On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 11:19 AM Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@redhat.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 10:17:21AM +0100, Leigh Griffin wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Thank you for your patience while the CPE Team worked through an incredible
> number of requirements from multiple stakeholder sources. On Friday evening
> we announced on the Community Blog
> <https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/making-a-git-forge-decision/> our
> decision to adopt Gitlab as our Git Forge and to retain pagure.io to
> ultimately hand over to the Community to maintain. It wasn't an easy
> decision by any stretch of the imagination and we hope that the compromise
> that we are striking will help to allow Pagure flourish and to give a
> choice of Forges for your usage. I'm happy to field any questions or
> comments about this decision.

Overall I understand the decision to focus on GitLab & think it makes a lot
of sense given the precedent of other large open source projects adopting
it. I was always sceptical that there were enough resources invested to
turn Pagure into a strong competitor, especially when other large projects
that could have been potential users & contributors of Pagure (GNOME,
FreeDesktop, KDE, etc) all picked GitLab.


That said I have some issues with the blog. It doesn't distiguish very well
between Pagure as the dist-git instance, and Pagure as a general "upstream"
project hosting instance, so it is hard to intepret what applies to what.
The language is murky & contradictory 

 "Keep Pagure running with our oversight while we analyse a sunset
  timeline which will give a minimum of 12 months notice once we
  have a plan firmed up. We will fix blocker bugs, address critical
  vulnerabilities and keep the lights on in the same manner that we
  have committed to over the last 14 months where Pagure has not
  been a staffed and supported initiative."
The word "sunset" here tells me that pagure.io is going away and we'll need
to move projects off it. Similarly the last sentence reinforces that Pagure
is considered abandonware.

We will continue with Pagure as a dist-git AND as a project hosting service for a minimum of 12 months once we have a timeline established. That could see the status quo remain for several months on top of that 12 month clock.
  

At the same time the blog says "we do not want to abandon Pagure" and

   "provide them with guidance and oversight to help the Pagure
    Community grow. We recognise that this is a growing and
    unique ecosystem and we genuinely want to see it succeed and
    will do our best to support it in that capacity"

which says that pagure.io is intended to carry on living and even grow.

We will continue to host pagure.io for the foreseeable future but like all apps that we currently host or maintain, we will evaluate the difficulty in maintenance and strive for more community involvement in their upkeep as CPE cannot own and maintain every single Fedora application.
 

And

  "Offer the maintenance of pagure.io to anyone in the community
   interested in leading it."

which says we want to abandon it, but perhaps some kind person might step
in to rescue it, but we've no idea who that will be aside from some community
group yet to be clearly identified.

Put simply, CPE will not be driving the long term maintenance and growth of Pagure. We want the community to drive this and lead the way and give it the time and attention that we cannot. We will provide power and ping and try our best to keep it on the air but we would hope to have assistance with the latter as time goes on and if we get to a point where we can even hand the power and ping aspects over, then we will certainly do that to ensure Pagure has a future that is in the community's own hands.
 

Overall I'm left with zero confidence about the future of general project
hosting on pagure.io

I hope the above gives some clarity and confidence that pagure.io as a project hosting service is not going away any time soon, if ever. 


Having lived through Fedora Hosted arriving and then being killed, and
now Pagure arriving and then being killed, I don't have any confidence
in the future. Better to accept now that general project hosting is never
going to be a core deliverable of Fedora

I need to correct you here, is not a core deliverable of the CPE team. Our mission statement does not extend to Pagure and project hosting and we made that clear several months back. I can't speak for Fedora and would urge you to take that conversation up with the Council.
 
and projects should focus on the
primary gitlab.com instance if they need hosting that has got a chance of
still existing in 3-5 years time.

Regards,
Daniel
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--

Leigh Griffin

Engineering Manager

Red Hat Waterford

Communications House

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