On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Sun, 2013-05-05 at 14:07 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Dan Mashal wrote: Hi,
In the latest Fedora 19 Beta TC2 install after I got through the initial steps of the install I started to setup my root password. To my surprise my password was shown in plain text instead of bullets.The obvious workaround is to use a temporary password during installation and on the first boot use passwd to change it (still leaves a small time window of vulnerability though). It is similar to removing pulseaudio upon installation to get the sound working. Surprisingly, Fedora keeps adding these "hidden" steps to complete a sane installation, yet adding a step to educate users about DE choices is still a taboo.
Whether you think the change was a good change or not, it is out of line to suggest that the idea was somehow "adding these "hidden" steps to complete a sane installation". The idea was to improve the usability of the password entry dialog, on the understanding that the practical security impact was minimal. Now we can argue with that assessment, and that's what we're doing, but it would be really nice if people would assume *good* faith on the part of other members of the project, not *bad* faith. The anaconda team are working hard to make things better, not worse, just like the rest of us.
Sorry, I did not try to imply "*bad* faith" on any members of the project. I try to look at it as posing challenges to filter out the weak and let the fittest survive, which, I think, can be explained by "*good* faith". I admire certain developers' imagination.
Going off-topic:
It is ridiculous to suggest that "removing pulseaudio upon installation to get the sound working" is some kind of ""hidden" steps to complete a sane installation". In addition to all the objections above, it is factually incorrect: in the vast majority of installations, sound works better with PulseAudio than without it.
Well, unfortunately it did not work on a fresh F18 installation on a rare hardware (onboard Intel HD Audio) a couple of weeks back. I really did not want to spend time to figure out what was wrong. Just guess what I did to fix it (and it worked rightaway) ...
Look, please, by all means, calmly discuss the merits of the decision. Just don't bring into question the motivations of its introduction unless you have a damn strong factual basis for doing so.
I believe I do have a damn strong factual basis on everything I claimed. Sorry if I could not manage to convince.
Best, Orcan