On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:05 AM, Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:51:16 -0700
Andrew Lutomirski <luto(a)mit.edu> wrote:
> By that standard, why do we support dnf at all?
> $ sudo dnf upgrade
> Error: dnf upgrade is dangerous. Use PackageKit instead and reboot
> when asked.
> I, for one, *like* not rebooting, and I'm perfectly capable of
> rebooting manually if stuff breaks. As far as I know, Fedora
> considers plain ol' dnf to be supported.
Well, the problem there, what do you mean by 'support'?
In this case lots of people use dnf for updates, so IMHO it would be
"we will try and keep this working, and fix anything we can, but do
understand that there's a low level problem here that something could
mess up updates in progress, if you want to be more sure of not hitting
problems, use the offline updates in your graphical desktop"
> For server use, I'm not convinced that the offline update mechanism is
> supported (at the very least, I have no idea how to trigger it), and
> servers have the same issue.
Much less so. In the server case you have usually ssh, bash and dnf, in
the desktop case you have X, possibly wayland, tons of graphics
libraries, the terminal application you are using and all it's
libraries, and a shell and dnf. There's just a lot more there to
My point is that a lot of this exposure could be avoided. Sure,
there's a decent chance that updating packages will crash running
programs. But, unless one of those programs is dnf, rpm, or systemd,
that shouldn't be an excuse to blow up the whole upgrade. I've had
Firefox blow up many times due to concurrent dnf, but this doesn't
hose my system. Having gnome-terminal or X or Wayland die shouldn't
be any more dangerous.
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So, yes, offline updates or ostree-style updates are better in many
respects, but as long as we provide plain dnf, I think it would be
worth the small amount of effort to make dnf robust against the