(i don't see any of these posts thus far in 2020, so perhaps they've fallen out of vogue? i'm merely blindly complying with the instructions at [0]).
hello there in RPM land! i'm a longtime linux user/developer. my first Linux install was RedHat 5.1 in the summer of 1998, and i've been Free ever since. i primarily run Debian and Arch these days, but do some RHEL work professionally, and am very interested in ensuring my software runs on rawhide and friends.
my immediate motivation for joining the Fedora community is packaging up a recent library of mine, "notcurses", best summarized as a baby of ncurses and ffmpeg [1]. there's a demo here [2] that you might find entertaining. i've written a book which is available for purchase [3] or free download [4]. i've spoken with Mssr. David Cantrell, a fellow Yellow Jacket, and believe in him to have secured a sponsor.
i'd then like to look into getting my disk-management tool "growlight" and perhaps my network security recon tool "omphalos" into rawhide. more than that, i hope to become more expert with this family of Linuxes.
hack on! --nick
[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers [1] https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Notcurses [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H1WkopWJNM&feature=youtu.be [3] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086PNVNC9 [4] https://nick-black.com/htp-notcurses.pdf
Hello!
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 7:21 AM Nick Black dank@qemfd.net wrote:
(i don't see any of these posts thus far in 2020, so perhaps they've fallen out of vogue? i'm merely blindly complying with the instructions at [0]).
hello there in RPM land! i'm a longtime linux user/developer. my first Linux install was RedHat 5.1 in the summer of 1998, and i've been Free ever since. i primarily run Debian and Arch these days, but do some RHEL work professionally, and am very interested in ensuring my software runs on rawhide and friends.
my immediate motivation for joining the Fedora community is packaging up a recent library of mine, "notcurses", best summarized as a baby of ncurses and ffmpeg [1]. there's a demo here [2] that you might find entertaining. i've written a book which is available for purchase [3] or free download [4]. i've spoken with Mssr. David Cantrell, a fellow Yellow Jacket, and believe in him to have secured a sponsor.
Ok, well let me know if you need a sponsor. I generally prefer CMake based projects anyway :)
So the only problem I see is that notcurses depends on ffmpeg, which is not allowed in Fedora. I see it's technically "optional", but I wonder about the usefulness of the resultant package without it.
It's technically possible to be sponsored at RPM Fusion first (I was) but it's not preferred. Perhaps one of your other projects could be submitted here first?
Thanks, Richard
Richard Shaw left as an exercise for the reader:
So the only problem I see is that notcurses depends on ffmpeg, which is not allowed in Fedora. I see it's technically "optional", but I wonder about the usefulness of the resultant package without it.
ooh, I was unaware of this. FFmpeg is only used for decoding/scaling images and video. An NCURSES-like level of functionality is possible without it, one which will still benefit from e.g. RGB color and multithreading safety.
I've been considering throwing another image-decoding backend into the project, as FFmpeg draws in a huge dependency chain on Debian as well. What's the preferred "kitchen sink" image decoder these days? libimagemagick? What's recommended for Fedora/Rawhide, if I ideally want to:
1) throw a file/memory buffer at the lib without having to know anything about image format, 2) get 24-bit RGB or 32-bit RGBA back, and 3) have it handle scaling?
It's technically possible to be sponsored at RPM Fusion first (I was) but it's not preferred. Perhaps one of your other projects could be submitted here first?
I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Do you have a page I can reference? Thanks!
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 7:46 AM Nick Black dankamongmen@gmail.com wrote:
Richard Shaw left as an exercise for the reader:
So the only problem I see is that notcurses depends on ffmpeg, which is
not
allowed in Fedora. I see it's technically "optional", but I wonder about the usefulness of the resultant package without it.
ooh, I was unaware of this. FFmpeg is only used for decoding/scaling images and video. An NCURSES-like level of functionality is possible without it, one which will still benefit from e.g. RGB color and multithreading safety.
Up to you which way to go... I don't see packaging it in RPM Fusion as a problem. I would think most people who would be interested in this package would likely not have a problem enabling RPM Fusion.
I've been considering throwing another image-decoding backend
into the project, as FFmpeg draws in a huge dependency chain on Debian as well. What's the preferred "kitchen sink" image decoder these days? libimagemagick? What's recommended for Fedora/Rawhide, if I ideally want to:
- throw a file/memory buffer at the lib without having to know anything about image format,
- get 24-bit RGB or 32-bit RGBA back, and
- have it handle scaling?
The best candidate I can think of that would at least handle 2 and 3 would be OpenImageIO (which I maintain for Fedora). I'm not an expert at using it though, but it is a dependency for Blender for Cycles rendering.
It's well maintained and the author is very helpful and responds to questions quickly via the mailing list. It in combination with OpenColorIO (which I also maintain) have been used in production of several animated movies so you know it's very robust.
It's technically possible to be sponsored at RPM Fusion first (I was) but
it's not preferred. Perhaps one of your other projects could be submitted here first?
I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Do you have a page I can reference? Thanks!
Unlike Debian, Fedora is hosted in the US so RPM Fusion exists to package programs with patent/licensing issues (rpmfusion-free) including binary blobs like the NVidia drivers (rpmfusion-nonfree).
Only fully FOSS without patent or licences issues can be packaged in Fedora.
Thanks, Richard
Richard Shaw left as an exercise for the reader:
Up to you which way to go... I don't see packaging it in RPM Fusion as a problem. I would think most people who would be interested in this package would likely not have a problem enabling RPM Fusion.
So, if you've seen the demo, that's not really at all the intended usage. The main goal is to facilitate really attractive versions of things like GTop, htop, s-tui, etc. I'd written some very substantial NCURSES programs, and found the process unpleasant and the results wanting. The primary goal was making things like
https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Growlight and https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Omphalos
look better and be easier to hack on. Neither, you'll note, uses fancy images or video :). So since this is primarily intended as a library fit for arbitrary systems applications, I'd probably want to aim for the "core" repo (assuming that core repo packages can only dep on projects in the core repo).
Now, a "notcurses-noffmpeg" version in Core and a "notcurses+ffmpeg" in Fusion seems reasonable. Is this kind of thing ever done?
It's well maintained and the author is very helpful and responds to questions quickly via the mailing list. It in combination with OpenColorIO (which I also maintain) have been used in production of several animated movies so you know it's very robust.
I remember being impressed by OpenImageIO when I last looked at it (2013 or so). I'll take a look into it, thanks!
Unlike Debian, Fedora is hosted in the US so RPM Fusion exists to package programs with patent/licensing issues (rpmfusion-free) including binary blobs like the NVidia drivers (rpmfusion-nonfree). Only fully FOSS without patent or licences issues can be packaged in Fedora.
Got it, so very similar to the "main" vs "non-free" split in Debian, except it looks like FFmpeg ended up on the wrong side of the divide in Fedora :).
It looks like GStreamer is in Core, and that would give me video decoding, which would be nice to retain.
On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 09:03:54AM -0400, Nick Black wrote:
Richard Shaw left as an exercise for the reader:
Up to you which way to go... I don't see packaging it in RPM Fusion as a problem. I would think most people who would be interested in this package would likely not have a problem enabling RPM Fusion.
So, if you've seen the demo, that's not really at all the intended usage. The main goal is to facilitate really attractive versions of things like GTop, htop, s-tui, etc. I'd written some very substantial NCURSES programs, and found the process unpleasant and the results wanting. The primary goal was making things like
https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Growlight and https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Omphalos
look better and be easier to hack on. Neither, you'll note, uses fancy images or video :). So since this is primarily intended as a library fit for arbitrary systems applications, I'd probably want to aim for the "core" repo (assuming that core repo packages can only dep on projects in the core repo).
Now, a "notcurses-noffmpeg" version in Core and a "notcurses+ffmpeg" in Fusion seems reasonable. Is this kind of thing ever done?
That's kind of clunky, IMHO. Splitting out the ffmpeg support as a loadable runtime module like you see with gstreamer and gdk-pixbuf would be easier to package and split between repos. That might necessitate splitting out the ffmpeg functionality as a separate source repo. Or at least release notcurses and notcurses-ffmpeg separately.
It's well maintained and the author is very helpful and responds to questions quickly via the mailing list. It in combination with OpenColorIO (which I also maintain) have been used in production of several animated movies so you know it's very robust.
I remember being impressed by OpenImageIO when I last looked at it (2013 or so). I'll take a look into it, thanks!
Unlike Debian, Fedora is hosted in the US so RPM Fusion exists to package programs with patent/licensing issues (rpmfusion-free) including binary blobs like the NVidia drivers (rpmfusion-nonfree). Only fully FOSS without patent or licences issues can be packaged in Fedora.
Got it, so very similar to the "main" vs "non-free" split in Debian, except it looks like FFmpeg ended up on the wrong side of the divide in Fedora :).
It looks like GStreamer is in Core, and that would give me video decoding, which would be nice to retain.
-- nick black -=- https://www.nick-black.com to make an apple pie from scratch, you need first invent a universe. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Mon, 6 Apr 2020 09:03:54 -0400 Nick Black dankamongmen@gmail.com wrote:
Now, a "notcurses-noffmpeg" version in Core and a "notcurses+ffmpeg" in Fusion seems reasonable. Is this kind of thing ever done?
I think this is still true for audacity, mplayer, and chromium so they get patented video codec support. Before mpeg was completely off patent, there were other audio applications where this happened, with the rpmfusion version adding support for mp3.
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 8:03 AM Nick Black dankamongmen@gmail.com wrote:
Richard Shaw left as an exercise for the reader:
Up to you which way to go... I don't see packaging it in RPM Fusion as a problem. I would think most people who would be interested in this
package
would likely not have a problem enabling RPM Fusion.
So, if you've seen the demo, that's not really at all the intended usage. The main goal is to facilitate really attractive versions of things like GTop, htop, s-tui, etc. I'd written some very substantial NCURSES programs, and found the process unpleasant and the results wanting. The primary goal was making things like
https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Growlight and https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Omphalos
look better and be easier to hack on. Neither, you'll note, uses fancy images or video :). So since this is primarily intended as a library fit for arbitrary systems applications, I'd probably want to aim for the "core" repo (assuming that core repo packages can only dep on projects in the core repo).
Now, a "notcurses-noffmpeg" version in Core and a "notcurses+ffmpeg" in Fusion seems reasonable. Is this kind of thing ever done?
Yes, there's a number of examples but audacity and sox are two. What we do at RPM Fusion is create a new package there that depends on the package in Fedora and either append -freeworld (just patent issues, like ffmpeg which are in the free repo), or append -nonfree for packages that depend on "free as in beer" instead of "free as in speech" libraries.
There are a few requirements though to make this work (and I'm not an expert here so correct me if I'm wrong!) 1. The library needs to be dlopen()'ed from the main package so it'll still function without the "extra" packages from RPM Fusion. 2. All the bits common to the main package need to be excluded from the RPM Fusion package since we can't (and don't want to) have redunded files in the package. This may look like "libnotcurses-ffmpeg.so.<soname}" which would be the only payload in the RPM Fusion -freeworld package.
It looks like GStreamer is in Core, and that would give me video
decoding, which would be nice to retain.
Yup! Only the bits that NEED to go into the RPM Fusion -freeworld package would be included.
Thanks, Richard
Richard Shaw left as an exercise for the reader:
Yes, there's a number of examples but audacity and sox are two. What we do at RPM Fusion is create a new package there that depends on the package in Fedora and either append -freeworld (just patent issues, like ffmpeg which are in the free repo), or append -nonfree for packages that depend on "free as in beer" instead of "free as in speech" libraries.
There are a few requirements though to make this work (and I'm not an expert here so correct me if I'm wrong!)
- The library needs to be dlopen()'ed from the main package so it'll still
function without the "extra" packages from RPM Fusion. 2. All the bits common to the main package need to be excluded from the RPM Fusion package since we can't (and don't want to) have redunded files in the package. This may look like "libnotcurses-ffmpeg.so.<soname}" which would be the only payload in the RPM Fusion -freeworld package.
This is exactly how I intend to structure my "notcurses-minimal" for Debian, so it oughtn't be much extra work, excellent:
https://github.com/dankamongmen/notcurses/issues/339
Alright, I'll look into this. BTW, while I've read the Packaging Guidelines at https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/, there seem to be some operational details that I'm missing. For instance, it seems I need file a bug once I have my source and binary RPMs -- where can I find details on the necessary information in that bug? Sorry if I've overlooked it :/.
On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:20:47AM -0400, Nick Black wrote:
hello there in RPM land! i'm a longtime linux user/developer. my first Linux install was RedHat 5.1 in the summer of 1998, and i've been Free ever since.
Hey hey, it's a small world. :)
- Solomon
On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:20:47AM -0400, Nick Black wrote:
(i don't see any of these posts thus far in 2020, so perhaps they've fallen out of vogue? i'm merely blindly complying with the instructions at [0]).
hello there in RPM land! i'm a longtime linux user/developer. my first Linux install was RedHat 5.1 in the summer of 1998, and i've been Free ever since. i primarily run Debian and Arch these days, but do some RHEL work professionally, and am very interested in ensuring my software runs on rawhide and friends.
my immediate motivation for joining the Fedora community is packaging up a recent library of mine, "notcurses", best summarized as a baby of ncurses and ffmpeg [1]. there's a demo here [2] that you might find entertaining. i've written a book which is available for purchase [3] or free download [4]. i've spoken with Mssr. David Cantrell, a fellow Yellow Jacket, and believe in him to have secured a sponsor.
Greetings and welcome!
i'd then like to look into getting my disk-management tool "growlight" and perhaps my network security recon tool "omphalos" into rawhide. more than that, i hope to become more expert with this family of Linuxes.
hack on! --nick
[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers [1] https://nick-black.com/dankwiki/index.php/Notcurses [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H1WkopWJNM&feature=youtu.be [3] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086PNVNC9 [4] https://nick-black.com/htp-notcurses.pdf
-- nick black -=- https://www.nick-black.com to make an apple pie from scratch, you need first invent a universe. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org