On 25/06/20 18:48 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 22:30 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> Well, I strongy disagree whit this move.
> In fact on of the things that I hate of Debian/Ubuntu is the choice of nano
> and the poor version that they offer by default of vi.
> More friendly for end-users? Really?
> Please thinking so, the end-user use GUI's. Nano has no any significative
> advantage over vi and even lesser over vim. What's the wrong with vim?
> Really I don't understand.
> If one end-user wants to use a text editor, he will find kate, gedit and
> the like better options. If you don't like a modal editor, propose a better
> option not a mediocre one. For example, micro is a non-modal editor but
> more powerful that nano.
> If has no real benefit, please could you reconsider it and let the
> community give his voice?
> Thanks in advance.
This isn't about an editor someone *chooses* to use.
It's about that moment quite soon after you start using Linux, when
you're puzzling your way through something at a console, and something
you do triggers the default editor.
If you are unfortunate enough that the default editor is vi, what
happens next is you spend half an hour trying to figure out what the
*hell* is going on, followed by - depending how much you've learned
about Linux so far, and whether you're at a VT or a desktop terminal -
killing or closing the terminal from somewhere else, or just hard
rebooting the system. (I had literally exactly this experience myself,
back in the year 2000 or so.)
Back in 2000 maybe, but these days I'm surprised it can take half an
hour for somebody with **any** unix/linux experience to try Ctrl-C,
and in normal mode that makes vim say:
Type :qa and press <Enter> to exit Vim
And if you've somehow got into insert mode and type Ctrl-C Ctrl-C it
Type :qa! and press <Enter> to abandon all changes and exit Vim
That's been there for years, so I think the "stuck in vim" meme is
Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is
happens in this case) tells you you need to press 'insert' in order to
actually edit anything. Nothing in vi's default view tells you you have
to type the entirely cryptic sequence ":wq" to save and exit (or gives
you any clue how to exit at all).
Nothing says that if you just sit there staring at it for half an
hour, but Ctrl-C does tell you what to do.
Nothing in vi's default view even
*tells you that what you're looking at is a text editor called vi*.
Yes, the fact you don't even know which editor you're in, so don't
know how to search the web for clues, is the main reason I'm in favour
of the change.
Some actual numbers (from 2017), which are missing from this thread:
"In the last year, How to exit the Vim editor has made up about .005%
of question traffic: that is, one out of every 20,000 visits to Stack
Overflow questions. That means during peak traffic hours on weekdays,
there are about 80 people per hour that need help getting out of Vim."
And that's Stack Overflow, a website **for developers**, and those
numbers are for people who actually know they're in Vim and know what
to search for!