8:32 a.m.
Andr?Oriani�
But NTFS is patented by MS, maybe it's impossible to integrate NTFS module into
FC2.
======= 2003-12-19 17:16:00 Quote from your mail =======
An other suggest is support to read NTFS. It is usefull for people who
still have to use Microsoft's Products
----- Original Message -----
From: James Harrison <jamesaharrisonuk(a)yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:46:14 -0800 (PST)
To: fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
Subject: Re: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
>
> Thats a nice Christmas present, thanks.
>
> --- Andr?Oriani <aoriani(a)linuxmail.org> wrote:
> > A lot of people use hardware such softmodems, ethernet cards, ect which
> > drivers is write for a especial kernel version. I suggest that the FC2's
> > precompiled kernel use the "use older kernel modules" option to keep
the
> > linux hardware compability.
> >
> >
> > Andr?Oriani
> > Computer Engineering
> > Federal University of S� Carlos-Brasil
> >
> >
> > --
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> =====
> James Harrison
>
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hutuworm
10:50 a.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
Hi,
Am Freitag, 19. Dezember 2003 15:32 schrieb hutuworm:
But NTFS is patented by MS, maybe it's impossible to
integrate
NTFS module into FC2.
That's not the point.
Kernel-Support goes for incorporating a GPLed kind of NTFS-reading.
Are you really sure that Mandrake or SuSE gave money to M$ in order to
put this into their distro?
Freundliche Grüsse
Kind regards
Martin Mewes
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http://webmin.mamemu.de/ (Mirror)
10:54 a.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
Once upon a time, Martin Mewes <mm(a)mewes.tv> said:
Content-Description: signed data
Am Freitag, 19. Dezember 2003 15:32 schrieb hutuworm:
> But NTFS is patented by MS, maybe it's impossible to integrate
> NTFS module into FC2.
That's not the point.
Yes it is. The fact that parts of NTFS are covered by patents means
that you can't distribute it legally without a patent license.
Kernel-Support goes for incorporating a GPLed kind of NTFS-reading.
That can't be done without a patent license or a patent violation.
Are you really sure that Mandrake or SuSE gave money to M$ in order
to
put this into their distro?
No, they probably just ignored the legal problems, and Microsoft hasn't
found it worth their while to go after them (which may have something to
do with both having been headquartered outside the US; when Novell
completes the buyout of SuSE, this may change).
--
Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
12:45 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
Hi Chris,
Am Freitag, 19. Dezember 2003 17:54 schrieb Chris Adams:
Yes it is. The fact that parts of NTFS are covered by patents
means that you can't distribute it legally without a patent
license.
If it really would be like this, the complete Samba-Team must have
been jailed because they just listened to network traffic between
MS-Servers and -Clients in order to built their product.
> Kernel-Support goes for incorporating a GPLed kind of
> NTFS-reading.
That can't be done without a patent license or a patent violation.
Yes, it can. You have to analyse what NTFS does and built a r/o-thing
with your own ideas. This does not mean that you incorporate another
FileSystem named ntfs4linux (ie) to Linux.
Freundliche Grüsse
Kind regards
Martin Mewes
--
Official Webmin/Usermin Translation Co-Ordinator
http://www.webmin.com/
http://webmin.mamemu.de/ (Mirror)
1:16 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
Once upon a time, Martin Mewes <mm(a)mewes.tv> said:
Content-Description: signed data
Am Freitag, 19. Dezember 2003 17:54 schrieb Chris Adams:
> Yes it is. The fact that parts of NTFS are covered by patents
> means that you can't distribute it legally without a patent
> license.
If it really would be like this, the complete Samba-Team must have
been jailed because they just listened to network traffic between
MS-Servers and -Clients in order to built their product.
That is reverse engineering, which is legal (at least for now, some are
trying to outlaw it). If parts of the protocol are covered by patents
however, they could not release anything implementing what the same
protocol they observed (which would mean they couldn't release anything
that interoperated with the Microsoft implementations). Reverse
engineering protects against copyright violation, but not patent
violation.
> > Kernel-Support goes for incorporating a GPLed kind of
> > NTFS-reading.
>
> That can't be done without a patent license or a patent violation.
Yes, it can. You have to analyse what NTFS does and built a r/o-thing
with your own ideas. This does not mean that you incorporate another
FileSystem named ntfs4linux (ie) to Linux.
Patents cover ideas and methods, not actual implementations (copyright
covers a specific implementation of something). If it requires that you
add 1 and 1 to get 2 to read an NTFS filesystem, and Microsoft has
patented that adding 1 and 1 results in 2, you cannot write your own
code that adds 1 and 1 and gets 2 (so you can't read an NTFS
filesystem).
Think of it this way: Xerox had a patent on photocopying. That meant
that even if you came up with photocopying on your own (without even
looking at or hearing about a Xerox machine) that was similar to the way
Xerox did it, you could not sell your own photocopying equipment unless
you had a patent license from Xerox or until that patent expired.
I am not a lawyer; you should go read up on patents, copyrights, and
trademarks (commonly referred to together as "intellectual property",
although they are quite different concepts). Check out reverse
engineering as well.
--
Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
1:27 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
How about turning on ACPI_SLEEP?
Philip
1:50 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 12:45, Martin Mewes wrote:
If it really would be like this, the complete Samba-Team must have
been jailed because they just listened to network traffic between
MS-Servers and -Clients in order to built their product.
Actually, they didn't.
Andrew looked at Pathworks for DOS:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tridge&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&...
It just happened to be the same protocol. ;)
~spot
---
Tom "spot" Callaway <tcallawa(a)redhat*com> LCA, RHCE
Red Hat Sales Engineer || Aurora SPARC Linux Project Leader
"The author's mathematical treatment of the conception of purpose is
novel and highly ingenious, but heretical and, so far as the present
social order is concerned, dangerous and potentially subversive. Not to
be published." -- Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"
4:18 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 07:45:31PM +0100, Martin Mewes wrote:
Content-Description: signed data
If it really would be like this, the complete Samba-Team must have
been jailed because they just listened to network traffic between
MS-Servers and -Clients in order to built their product.
Patents != Trade secrets
Yes, it can. You have to analyse what NTFS does and built a r/o-thing
with your own ideas. This does not mean that you incorporate another
FileSystem named ntfs4linux (ie) to Linux.
A patent is a grant on *all* implementations of your technique. One of the
big problems this causes is that in the software case its easy to make them
extremely broad or even use them to "bracket" enemy patents to stop the
opposition
patent being usable
An 8 old year US child who re-implements a patented technique in visual basic for
a school class can be sued for it, even if they've never seen or known about it
before.
4:42 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 15:18, Alan Cox wrote:
An 8 old year US child who re-implements a patented technique in visual basic for
a school class can be sued for it, even if they've never seen or known about it
before.
And hopefully sent to bed without dinner for breaking the backbone of
American commerce. Are there no computer work houses for these 8 year
old brats who willy nilly break patents?
Bah Humbug
--
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Los Alamos National Lab CCN-5 Sched 5/40 PH: 4-0645
Ta-03 SM-1498 MailStop B255 DP 10S Los Alamos, NM 87545
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10:57 a.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 16:50, Martin Mewes wrote:
That's not the point.
Kernel-Support goes for incorporating a GPLed kind of NTFS-reading.
Are you really sure that Mandrake or SuSE gave money to M$ in order to
put this into their distro?
Being based in the US, Red Hat has to worry about US patents.
The other distros you mentioned are both based in Europe.
It'll be interesting to see how the situation changes with the arrival
of European software patents.
Dave
11:07 a.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
Le ven 19/12/2003 à 17:57, Dave Jones a écrit :
It'll be interesting to see how the situation changes with the
arrival
of European software patents.
It isn't clear that a lot of the stuff that is patented in the US can be
here. Wait and see.
Cheers
Tony Grant
--
www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit
1:06 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
(OT political rant)
On Fri, 2003-12-19 at 17:57, Dave Jones wrote:
Being based in the US, Red Hat has to worry about US patents.
The other distros you mentioned are both based in Europe.
It'll be interesting to see how the situation changes with the arrival
of European software patents.
"be interesting" is not the way I would be put it, I'd
call it "sad and unfortunate".
Current europarl has been convinced that software patents
are a bad idea, the currently voted directive text is
unambiguous about the rejection of software patents
(that's the first time the europarl reversed to this
level a text written by big industry lobbies).
Pro patent activists are waiting for the renewal of the europarl
to try again to pass legalization of software patents.
If they fail a second time, that's the end of software
patents in Europe, and a hell of a great day for free software.
Did Red Hat support the fight against software patents in Europe?
If software patents pass in Europe, that's the end of Red Hat
in the USA since it will open the patent trials floodgate
and there's not one package shipped by Red Hat which
is free of software patent claims (or any piece
of software anyway...).
Laurent
3:57 p.m.
New subject: Kernel 2.6 options that should be used on Fedora Core 2
On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 04:57:47PM +0000, Dave Jones wrote:
> That's not the point.
> Kernel-Support goes for incorporating a GPLed kind of NTFS-reading.
> Are you really sure that Mandrake or SuSE gave money to M$ in order to
> put this into their distro?
Being based in the US, Red Hat has to worry about US patents.
The other distros you mentioned are both based in Europe.
SuSE is now a division of Novell
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13 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
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Alan Cox -
Chris Adams -
Dave Jones -
hutuworm -
Laurent GUERBY -
Martin Mewes -
Philip Balister -
Stephen Smoogen -
Tom Callaway -
tony -
Xose Vazquez Perez