On 30 June 2020 16:52:52 CEST, Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 08:43:34AM +0200, Markus Larsson wrote:
> I have been using fedora since FC1 and there has been a few shifts. The
> latest shift seems to be a strong desire to be just another Ubuntu. That's
> fine, nothing wrong with that... Do we need more Ubuntus though?
I don't know what it means to "be another Ubuntu". We're a different
with a different structure and a different lineage.
A distribution which has an aim to streamline the experience in order to cater to new
Ubuntu is super good at this.
Would I like the stuff we produce to be as popular as Ubuntu in terms of
user base? No -- I would like it to be more popular. And I think it's very
I would like that too.
I know change is hard. I used to be a grumpy sysadmin myself and I can
relate to a lot of what you're saying. But I don't think the "alienating
current users vs. attracting new users" dichotomy is a useful one. Many
current users will also benefit from and appreciate the proposed changes.
Please don't go "change is hard" on me. That is what management do when they
push for unpopular ideas.
My problem isn't with change, my problem is with how the change is done and in some
cases why the change is done.
Change is not only inevitable it's also the only way things can get better. That
doesn't mean that all changes are for the better.
As for the "old users vs new users" not being useful, well, there's a few
reasons why I'm still here. It's mainly that Fedora has good QA, SELinux and very
current software. That suits me well for my home environment. What is pretty clear
however, is that one can say "hold on how does this affect new users?" but
"how does this affect current users?" isn't as interesting.
I don't think the FOSS world needs another Ubuntu, Ubuntu already does that.
I think Fedora can compete with that without giving up inclusiveness. There can be a
Workstation edition that has sane defaults without hiding the fact that things can be
However, one size definitely does not fit all, and our strategy is designed
*precisely* to address that.
Well ofc, but if there is going to be a new spin for every taste then the fragmentation
will be a horrible. I'm a proponent of having a set of defaults and then having
flexibility since that means people can coexist. But that also means that there needs to
be flexibility in the install stage too.
I used to be able just grab an ISO of getfedora in case of emergency and get a replacement
machine up an running very quickly without much hassle because I could fix most things
during the install stage. Now I have instead built kickstarts for the relevant machines
and manage them via ansible. It's good sure but having to do it for my home
environment is mildly annoying.
So well, if I could find another distribution that is current, has good MAC and good QA I
would probably use that. Problem is that it doesn't really exist and I like Fedora.
I guess I'll just cover my own bases and mark workstation edition as Someone Elses