657== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUhDakJJMmJWS0RzcDhnMFJBblRNQUtEaTBLQzRjWVkrOHAwRlV1c1V5 V3ZGTitUNVNBQ2d1UUlWCjFLZ2w3Y01DcVJWUkllR2cxUHNFUlVzPQo9VS9QSQotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============8279174016781087657==-- From Nicolas.Mailhot at laPoste.net Sat Jan 31 17:26:17 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8725208573335717116==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Nicolas Mailhot To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 23:26:59 +0100 Message-ID: <1075588019.10718.20.camel@m222.net81-64-248.noos.fr> In-Reply-To: 20040131212544.GB10087@thyrsus.com --===============8725208573335717116== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le sam, 31/01/2004 =C3=A0 16:25 -0500, Eric S. Raymond a =C3=A9crit : > Peter Backlund : > > 3. The JPackage project do not supply binaries of Sun's JDK/JRE (or any = > > other JRE for that matter), but only src.rpm version, where you downloa= d = > > the JDK/JRE and rebuild the binary rpm yourself. I simply assume that = > > they have looked into the distribution situation quite carefully. > = > If yum can install SRPMS this doesn't seem like a problem. Actually, it's worse than that. For all the stuff we're not sure of (cryptography, form-to-download, etc) we are distributing .nosrc.rpms. These are basically wrappers that can be used to convert an archive of binary files into a proper package. To get a working rpm people have to download the restricted binary on the original site, put in their SOURCES dir and do a rpm --rebuild of the nosrc. We've repeatedly asked for permissions to redistribute stuff, even proposed to have our packages hosted on the vendor sites behind their click-through forms, but so far no one dared to accept this. Since no one in the team feels like spending time in the courtroom (devoting our free time to the project is far enough) we're playing it sure. However the bulk of the repo is free oss stuff (jakarta, jboss, objectweb, etc). But to use this one has to re-wrap a few critical pieces like the jvm. Most of this will probably gcjed mid-term if there is no resolution on the jvm legal front. gcj is slowly getting there. Cheers, -- = Nicolas Mailhot --===============8725208573335717116== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUhDdXlJMmJWS0RzcDhnMFJBajZVQUtEcWViVXdkNUp0aTZVemtRRHNt bVd0SlJOeEZ3Q2dtT3JRCjgzU01vMWtZMnhUTW9ubzM4d003ZUI4PQo9ZW80WgotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============8725208573335717116==-- From warren at togami.com Sat Jan 31 21:59:23 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8061866661973019547==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warren Togami To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:00:17 -1000 Message-ID: <401C6BC1.8040600@togami.com> In-Reply-To: 20040131152547.GC5507@thyrsus.com --===============8061866661973019547== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric S. Raymond wrote: > = > I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying > flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. Redistribution of flash-plugin is completely illegal under Macromedia's = EULA, and also and unneeded since Macromedia has given me special = permission to maintain RPM packages and apt/yum/urpmi repositories for = the plugin. http://macromedia.mplug.org Warren Togami warren(a)togami.com --===============8061866661973019547==-- From icon at linux.duke.edu Sat Jan 31 22:22:06 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2803845955626683989==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Konstantin Ryabitsev To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:23:04 -0500 Message-ID: <401C7118.50306@linux.duke.edu> In-Reply-To: 20040131212544.GB10087@thyrsus.com --===============2803845955626683989== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 31.01.2004 16:25, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > If livna.org is willing to run afoul of patents and the DMCA to > distribute libdvdcss, it's hard to believe they'd balk at > violating these. But I'll ask. I think we need to distinguish between ignoring US laws and patents = outside of the US, and violating international copyrights. Livna may = distribute libdvdcss and US-patent-infringing software because they = are outside the jurisdiction of the US, and DMCA/patents don't have = any power over them (at least at the moment). The "infringing" = software is still Free in terms of license: there is an explicit = permission to distribute it where legal. However, distributing proprietary packages without having a license = to distribute them would be a violation of international copyrights, = which is a criminal offense in most of the civilized world. As long = as livna.org remains outside the US, they are legal in their = locality because all of their software is free. If they start = distributing unlicensed stuff, they would quickly lose their legal = status, be shut down, fined, and likely thrown in jail, because that = would be no different than running a warez site. So, I wouldn't suggest putting pressure on them to distribute = proprietary packages without the permission of copyright owners. Regards, -- = Konstantin ("Icon") Riabitsev Duke Physics Systems Admin, RHCE I am looking for a job in Canada! http://linux.duke.edu/~icon/cajob.ptml --===============2803845955626683989==-- From ms-nospam-0306 at arcor.de Sun Feb 1 07:52:50 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7115403180464363808==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Schwendt To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:53:53 +0100 Message-ID: <20040201135353.2b243d48.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de> In-Reply-To: 401C6BC1.8040600@togami.com --===============7115403180464363808== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:00:17 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > = > > I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying > > flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. > = > Redistribution of flash-plugin is completely illegal under Macromedia's = > EULA, and also and unneeded since Macromedia has given me special = > permission to maintain RPM packages and apt/yum/urpmi repositories for = > the plugin. > = > http://macromedia.mplug.org It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within a repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an increasing list of repositories for individual packages. -- = --===============7115403180464363808==-- From julo at altern.org Sun Feb 1 07:59:40 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8500057625750608810==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Julien Olivier To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:00:39 +0000 Message-ID: <1075640439.11711.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040201135353.2b243d48.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============8500057625750608810== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within a > repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an > increasing list of repositories for individual packages. Maybe something even better: isn't it possible for a repository to automatically include another repository. For example, it would be great if one repository could "depend" on more repositories (rpm.livna.org, macromedia.mplug.org, jpackage.org etc...) so that end-users would only have to add 1 line in there yum.conf and still get packages from many repositories. It would be a kind of meta-repository. Is it already do-able in apt/yum or should I file a request for enhancement ? -- = Julien Olivier --===============8500057625750608810==-- From hvdkooij at vanderkooij.org Sun Feb 1 08:38:47 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7739470195200914860==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Hugo van der Kooij To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:39:44 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 1075640439.11711.5.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============7739470195200914860== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Julien Olivier wrote: > > It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within= a > > repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an > > increasing list of repositories for individual packages. > > Maybe something even better: isn't it possible for a repository to > automatically include another repository. For example, it would be great > if one repository could "depend" on more repositories (rpm.livna.org, > macromedia.mplug.org, jpackage.org etc...) so that end-users would only > have to add 1 line in there yum.conf and still get packages from many > repositories. It would be a kind of meta-repository. Preferably with a an option to do this on a package by package basis. Hugo. -- = All email sent to me is bound to the rules described on my homepage. hvdkooij(a)vanderkooij.org http://hvdkooij.xs4all.nl/ Don't meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger. --===============7739470195200914860==-- From arvindn at meenakshi.cs.iitm.ernet.in Sun Feb 1 08:48:40 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4780810703501937785==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Arvind Narayanan To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:55:21 +0530 Message-ID: <20040201185521.A14991@meenakshi.cs.iitm.ernet.in> In-Reply-To: 401C7118.50306@linux.duke.edu --===============4780810703501937785== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 10:23:04PM -0500, Konstantin Riabitsev wrote: [snip] = > However, distributing proprietary packages without having a license = > to distribute them would be a violation of international copyrights, = > which is a criminal offense in most of the civilized world. As long = ^^^^^^^^^ Is the implication intentional? Just curious. Arvind -- Its all GNU to me --===============4780810703501937785==-- From alan at redhat.com Sun Feb 1 10:07:00 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3310153757213392360==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Alan Cox To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:07:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20040201150736.GC30540@devserv.devel.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: 1075546815.8421.2.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============3310153757213392360== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 12:00:16PM +0100, Tony Grant wrote: > > xine has a variant that already does. Just needs the reverse engineered > > libddmpeg work and my surfaces rewrite for via and some oddments to > > make it work open source > = > You mean ViacripplEdXinePlayer a.k.a VeXP=3D:-p > = > Been there, tried that. When it doesn't crash and burn and when it > allows DVB-S playback I'll look again. Well its up to someone like you who cares to port the fixes into a current Xine. --===============3310153757213392360==-- From alan at redhat.com Sun Feb 1 10:24:46 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3559186282307725352==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Alan Cox To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:25:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20040201152521.GF30540@devserv.devel.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: 20040131212544.GB10087@thyrsus.com --===============3559186282307725352== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 04:25:45PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > These are what I called technical restrictions on redistribution. If > livna.org is willing to run afoul of patents and the DMCA to distribute > libdvdcss, it's hard to believe they'd balk at violating these. But I'll= ask. DMCA is a US disease as are most of the patents. Ignoring stupid US regulat= ion outside the USA is *NOT* the same kind of thing as violating contracts or copyrights. > > 4. About the codecs, I find it _very_ hard to believe that Microsoft fo= r = > > one would be OK with redistributing Windows Media binary dlls? > = > Do the terms on their site say you can't pass around copies of the > zipfile? I don't think so... Do they say you can ? You need permission for the act of copying when you duplicate the copy. You may be able to download 50,000 copies from microsoft.com and give them to 50000 people but thats different --===============3559186282307725352==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sun Feb 1 10:52:38 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6072344410791785179==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:51:42 -0500 Message-ID: <20040201155142.GC9717@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 20040201135353.2b243d48.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============6072344410791785179== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Schwendt : > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:00:17 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > = > > Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > = > > > I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying > > > flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. > > = > > Redistribution of flash-plugin is completely illegal under Macromedia's = > > EULA, and also and unneeded since Macromedia has given me special = > > permission to maintain RPM packages and apt/yum/urpmi repositories for = > > the plugin. > > = > > http://macromedia.mplug.org > = > It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within a > repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an > increasing list of repositories for individual packages. Indeed. Warren, can you move thiose RPMs into livna or Fedora? -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============6072344410791785179==-- From alan at redhat.com Sun Feb 1 10:55:21 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6826457072408822238==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Alan Cox To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:55:56 -0500 Message-ID: <20040201155556.GA13995@devserv.devel.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: 20040201155142.GC9717@thyrsus.com --===============6826457072408822238== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 10:51:42AM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within= a > > repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an > > increasing list of repositories for individual packages. > = > Indeed. Warren, can you move thiose RPMs into livna or Fedora? It is better IMHO to keep proprietary software seperate. --===============6826457072408822238==-- From ms-nospam-0306 at arcor.de Sun Feb 1 11:27:26 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4542379575701994270==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael Schwendt To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:28:29 +0100 Message-ID: <20040201172829.61664532.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de> In-Reply-To: 20040201155556.GA13995@devserv.devel.redhat.com --===============4542379575701994270== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:55:56 -0500, Alan Cox wrote: > On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 10:51:42AM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > > > It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included with= in a > > > repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an > > > increasing list of repositories for individual packages. > > = > > Indeed. Warren, can you move thiose RPMs into livna or Fedora? > = > It is better IMHO to keep proprietary software seperate. Which is the reason why fedora.us doesn't contain such software. rpm.livna.org, however, is a place which contains some proprietary software, too, and not just software with patenting or licencing concerns. -- = --===============4542379575701994270==-- From ByteEnable at austin.rr.com Sun Feb 1 11:39:07 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6877650012474700614==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: ByteEnable To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: kernel 2.6.1-1.65 and VIA Apollo Pro266T AGP Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:40:05 -0600 Message-ID: <1075653605.3083.5.camel@ByteEnable> In-Reply-To: 20040201172829.61664532.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============6877650012474700614== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I get random ascii characters on the screen and the system freezes when using the newest NVIDIA driver (5536) and kernel 2.6.1-1.65. The error happens when X tries to load. I checked kernel.org and did not see any bugs in bugzilla. However, I did find this: http://minion.de/ "Linux 2.6 AGPGART seems to be broken on some chipsets. If you find that your system hangs upon starting X, potentially with ASCII garbage all over the screen, try the built-in NVIDIA AGP GART driver (Option "NvAgp" "1", AGPGART not loaded) instead." Has anyone else see this problem? Byte --===============6877650012474700614==-- From pmatilai at welho.com Sun Feb 1 13:09:33 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8125863431665305171==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Panu Matilainen To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:10:26 +0200 Message-ID: <1075659026.28936.2.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> In-Reply-To: 1075640439.11711.5.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============8125863431665305171== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 15:00, Julien Olivier wrote: > > It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within= a > > repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an > > increasing list of repositories for individual packages. > = > Maybe something even better: isn't it possible for a repository to > automatically include another repository. For example, it would be great > if one repository could "depend" on more repositories (rpm.livna.org, > macromedia.mplug.org, jpackage.org etc...) so that end-users would only > have to add 1 line in there yum.conf and still get packages from many > repositories. It would be a kind of meta-repository. > = > Is it already do-able in apt/yum or should I file a request for > enhancement ? Apt supports "meta-repositories" but only within a single server so it's not really what you're asking for. Something like this could be done in the mirror-selector (in fedora.us apt) but more generally support for this could be included in the common repository metadata system. - Panu - --===============8125863431665305171==-- From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Feb 1 14:37:58 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6823511558632400423==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: seth vidal To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 14:39:00 -0500 Message-ID: <1075664339.24061.6.camel@binkley> In-Reply-To: 1075659026.28936.2.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org --===============6823511558632400423== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Apt supports "meta-repositories" but only within a single server so it's > not really what you're asking for. Something like this could be done in > the mirror-selector (in fedora.us apt) but more generally support for > this could be included in the common repository metadata system. Maybe we should start taking some of the things I've heard and compiling ideas for a ver 2. of the metadata stuff? things I've heard so far: - common format for repository information = - meta-repositories (or repository groups) - common group format -sv --===============6823511558632400423==-- From pmatilai at welho.com Sun Feb 1 15:03:22 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1783413303241573876==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Panu Matilainen To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:04:16 +0200 Message-ID: <1075665856.28936.14.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> In-Reply-To: 1075664339.24061.6.camel@binkley --===============1783413303241573876== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 21:39, seth vidal wrote: > > Apt supports "meta-repositories" but only within a single server so it's > > not really what you're asking for. Something like this could be done in > > the mirror-selector (in fedora.us apt) but more generally support for > > this could be included in the common repository metadata system. > = > Maybe we should start taking some of the things I've heard and compiling > ideas for a ver 2. of the metadata stuff? Sure. If the items aren't collected as they come up they get forgotten and we need to reinvite them sometime later :) > = > things I've heard so far: > - common format for repository information I suppose this covers things like mirror information? If not that should be added separately. > = > - meta-repositories (or repository groups) > - common group format Yep.. hmm.. I think I had some other ideas as well but can't remember now/anymore :-/ - Panu - --===============1783413303241573876==-- From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Sun Feb 1 15:14:35 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2147356030319888692==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: seth vidal To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:15:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1075666535.24061.15.camel@binkley> In-Reply-To: 1075665856.28936.14.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org --===============2147356030319888692== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I suppose this covers things like mirror information? If not that should > be added separately. > = > > = > > - meta-repositories (or repository groups) a thought here - what about having repository-wide-provides and repository-wide-dependencies? It'd be interesting to have: rpm.livna.org depends on fedora-core, fedora-extras would be hard to control, but potentially interesting. -sv --===============2147356030319888692==-- From warren at togami.com Sun Feb 1 15:20:32 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1908099601021724229==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warren Togami To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:21:34 -1000 Message-ID: <401D5FCE.4080605@togami.com> In-Reply-To: 20040201135353.2b243d48.ms-nospam-0306@arcor.de --===============1908099601021724229== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael Schwendt wrote: > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:00:17 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: > = > = >>Eric S. Raymond wrote: >> >>>I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying >>>flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. >> >>Redistribution of flash-plugin is completely illegal under Macromedia's = >>EULA, and also and unneeded since Macromedia has given me special = >>permission to maintain RPM packages and apt/yum/urpmi repositories for = >>the plugin. >> >>http://macromedia.mplug.org > = > = > It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within a > repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an > increasing list of repositories for individual packages. > = Their lawyers wouldn't like this... it took me 3 months of harassing the = company in order for them to agree to even this much. Warren --===============1908099601021724229==-- From warren at togami.com Sun Feb 1 15:23:14 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3125677246735147521==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warren Togami To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:24:16 -1000 Message-ID: <401D6070.6050605@togami.com> In-Reply-To: 20040201155142.GC9717@thyrsus.com --===============3125677246735147521== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Michael Schwendt : > = >>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:00:17 -1000, Warren Togami wrote: >> >> >>>Eric S. Raymond wrote: >>> >>>>I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying >>>>flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. >>> >>>Redistribution of flash-plugin is completely illegal under Macromedia's = >>>EULA, and also and unneeded since Macromedia has given me special = >>>permission to maintain RPM packages and apt/yum/urpmi repositories for = >>>the plugin. >>> >>>http://macromedia.mplug.org >> >>It would be *much* better if the same packages could be included within a >>repository like rpm.livna.org, so the user doesn't need to maintain an >>increasing list of repositories for individual packages. > = > = > Indeed. Warren, can you move thiose RPMs into livna or Fedora? I absolutely cannot and will not, due to legal reasons. Warren --===============3125677246735147521==-- From anvil at livna.org Sun Feb 1 15:50:09 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5411855794093589817==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dams To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:51:22 +0100 Message-ID: <1075668682.12687.4509.camel@gruyere> In-Reply-To: 20040131212544.GB10087@thyrsus.com --===============5411855794093589817== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DMCA doesnt apply here. Neither software patents does (so far). So we just get rid of those two "details". rpm.livna.org is not, i repeat, is NOT a warez site : we wont provide any mame rom, win32 non distributable dll, or Britney Spears mp3^WOgg Vorbis as rpm as long as they are _copyrighted_. = And if you're just wondering, "here" is France. D Le sam 31/01/2004 =C3=A0 22:25, Eric S. Raymond a =C3=A9crit : > These are what I called technical restrictions on redistribution. If > livna.org is willing to run afoul of patents and the DMCA to distribute > libdvdcss, it's hard to believe they'd balk at violating these. But I'll= ask. -- = Dams Nad=C3=A9 Anvil/Anvilou on irc.freenode.net : #Linux-Fr, #Fedora I am looking for a job : http://livna.org/~anvil/cv.php "Dona Nobis Pacem E Dona Eis Requiem". Noir. --===============5411855794093589817== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUhXYktXLytKQW80bmtDRVJBbDV2QUtDQ041MU1CUllzaUdEek5SVlNt SjBkUENkM2R3Q2RHTXhJCmYrK1JlVStpNERsQXlGaGdMY21CVXAwPQo9TU9uTAotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============5411855794093589817==-- From esr at thyrsus.com Sun Feb 1 17:12:38 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5241617570174424423==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric S. Raymond To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Package redirects as a solution Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:11:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20040201221138.GA12452@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: 1075668682.12687.4509.camel@gruyere --===============5241617570174424423== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dams : > DMCA doesnt apply here. Neither software patents does (so far). So we > just get rid of those two "details". rpm.livna.org is not, i repeat, is > NOT a warez site : we wont provide any mame rom, win32 non distributable > dll, or Britney Spears mp3^WOgg Vorbis as rpm as long as they are > _copyrighted_. = Fine, I think nobody wants you to commit acts that would be substantively piracy. I though the tar archives of dlls were redistributable but = apparently I'm wrong. I agree with the earlier suggestion that package-level redirects would be a good solution for some of this sort of thing. So, for example, the Fedora yum repository could carry a redirect that would send queries for flash-plugin to the macromedia site. -- = Eric S. Raymond --===============5241617570174424423== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.sig" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4yIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFGQUhYbVpyZlVXMDRRaDhSd1JBbmFOQUtDVnM1U2p2MmJNZzJpNGVQQ2lh ZzJMRXFtcGZnQ2ZSa1NhClUxOW1XejVJeWNxQndLN05lemV4TEI4PQo9MUhJbQotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============5241617570174424423==-- From ByteEnable at austin.rr.com Sun Feb 1 17:51:52 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8043515041649339548==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: ByteEnable To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: kernel 2.6.1-1.65 and VIA Apollo Pro266T AGP Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:52:44 -0600 Message-ID: <1075675963.3046.9.camel@ByteEnable> In-Reply-To: 1075653605.3083.5.camel@ByteEnable --===============8043515041649339548== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay, I've gotten further now. By comparing the .99 driver to the 1.0, I found that in the .99 driver there was a specific via_mask_memory function. In the 1.0 driver this was moved to agp_generic_mask_memory(). I changed the function to behave the way the old driver did by always: return addr | agp_bridge->driver->masks[0].mask; . This actually allows XFree to load and the log states that AGP 4X is initialized. However, GDM now states that it cannot start the XServer and I get some printk's, then GDM asks if I want to configure the XServer, blah, blah. Its better than a hang. Any got any idea's? Byte On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 10:40, ByteEnable wrote: > Hi All, > = > I get random ascii characters on the screen and the system freezes when > using the newest NVIDIA driver (5536) and kernel 2.6.1-1.65. The error > happens when X tries to load. I checked kernel.org and did not see any > bugs in bugzilla. However, I did find this: > = > http://minion.de/ > = > "Linux 2.6 AGPGART seems to be broken on some chipsets. If you find that > your system hangs upon starting X, potentially with ASCII garbage all > over the screen, try the built-in NVIDIA AGP GART driver (Option "NvAgp" > "1", AGPGART not loaded) instead." > = > Has anyone else see this problem? > = > Byte > = --===============8043515041649339548==-- From salimma at fastmail.fm Sun Feb 1 22:21:39 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2825236270033077989==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michel Alexandre Salim To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Package redirects as a solution Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:22:35 +0700 Message-ID: <1075692155.3038.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040201221138.GA12452@thyrsus.com --===============2825236270033077989== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 17:11 -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: [snip] > I agree with the earlier suggestion that package-level redirects would > be a good solution for some of this sort of thing. So, for example, > the Fedora yum repository could carry a redirect that would send > queries for flash-plugin to the macromedia site. Is it absolutely certain that that is permissible? IMHO this is analogous to displaying a copyrighted image on your website that is streamed off someone else's website. You would be claiming to host the file while actually leeching someone's bandwith. - Michel --===============2825236270033077989== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUhjSjZ0R214M3JXS2cxY1JBcEg2QUowYndXTEFnaVk1VFdjMTN6U2Rw dTM0RG1UK2dBQ2ZWU0xtCjU0cy9kZjNXa1NpL1NDKzZxbWRzbDBNPQo9MXg2aQotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============2825236270033077989==-- From warren at togami.com Sun Feb 1 22:27:31 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8367594178417833094==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Warren Togami To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: Package redirects as a solution Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:28:32 -1000 Message-ID: <401DC3E0.9030304@togami.com> In-Reply-To: 1075692155.3038.2.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============8367594178417833094== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michel Alexandre Salim wrote: > On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 17:11 -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > [snip] > = >>I agree with the earlier suggestion that package-level redirects would >>be a good solution for some of this sort of thing. So, for example, >>the Fedora yum repository could carry a redirect that would send >>queries for flash-plugin to the macromedia site. > = > = > Is it absolutely certain that that is permissible? IMHO this is > analogous to displaying a copyrighted image on your website that is > streamed off someone else's website. You would be claiming to host the > file while actually leeching someone's bandwith. > = > - Michel I personally don't see a problem in the case of flash-plugin. = Macromedia is mainly concerned about getting download statistics for = every download in order to gauge marketshare. I would suggest that it = is also within our interests to allow them to do so. We can show that = we do exist and use their plugin. I personally don't care if anyone = implements this as long as it requires zero of my time. Don't expect = anything dynamic on the mirrors either, because we are using static = pages for security reasons. If anyone actually implements this, don't point at macromedia.mplug.org = and use the other mirrors. Also please choose the right package for the = right distribution so the distribution breakdown statistics remain correct. (Scroll to the bottom of the macromedia.mplug.org main page to see the = download statistics.) Warren --===============8367594178417833094==-- From tony at tgds.net Mon Feb 2 01:52:20 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8804902451574191158==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: tony To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 07:53:17 +0100 Message-ID: <1075704796.9750.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040201150736.GC30540@devserv.devel.redhat.com --===============8804902451574191158== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le dim 01/02/2004 =C3=A0 16:07, Alan Cox a =C3=A9crit : > > > xine has a variant that already does. Just needs the reverse engineer= ed > > > libddmpeg work and my surfaces rewrite for via and some oddments to > > > make it work open source > > = > > You mean ViacripplEdXinePlayer a.k.a VeXP=3D:-p > > = > > Been there, tried that. When it doesn't crash and burn and when it > > allows DVB-S playback I'll look again. > = > Well its up to someone like you who cares to port the fixes into a current > Xine. I did look. This is way over my head, I'm a tinkerer with no formal programming experience. = I don't call finding and correcting a couple of bugs in USB storage back in my Vaio C days "experience". Nor is compiling pgaccess for Mac OS X. Those are my two claims to fame, period. = The reverse engineering guys are doing a good job but they aren't very organised - there a bits and pieces all over and it is difficult to know what is needed. I guess I could figure out what goes where with a couple of pointers hint hint... Cheers Tony Grant -- = www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit --===============8804902451574191158==-- From chadley at pinteq.co.za Mon Feb 2 06:52:40 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2517882614793220690==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chadley Wilson To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:53:39 +0200 Message-ID: <1075722819.7710.87.camel@chad.workgroup> In-Reply-To: 1075704796.9750.11.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============2517882614793220690== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a bit off the topic here, Xine does funny things with certain older dvds on of them is it adjusts the screen area and doesnt restore it so you find your screen pans when you push the mouse pointer to the edges. So I tried installing mplayer via download [I cant get yum to work because of the companies firewall] and there were too many dependancy threads so I gave up downloading mplayer. So I download Gxine instead and problem solved one file one install, = Pretty cool. Chad On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 08:53, Tony Grant wrote: > Le dim 01/02/2004 =C3=A0 16:07, Alan Cox a =C3=A9crit : > = > > > > xine has a variant that already does. Just needs the reverse engine= ered > > > > libddmpeg work and my surfaces rewrite for via and some oddments to > > > > make it work open source > > > = > > > You mean ViacripplEdXinePlayer a.k.a VeXP=3D:-p > > > = > > > Been there, tried that. When it doesn't crash and burn and when it > > > allows DVB-S playback I'll look again. > > = > > Well its up to someone like you who cares to port the fixes into a curr= ent > > Xine. > = > I did look. This is way over my head, I'm a tinkerer with no formal > programming experience. = > = > I don't call finding and correcting a couple of bugs in USB storage back > in my Vaio C days "experience". Nor is compiling pgaccess for Mac OS X. > Those are my two claims to fame, period. = > = > The reverse engineering guys are doing a good job but they aren't very > organised - there a bits and pieces all over and it is difficult to know > what is needed. I guess I could figure out what goes where with a couple > of pointers hint hint... > = > Cheers > = > Tony Grant > = > -- = > www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit > = > = --===============2517882614793220690==-- From thias at spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.spam.egg.and.spam.freshrpms.net Mon Feb 2 12:08:36 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3865870620339916350==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Matthias Saou To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:09:38 +0100 Message-ID: <20040202180938.641bff34@python.freshrpms.net> In-Reply-To: 1075561530.4878.4.camel@localhost.localdomain --===============3865870620339916350== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Julien Olivier wrote : > XMame is totally free and legal, isn't it ? Mame ROMS are illegal > though, and not only in the US (this is not a software patent problem). (X)MAME can't really be considered free, as there are some limitations as to how it or any derivative work can be (re)distributed. Basically, you can't charge for MAME in any shape or form. This is mainly to avoid having companies selling some kind of "arcade game console" which would be running MAME. Please check out the full license at http://www.mame.net/ for more precise information. Matthias -- = Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/ Fedora Core release 1 (Yarrow) - Linux kernel 2.4.22-1.2163.nptl Load : 0.64 1.09 1.01 --===============3865870620339916350==-- From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Feb 3 03:09:40 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8221952828800983584==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Panu Matilainen To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:10:35 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 1075666535.24061.15.camel@binkley --===============8221952828800983584== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, seth vidal wrote: > = > > I suppose this covers things like mirror information? If not that should > > be added separately. > > = > > > = > > > - meta-repositories (or repository groups) > = > a thought here - what about having repository-wide-provides and > repository-wide-dependencies? > = > It'd be interesting to have: rpm.livna.org depends on fedora-core, > fedora-extras > = > would be hard to control, but potentially interesting. Mmm, interesting idea indeed. I like it. While on the subject of common metadata (like I suspected the = ideas/issues start coming up once you start actually looking into = implementing it :) - don't worry, no showstoppers so far, just a couple of = things to (re)consider: - Do we really want users to download all the src.rpm data each time? Most = users don't do anything with that information so it sucks up bandwidth for = no purpose. Maybe the src.rpm file information should be separated to = different files? - Any particular reason for using gzip instead of bzip2? The difference = can be huge, especially for other.xml: -rw-rw-r-- 1 pmatilai pmatilai 3399842 Feb 3 09:58 filelists.xml.bz2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 pmatilai pmatilai 4267044 Feb 3 09:56 filelists.xml.gz -rw-rw-r-- 1 pmatilai pmatilai 6297754 Feb 3 10:00 other.xml.bz2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 pmatilai pmatilai 13301830 Feb 3 09:56 other.xml.gz -rw-rw-r-- 1 pmatilai pmatilai 1011254 Feb 3 09:57 primary.xml.bz2 -rw-rw-r-- 1 pmatilai pmatilai 1443432 Feb 3 09:56 primary.xml.gz -rw-rw-r-- 1 pmatilai pmatilai 666 Feb 3 09:56 repomd.xml - Panu - --===============8221952828800983584==-- From julo at altern.org Tue Feb 3 05:27:05 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5918056546208753221==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Julien Olivier To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:28:10 +0000 Message-ID: <1075804089.4878.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040202180938.641bff34@python.freshrpms.net --===============5918056546208753221== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > (X)MAME can't really be considered free, as there are some limitations as > to how it or any derivative work can be (re)distributed. Basically, you > can't charge for MAME in any shape or form. This is mainly to avoid having > companies selling some kind of "arcade game console" which would be runni= ng > MAME. Please check out the full license at http://www.mame.net/ for more > precise information. You're right. From the FAQ, it says that's it's free to re-distribute but that you can't sell it. That said, I think it's free _enough_ to have it in anvil's repository. -- = Julien Olivier --===============5918056546208753221==-- From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Feb 3 07:41:37 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1901285860448894371==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: seth vidal To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 07:39:40 -0500 Message-ID: <1075811980.5382.17.camel@binkley> In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.58.0402030941230.303@chip.laiskiainen.org --===============1901285860448894371== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > - Do we really want users to download all the src.rpm data each time? Mos= t = > users don't do anything with that information so it sucks up bandwidth fo= r = > no purpose. Maybe the src.rpm file information should be separated to = > different files? the src rpms stuff are more of a . I got a bunch of complaints about yum's src.rpm header.info file being separate from the primary header.info so I figured that might help resolve it. > - Any particular reason for using gzip instead of bzip2? The difference = > can be huge, especially for other.xml: Yah - bzip2 isn't everywhere - gzip is. Specifically bzip2 isn't in python 2.2 - you need an external module that's not in fedora core 1. I thought DV had a complaint about bzip2 as well, but I'm not positive of that. -sv --===============1901285860448894371==-- From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Feb 3 08:02:33 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3226506557341888245==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Panu Matilainen To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:03:28 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 1075811980.5382.17.camel@binkley --===============3226506557341888245== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, seth vidal wrote: > > - Do we really want users to download all the src.rpm data each time? M= ost = > > users don't do anything with that information so it sucks up bandwidth = for = > > no purpose. Maybe the src.rpm file information should be separated to = > > different files? > = > the src rpms stuff are more of a . I got a bunch of complaints > about yum's src.rpm header.info file being separate from the primary > header.info so I figured that might help resolve it. Dunno, nobody ever complained apt having separate files for binary and source indexes :) Not that I personally care about it either, I've enough plenty enough bandwidth and would download the src.rpm stuff = anyway. Just a bit of wasted bandwidth for everybody to download those but = no big deal. > > - Any particular reason for using gzip instead of bzip2? The difference = > > can be huge, especially for other.xml: > = > Yah - bzip2 isn't everywhere - gzip is. > Specifically bzip2 isn't in python 2.2 - you need an external module > that's not in fedora core 1. Ok, I thought it might have to do with that. OTOH there's a bz2 python = module in python 2.3 which is in FC2, which I think is the "target" for = this stuff anyway. - Panu - --===============3226506557341888245==-- From hvdkooij at vanderkooij.org Tue Feb 3 08:39:49 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1431096419172761017==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Hugo van der Kooij To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:40:50 +0100 Message-ID: <58121.194.151.25.67.1075815650.squirrel@hvdkooij.xs4all.nl> In-Reply-To: 401C6BC1.8040600@togami.com --===============1431096419172761017== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Warren Togami zei: > Eric S. Raymond wrote: >> >> I think libdcvss is already in livna's xine set. Carrying >> flash-plugin would be a good idea, though. > > Redistribution of flash-plugin is completely illegal under Macromedia's > EULA, and also and unneeded since Macromedia has given me special > permission to maintain RPM packages and apt/yum/urpmi repositories for > the plugin. Could you share the YUM info with us? Hugo. -- = All email sent to me is bound to the rules described on my homepage. hvdkooij(a)vanderkooij.org http://hvdkooij.xs4all.nl/ Don't meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle and quick to anger. --===============1431096419172761017==-- From skvidal at phy.duke.edu Tue Feb 3 09:05:00 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1204976852860584075==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: seth vidal To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:04:22 -0500 Message-ID: <1075817061.5382.20.camel@binkley> In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.58.0402031453580.816@chip.laiskiainen.org --===============1204976852860584075== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Dunno, nobody ever complained apt having separate files for binary and > source indexes :) Not that I personally care about it either, I've enough > plenty enough bandwidth and would download the src.rpm stuff = > anyway. Just a bit of wasted bandwidth for everybody to download those bu= t = > no big deal. What does the difference work out to? Have you compared them? like fc1 with srpms vs w/o. > Ok, I thought it might have to do with that. OTOH there's a bz2 python = > module in python 2.3 which is in FC2, which I think is the "target" for = > this stuff anyway. but if you're running createrepo on a mirror you won't necessarily have that mirror running fc2 or python 2.3. Hell, I was reaching to think people would have python 2.2, rpm and libxml2 -sv --===============1204976852860584075==-- From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Feb 3 10:12:56 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0017668157360160431==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Panu Matilainen To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:13:52 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 1075817061.5382.20.camel@binkley --===============0017668157360160431== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, seth vidal wrote: > = > > Dunno, nobody ever complained apt having separate files for binary and > > source indexes :) Not that I personally care about it either, I've enou= gh > > plenty enough bandwidth and would download the src.rpm stuff = > > anyway. Just a bit of wasted bandwidth for everybody to download those = but = > > no big deal. > = > What does the difference work out to? Have you compared them? > = > like fc1 with srpms vs w/o. For an RHL 9 based distro: RPMS: 1579532 Feb 3 16:59 filelists.xml.gz 3245800 Feb 3 16:59 other.xml.gz 512172 Feb 3 16:59 primary.xml.gz 666 Feb 3 16:59 repomd.xml SRPMS: 77725 Feb 3 17:00 filelists.xml.gz 1083911 Feb 3 17:00 other.xml.gz 213598 Feb 3 17:00 primary.xml.gz 666 Feb 3 17:00 repomd.xml Whether the SRPMS part is big enough for "junk most users dont need" to = matter I don't know. > = > > Ok, I thought it might have to do with that. OTOH there's a bz2 python = > > module in python 2.3 which is in FC2, which I think is the "target" for = > > this stuff anyway. > = > but if you're running createrepo on a mirror you won't necessarily have > that mirror running fc2 or python 2.3. > = > Hell, I was reaching to think people would have python 2.2, rpm and > libxml2 Oh I know.. having compiled rpm + apt-rpm on a Debian box just to be able to put a repository there :) - Panu - --===============0017668157360160431==-- From katzj at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 10:42:06 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5579848102261207485==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy Katz To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:41:11 -0500 Message-ID: <1075822871.5232.11.camel@edoras.local.net> In-Reply-To: Pine.LNX.4.58.0402030941230.303@chip.laiskiainen.org --===============5579848102261207485== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 10:10 +0200, Panu Matilainen wrote: > - Any particular reason for using gzip instead of bzip2? The difference = > can be huge, especially for other.xml: The difference in memory usage can be huge too -- bzip's memory footprint is far larger than gzip's and not really worth the compression savings in the vast majority of cases. Cheers, Jeremy --===============5579848102261207485==-- From pmatilai at welho.com Tue Feb 3 11:53:19 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1850167330931662919==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Panu Matilainen To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:54:15 +0200 Message-ID: <1075827254.1328.6.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org> In-Reply-To: 1075822871.5232.11.camel@edoras.local.net --===============1850167330931662919== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 17:41, Jeremy Katz wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 10:10 +0200, Panu Matilainen wrote: > > - Any particular reason for using gzip instead of bzip2? The difference = > > can be huge, especially for other.xml: > = > The difference in memory usage can be huge too -- bzip's memory > footprint is far larger than gzip's and not really worth the compression > savings in the vast majority of cases. Sure bzip2 uses more memory but a box which can comfortably run FC 1 or 2 can afford whatever memory bzip2 uses. Heck my firewall box with 32MB memory has no problems running apt and using bzip2 as package index compression. In embedded space, and ok from installer point of view (since it's you who mentions the memory usage :) things can be different. - Panu - --===============1850167330931662919==-- From katzj at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 14:15:27 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7591499269121072962==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy Katz To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: meta-repository idea (was Re: mplayer vs. xine) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:16:35 -0500 Message-ID: <1075835795.8620.13.camel@mirkwood.boston.redhat.com> In-Reply-To: 1075827254.1328.6.camel@chip.laiskiainen.org --===============7591499269121072962== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 18:54 +0200, Panu Matilainen wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 17:41, Jeremy Katz wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 10:10 +0200, Panu Matilainen wrote: > > > - Any particular reason for using gzip instead of bzip2? The differen= ce = > > > can be huge, especially for other.xml: > > = > > The difference in memory usage can be huge too -- bzip's memory > > footprint is far larger than gzip's and not really worth the compression > > savings in the vast majority of cases. > = > Sure bzip2 uses more memory but a box which can comfortably run FC 1 or > 2 can afford whatever memory bzip2 uses. Heck my firewall box with 32MB > memory has no problems running apt and using bzip2 as package index > compression. In embedded space, and ok from installer point of view > (since it's you who mentions the memory usage :) things can be > different. Right, but we want one metadata format to rule them all which means that you want to care about this case. And even if it can be comfortably run, that doesn't mean that you want all of the extra overhead. If it were the case, then we'd all be going with bzip2 payloads in rpm now :-) Jeremy --===============7591499269121072962==-- From salimma at fastmail.fm Wed Feb 4 11:25:41 2004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6634604844826984622==" MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michel Alexandre Salim To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: mplayer vs. xine Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 23:26:44 +0700 Message-ID: <1075912003.7464.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: 20040201185521.A14991@meenakshi.cs.iitm.ernet.in --===============6634604844826984622== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 18:55 +0530, Arvind Narayanan wrote: > On Sat, Jan 31, 2004 at 10:23:04PM -0500, Konstantin Riabitsev wrote: > [snip] = > > However, distributing proprietary packages without having a license = > > to distribute them would be a violation of international copyrights, = > > which is a criminal offense in most of the civilized world. As long = > ^^^^^^^^^ > Is the implication intentional? > Just curious. > = Well, that statement is not offensive. Even in backwater Indonesia we have copyright laws, so it's a criminal offense to distribute without a license. It's just .. ahem.. the implementation of those laws that leave much to be desired. - Michel * looking over his shoulder * --===============6634604844826984622== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMi4zIChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFCQUlSMUR0R214M3JXS2cxY1JBaVBwQUp3SkJjekd5T0tEd1lFa3hkOVE3 WnEzSW94NDJ3Q2ZaWjFTCjBwcVRrSVkxUlVxVnVLcS8vTnh6SWtzPQo9S0ZLLwotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============6634604844826984622==--