Some Ideas About Fedora 14 Media

[Liang Suilong]

Hi, all.

Fedora 13 Desktop Spin would target to 1GB LiveDVD. But at last desktop team
decided to return to 700MB CD size. It means that we should give up
OpenOffice.org and GIMP by default. It looks quite sad. Looking at
BrOffice.org, I seem to find out some ideas.

Broffice suite and GIMP are installed in BrOffice.org by default,
nevertheless, broffice spin gives up many locale files. Broffice just only
support English, Spanish and Portuguese. So does desktop spin follow this
method? Deskop spin contains OOo and GIMP, but it should remove most of
GNOME locale files and OOo langpack. Then desktop spin can keep 700MB CD
size.

How can we download langpack file? Yum-langpacks seems to be the best
solution. When we choose some language in system-config-lanage,
yum-langpacks can download langpack of GNOME, KDE and OOo and some fonts we
need and IME for that language. Anaconda also can run this plugin in
%post-install so that it can fetch language pack and IME from remote
repository.

But We can not ignore that separating langpack from GNOME is a great job.
Packaging langpack like kde-l10n-* and language-pack-* in Ubuntu needs a lot
of packager to do it.

Better experience: Live/Install Hybrid DVD
Looking at install DVD, it looks too old. To add a Livesystem on DVD media
can improve user experience. However, unlike Anaconda on install media,
Anaconda on live system can not load a repository on media or a remote
repository. That's a great problem.

Just hope these suggestions can help Fedora community, I wish that Fedora 14
would have a better installation experience.

Liang Suilong

-- 
Fedora && Debian User, former Ubuntu User
My Page: http://www.liangsuilong.info
Fedora Project Contributor -- Packager && Ambassador
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Liangsuilong

[Nicolas Chauvet]

2010/4/28 Liang Suilong <liangsuilong(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  Hi, all.
>  Fedora 13 Desktop Spin would target to 1GB LiveDVD. But at last desktop team
>  decided to return to 700MB CD size. It means that we should give up
>  OpenOffice.org and GIMP by default. It looks quite sad. Looking at
>  BrOffice.org, I seem to find out some ideas.
>  Broffice suite and GIMP are installed in BrOffice.org by default,
>  nevertheless, broffice spin gives up many locale files. Broffice just only
>  support English, Spanish and Portuguese. So does desktop spin follow this
>  method? Deskop spin contains OOo and GIMP, but it should remove most of
>  GNOME locale files and OOo langpack. Then desktop spin can keep 700MB CD
>  size.
>  How can we download langpack file? Yum-langpacks seems to be the best
>  solution. When we choose some language in system-config-lanage,
>  yum-langpacks can download langpack of GNOME, KDE and OOo and some fonts we
>  need and IME for that language. Anaconda also can run this plugin in
>  %post-install so that it can fetch language pack and IME from remote
>  repository.
>  But We can not ignore that separating langpack from GNOME is a great job.
>  Packaging langpack like kde-l10n-* and language-pack-* in Ubuntu needs a lot
>  of packager to do it.
>  Better experience: Live/Install Hybrid DVD
>  Looking at install DVD, it looks too old. To add a Livesystem on DVD media
>  can improve user experience. However, unlike Anaconda on install media,
>  Anaconda on live system can not load a repository on media or a remote
>  repository. That's a great problem.
>  Just hope these suggestions can help Fedora community, I wish that Fedora 14
>  would have a better installation experience.
>  Liang Suilong 
The appropriate kickstart command to filter exept but french and english is:
%packages --instLangs en:fr:fr_FR:fr-FR
it doesn't  work on EL-5 IIRC and I don't know how it will work with
lang-pack plugin.

The problem was that once the live media is installed, then you don't
have the full set of Fedora packages and you cannot restore the other
locale at this time.

I think an hybrid install/live media with locales stipped is a good
idea that worth some experiments.

Nicolas (kwizart)

[Liang Suilong]

Tnank you for your reply.

As you say, kickstart command can filter installation language. But the
problem is lacking a easy way to switch to another language which is not
installed in the system.

Once I tried to install Fedora 13 Broffice.org Spin on my desktop. Switching
to English is an easy job, nevertheless, Switching to Simplified Chinese is
quite hard. Now I do not know how to make GNOME become Chinese interface.
Should I reinstall entire GNOME? I have installed Chinese-support group.

I know separating langpack from GNOME is a difficult and big project. But
why does not GNOME pack language files like kde-l10-* for KDE4? It is more
flexible. No matter what should be changed in LiveCD, I just hope Desktop
Spin LiveCD keeps 700MB CD Size. Maybe Hybrid DVD solution will be more
available and accepted by most user.

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nicolas Chauvet <kwizart(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  2010/4/28 Liang Suilong <liangsuilong(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  > Hi, all.
>  > Fedora 13 Desktop Spin would target to 1GB LiveDVD. But at last desktop
>  team
>  > decided to return to 700MB CD size. It means that we should give up
>  > OpenOffice.org and GIMP by default. It looks quite sad. Looking at
>  > BrOffice.org, I seem to find out some ideas.
>  > Broffice suite and GIMP are installed in BrOffice.org by default,
>  > nevertheless, broffice spin gives up many locale files. Broffice just
>  only
>  > support English, Spanish and Portuguese. So does desktop spin follow this
>  > method? Deskop spin contains OOo and GIMP, but it should remove most of
>  > GNOME locale files and OOo langpack. Then desktop spin can keep 700MB CD
>  > size.
>  > How can we download langpack file? Yum-langpacks seems to be the best
>  > solution. When we choose some language in system-config-lanage,
>  > yum-langpacks can download langpack of GNOME, KDE and OOo and some fonts
>  we
>  > need and IME for that language. Anaconda also can run this plugin in
>  > %post-install so that it can fetch language pack and IME from remote
>  > repository.
>  > But We can not ignore that separating langpack from GNOME is a great job.
>  > Packaging langpack like kde-l10n-* and language-pack-* in Ubuntu needs a
>  lot
>  > of packager to do it.
>  > Better experience: Live/Install Hybrid DVD
>  > Looking at install DVD, it looks too old. To add a Livesystem on DVD
>  media
>  > can improve user experience. However, unlike Anaconda on install media,
>  > Anaconda on live system can not load a repository on media or a remote
>  > repository. That's a great problem.
>  > Just hope these suggestions can help Fedora community, I wish that Fedora
>  14
>  > would have a better installation experience.
>  > Liang Suilong
>
>  The appropriate kickstart command to filter exept but french and english
>  is:
>  %packages --instLangs en:fr:fr_FR:fr-FR
>  it doesn't  work on EL-5 IIRC and I don't know how it will work with
>  lang-pack plugin.
>
>  The problem was that once the live media is installed, then you don't
>  have the full set of Fedora packages and you cannot restore the other
>  locale at this time.
>
>  I think an hybrid install/live media with locales stipped is a good
>  idea that worth some experiments.
>
>  Nicolas (kwizart)
>  --
>  devel mailing list
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>  


-- 
Fedora && Debian User, former Ubuntu User
My Page: http://www.liangsuilong.info
Fedora Project Contributor -- Packager && Ambassador
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Liangsuilong

[Chuck Anderson]

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 03:06:25PM +0800, Liang Suilong wrote:
>  Better experience: Live/Install Hybrid DVD
>  Looking at install DVD, it looks too old. To add a Livesystem on DVD media
>  can improve user experience. However, unlike Anaconda on install media,
>  Anaconda on live system can not load a repository on media or a remote
>  repository. That's a great problem. 
It should be theoretically possible for rpm to be enhanced to handle 
"detached headerdata" so that it can treat the unpacked files from the 
Live image itself, combined with the "detached headerdata" as a 
"package" suitable for use in upgrading an existing Fedora install.  
There would need to be a lot of effort to make this work, however. 
When I brought this idea to the rpm5 maintainer, he was amenable to 
the it, although I have no idea if it has ever been done in the 
several years since I brought it up.

[Adam Williamson]

On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 17:28 +0800, Liang Suilong wrote:
>  Tnank you for your reply. 
>  
>  
>  As you say, kickstart command can filter installation language. But
>  the problem is lacking a easy way to switch to another language which
>  is not installed in the system. 
>  
>  
>  Once I tried to install Fedora 13 Broffice.org Spin on my desktop.
>  Switching to English is an easy job, nevertheless, Switching to
>  Simplified Chinese is quite hard. Now I do not know how to make GNOME
>  become Chinese interface. Should I reinstall entire GNOME? I have
>  installed Chinese-support group.  
It should be possible to hack up a script that replaces the stripped
language files (Mandriva had such a script floating about, back when I
was there, for its language-stripped live images). Not saying I can do
this, just that it ought to be possible I think :)
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

[Kevin Kofler]

Nicolas Chauvet wrote:
>  The appropriate kickstart command to filter exept but french and
> english
>  is: %packages --instLangs en:fr:fr_FR:fr-FR
>  it doesn't  work on EL-5 IIRC and I don't know how it will work with
>  lang-pack plugin.
>  
>  The problem was that once the live media is installed, then you don't
>  have the full set of Fedora packages and you cannot restore the other
>  locale at this time. 
Another problem is that it breaks DRPMs/yum-presto.

        Kevin Kofler