On 8/27/2019 4:01 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Tue, 2019-08-27 at 15:06 +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
>
>> mcatanzaro(a)gnome.org píše v Út 27. 08. 2019 v 15:07 +0300:
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 4:22 AM, John Harris <johnmh(a)splentity.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, that is not how this works, at all. First, let's go ahead and
>>>> address the
>>>> idea that "if the firewall blocks it, the app breaks, so it's
the
>>>> firewall's
>>>> fault": It's not. If the firewall has not been opened, that
just
>>>> means it
>>>> can't be accessed by remote systems until you EXPLICITLY open that
>>>> port, with
>>>> the correct protocol, on your firewall. That's FINE. That's how
>>>> it's designed
>>>> to work. There's nothing wrong with that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This means that the system administrator (or owner, if this is
>>>> some
>>>> individual's personal system) must allow the port to be accessed
>>>> remotely,
>>>> before the app can be reached remotely, increasing the security of
>>>> the system.
>>>
>>> You've already lost me here. Sorry, but we do not and will not
>>> install a firewall GUI that exposes complex technical details like
>>> port numbers. Expecting users to edit firewall rules to use their
>>> apps is ridiculous and I'm not really interested in debating it.
>>
>> Yeah, when you ask users questions they're not qualified to answer,
>> you're just creating bad design.
>> I always imagine my mom (who BTW has been a Fedora user for years) how
>> she'd deal with that and I can't really imagine her opening/closing
>> firewall ports. She'd be puzzled even by "Do you trust this
network?"
>> and would probably just click "Yes" to make it go away. No additional
>> security, just annoying UX.
>
> However, Fedora Workstation is an edition. Which means it has a
> *policy-defined* target audience. That target audience is defined here:
>
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Workstation_PRD#Target_Audience
>
>
>
>
> Case 1: "Engineering/CS student"
> Case 2: "Independent Developer"
> Case 3: "Small Company Developer"
> Case 4: "Developer in a Large Organization"
>
>
>
> Are those people we believe do not understand the concepts associated
> with firewalls?
The term "Workstation" itself has a long pedigree and is laden with a
variety of connotations. The failure here may be that that term has been
conflated with "Desktop". Your mother surfing Facebook may benefit from
a "Linux Desktop" (maybe.), but she's probably not the target for a
"Linux Workstation" unless
https://xkcd.com/327/ is likely to happen.
"Fedora as a Distro" could do a better job of articulating this
distinction. Perhaps a user vs. poweruser split is viable at
install/config time, or perhaps Desktop and Workstation would warrant
separate Editions.
"Fedora as a Project", OTOH, seems to be reaching a point where so many
downstream users have varying needs (and I'm including Editions, Atomic,
Container folks, EPEL as a side project, and RHEL/CentOS/SL here) that a
fundamental project re-architecture is getting to be warranted.
-jc
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"Workstation" literally means a station to work at. Any computer you can do
work on is a workstation. My workstation is an X200 Tablet running Fedora KDE
Spin, for example.
If there is to be a Desktop edition, I vote KDE is the default DE of it.
--
John M. Harris, Jr. <johnmh(a)splentity.com>
Splentity