On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 8:40 PM Japheth Cleaver <cleaver(a)terabithia.org> wrote:
Is this really worth the effort? cronie in F30 is a 103K package, and
decent chunk of that might be the ChangeLog. crontabs is all of 18K,
which is 95% the GPL and the RPM header. It seems like a very small
price to pay for something everyone is going to assume will be on any
*nix-compatible system of note.
I read, possibly misread, the original comment as being about the
number of "unneeded" things in the install, not necessarily the weight
of the specific packages. What I think we are hearing from
containers, OSTree, etc. is that there is a group of people that wants
their systems more minimal with less unnecessary stuff. Some of this
is about resource-sizing (RAM, Disk, etc.), some is about update and
security footprints, and some of it is about "psychic weight." I
realize that we have to make these tradeoffs in some cases, for
example, aiui, gnome-keyring is not able to be removed and still have
a functional Gnome environment. But this isn't universally the case.
This seems to go back to who is the primary target audience for our
Workstation edition and what do they want/expect. Then we can
document the changes and socialize them over a few releases so that
other users can get to where they want to be. Basically "extra" isn't
what no one wants, its what our defined target doesn't want/expect. I
don't expect the tools I use to always be installed by default and I
don't think anyone else on the list does either. It also speaks to
our spins/labs as ways to take our existing software and reformulate
the install to meet different users' needs.
Lastly, taking a position on some of this, for example, removing cron,
is a form of opinionation that calls back to our roots of innovating
in the OS space. We would be saying, we recognize this is the way we
did things X years ago, but there are new ways and processes and we
see value in those. If we can't remove these things, then we are
being a good distribution by pointing out where solutions that claim
to fix something have fallen short so that those upstreams can make
decisions about what to do.
The last thing I'd want to have to deal with is solving for a
/etc/cron.* because someone forgot to click a checkbox somewhere or
didn't call it out in kickstart.
Yes, but I also don't want to deal with a security fix in cron when I
didn't want it to begin with. Adding software the user doesn't want
to have it as assumed for other users is always a trade-off.