Thank you for your thoughts. It strikes me that perhaps what you're
advising me to do, is likely what I was wanting to do in the first
place. I certainly don't feel dissatisfied being a non-packager in
Fedora land, and I am probably a bit guilty of exageration of the
difficulties on the road to becoming a packager. Honestly, I am looking
forward to setting up to do some testing for now.
Thanks to everyone for taking the time to offer me the options
available to become a packager, this is indeed a good part of why I
enjoy being part of the community that is Fedora.
On Mon, 2021-08-16 at 19:59 +0200, Pavel Valena wrote:
On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 1:38 PM Stephen Snow <s40w5s(a)gmail.com>
> Hello Dan,
> Thank you for reaching out with your response. I have to admit, I
> in a provocotive mood the other day. I had solved a problem for a
> customer that had been worked on unsuccessfully by a local
> for three weeks. I was at that moment the master of my trade craft
> in fully glory. I bought some beer to celebrate and the resulting
> came out. So that is not to say I wasn't at least venting some
> of truth. Please bear with me as I have spent 6 decades walking
> upright, and sometimes I find laying the foundation of a
> requires preparation.
> I have built RPM's and SRPM's according to RedHat specifications, I
> think using their tutorials. I have also built an unoffical flatpak
> the IntelliJ IDE IDEA. So as for technical capability, I can read a
> manual as well as the next person.
> My thoughts were that the sponsoring, the proven packagers were
> supposed to be package mentors I thought originally, shouldn't
> until after sign up, and sign up is preconditioned by a basic CBT
> course with "build an RPM" test as final progression criteria for
> getting to ask for a sponsor. Not something inhibiting but just
> build a
> simple RPM to cover tha basic process. My reasoning is the process
> getting onboarded should, like accepting a resume or CV from anyone
> anytime, be an open door. In order to capatilize on numbers
> but also to encourage the real potential individuals who can
> technically, but are severely hampered by initial barriers. Even if
> barriers are only perceived ones. The initial CBT I mentioned would
> a way for someone like that to get a "free test". A sort of
> boost that takes nothing but their time, and allows them to show
> can do that part. Also, if they have difficulties doing a simple
> they could take some time to get that going and come back to try
> All of this can happen without the need for a sponsor getting
> until a minimum level of capability is ascertained, which should
> offload some time (for sponsors), though likely minimal I would
> We could make it a badge.
I think this situation is very unfortunate and unintended. I think
you can do (or you can start doing it) what you came to do in Fedora,
without the "packager status". In general when you already have some
project / package in Fedora that you want to maintain, you can start
to work on it straight away, as a part of gaining your packager
status. That is, while receiving feedback /advice/ from sponsor. It's
a way to gain the actual skill to become a packager - I don't think
any robot/test can replace that. I don't think packaging is about
just doing builds, in a way "it works", but rather creating a good
spec file / good package that will last for years.
Doing unofficial reviews for a package you want to get into Fedora,
or submitting a new package review request (if you want to get it to
Fedora), or re-review request (if you want to unorphan the package).
Creating PRs with an enhancement / or package upgrade. Last one you
can even do anonymously:
All of the above are IMO examples of what packager does. There's no
reason to do something else - you can just start straight away with
what you intend to do, and get a "packager" status later. Or is there
an obstacle that you packager status for, to do anything meaningful
I really hope there's a path to achieve what you came to Fedora for.
If not, I'd argue it needs to be created.
I don't think the idea of getting a packager status, just to get it
reverted some time later, wouldn't help you to become a (better)
packager. For all the best ways of collaboration (which is IMHO what
Fedora is all about) you don't need the packager status for.
> On Thu, 2021-08-12 at 19:58 +0000, Dan Čermák wrote:
> > I'd also like to plug Jakub's new sponsor page:
> > https://docs.pagure.org/fedora-sponsors/all
> > There you can find all currently active sponsors by language,
> > interest, etc.
> I like the work Jakub did on the sponsor page. This is a good way
> present them.
> > Cheers,
> > Dan
> As for Eclipse in Fedora Linux, sadly I must say I left trying to
> Eclipse going on Fedora Linux (Silverblue now) some time ago, in
> of doing what I needed in my home directory, including maven and
> and using netbeans flatpak for IDE because it works. I don't blame
> Fedora Linux or the related packagers, the satate of Java can be
> blamed on the corporate entities involved at the heart of java.
> I think the packing group is doing the work, they are the ones who
> together this thing we call Fedora Linux.
> As for myself, I have enjoyed the benefits of Fedora Linux for a
> long time and appreciate the efforts daily. I would like to return
> than appreciation to the community and that is my impetus for
> to package. I think I will take Chris Murphy's advice and start
> reviews for now, there is a rather long backlog it seems.
> > On August 12, 2021 7:29:10 AM UTC, Felix Schwarz
> > <fschwarz(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> > > Hi Stephen,
> > >
> > > thank you for your interest in contributing to Fedora. I can
> > > totally understand
> > > that the current policies may seem overwhelming so that
> becoming a
> > > packager
> > > might be seen as some kind of "elite" status.
> > > I think I would feel the same way if I didn't become a packager
> > > years ago.
> > >
> > > However I would like to emphasize Ben's point:
> > > > I think becoming a packager is not as complicated as you’ve
> > > > written. To
> > > > become a packager, you must convince a packager sponsor to
> > > > sponsor you.
> > > > That’s all; there is no rule about how to do the convincing.
> > >
> > > Maybe you do 1-2 package updates or fixes (pull request via
> > > src.fedoraproject.org
) and check the Fedora wiki pages for a
> > > of sponsors.
> > > Try contacting some of them directly after you verified they
> > > still active
> > > (mailing list/src.fedoraproject.org
). Also it helps usually if
> > > these sponsors
> > > are interested in the languages/tech stack which you tried to
> > > improve.
> > >
> > > That being said: Java in Fedora is one of the hardest areas to
> > > tackle. Several
> > > "high profile" packagers had to give up on that task (despite
> > > heroic efforts)
> > > because it is just too much for one person (or a small team).
> > >
> > > Part of the problem is that the Java upstream "culture" does
> > > matches the
> > > processes of a traditional Linux distribution like Fedora. Lots
> > > bundled
> > > dependencies, "secret" build processes and on top a huge number
> > > small packages.
> > >
> > > I can understand that "keeping Eclipse in Fedora" is a worthy
> > > for sure but
> > > really a lot of work. Other areas like Python packaging are
> > > easier as
> > > applications tend to be smaller and bundling is less common in
> > > Python world.
> > > (Also great efforts by our Python team!)
> > >
> > >
> > > One of the things I'd be interested in is "reprocible
> > > I think
> > > might be easier to contribute. While there is a lot of
> > > infrastructure to build
> > > (= a lot of work) you can also just fix one package at a time
> > > (probably with a
> > > few upstream commits). Even if you stop contributing to Fedora
> > > after some months
> > > or years you advanced the state of Fedora/Linux anyway.
> > >
> > > Felix
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