Developing Fedora Derivative distro yum "priority" question

[Mark]

Hey,

First of all i hope this is the right place to ask this.

Imagine that i want to make a Fedora Derivative distro and add in
packages that fedora has only than with other things in it.. for
example k3b but than with ffmpeg support (something i can do because i
don't live in the us but fedora can't because of possible us law
restrictions?) how would i do that in a Fedora Derivative? i mean.. if
i type: "yum -y install k3b" and the version number of the fedora k3b
package is higher/newer than the version in my repository than the one
from fedora is being installed/updated.

Now i could of cause add exclude=k3b in the fedora.repo file but that
exclude list would get quite large with a full distro and yum would
get alot slower but it would prevent fedora files from installing and
allow my files to be installed. or is there some "priority" setting in
yum?

With priority i mean this:
fedora.repo has: k3b-5.5.5
mark.repo has k3b-4.4.4 but has the priority over all other .repo
files and this one gets installed. The yum manual doesn't say anything
about this. the closest is --exclude

is something like that available?

I hope that it's clear what i try to ask.
(for now) i don't have the intention to make a distro of my own but
who knows how the future looks ^_^

[Seth Vidal]

On Thu, 2007-08-30 at 22:54 +0200, Mark wrote:
>  Hey,
>  
>  First of all i hope this is the right place to ask this.
>  
>  Imagine that i want to make a Fedora Derivative distro and add in
>  packages that fedora has only than with other things in it.. for
>  example k3b but than with ffmpeg support (something i can do because i
>  don't live in the us but fedora can't because of possible us law
>  restrictions?) how would i do that in a Fedora Derivative? i mean.. if
>  i type: "yum -y install k3b" and the version number of the fedora k3b
>  package is higher/newer than the version in my repository than the one
>  from fedora is being installed/updated.
>  
>  Now i could of cause add exclude=k3b in the fedora.repo file but that
>  exclude list would get quite large with a full distro and yum would
>  get alot slower but it would prevent fedora files from installing and
>  allow my files to be installed. or is there some "priority" setting in
>  yum?
>  
>  With priority i mean this:
>  fedora.repo has: k3b-5.5.5
>  mark.repo has k3b-4.4.4 but has the priority over all other .repo
>  files and this one gets installed. The yum manual doesn't say anything
>  about this. the closest is --exclude
>  
>  is something like that available?
>  
>  I hope that it's clear what i try to ask.
>  (for now) i don't have the intention to make a distro of my own but
>  who knows how the future looks ^_^ 
look at the priority plugin for yum.

-sv

[Mark]

Thanx for that, seth. i couldn't find anything like it.
More info for that plugin (in case anyone wants to know more about it)
http://wiki.centos.org/PackageManagement/Yum/Priorities

And another question.
how about law stuff.. lets still imagine that k3b package but than
with ffmpeg.. will that be hosted on the fedora servers.. or better..
can Fedora Derivatives be hosted on the fedora servers?

[Tom Callaway]

On Thu, 2007-08-30 at 23:17 +0200, Mark wrote:
>  Thanx for that, seth. i couldn't find anything like it.
>  More info for that plugin (in case anyone wants to know more about it)
>  http://wiki.centos.org/PackageManagement/Yum/Priorities
>  
>  And another question.
>  how about law stuff.. lets still imagine that k3b package but than
>  with ffmpeg.. will that be hosted on the fedora servers.. or better..
>  can Fedora Derivatives be hosted on the fedora servers? 
If a Fedora Derivative breaks US law, then I can safely say it will not
be hosted on official Fedora hosting.

~spot

[David Zeuthen]

On Thu, 2007-08-30 at 17:38 -0400, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote:
>  On Thu, 2007-08-30 at 23:17 +0200, Mark wrote:
>  > Thanx for that, seth. i couldn't find anything like it.
>  > More info for that plugin (in case anyone wants to know more about it)
>  > http://wiki.centos.org/PackageManagement/Yum/Priorities
>  > 
>  > And another question.
>  > how about law stuff.. lets still imagine that k3b package but than
>  > with ffmpeg.. will that be hosted on the fedora servers.. or better..
>  > can Fedora Derivatives be hosted on the fedora servers?
>  
>  If a Fedora Derivative breaks US law, then I can safely say it will not
>  be hosted on official Fedora hosting. 
Am also pretty sure you can't call it Fedora either nor use the Fedora
artwork (e.g. you need to replace fedora-logos with something else).

(AFAIK the guidelines says that you can only call something Fedora if it
is built only from packages from the Fedora Package Collection.)

       David

[Mark]

Oke clear enough.
And where can we find those guidelines?

[Rex Dieter]

Mark wrote:

>  Oke clear enough.
>  And where can we find those guidelines? 
For now the best info I could find is:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines
and
http://rhold.fedoraproject.org/About/legal/trademarks/guidelines/
in particular,
http://rhold.fedoraproject.org/About/legal/trademarks/guidelines/page5.html

-- Rex

[Douglas McClendon]

Rex Dieter wrote:
>  Mark wrote:
>  
> > Oke clear enough.
> > And where can we find those guidelines?
>  
>  For now the best info I could find is:
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines
>  and
>  http://rhold.fedoraproject.org/About/legal/trademarks/guidelines/
>  in particular,
>  http://rhold.fedoraproject.org/About/legal/trademarks/guidelines/page5.html 

That is WAY COOL! ;)

The one thing missing from that page, is the explicit permission I've 
seen in the past to call your derived work "a derivative of Fedora(tm)" 
or "based on Fedora(tm)".

As opposed to the policy redhat has with centos, i.e. they are stuck 
with referring to "our nameless faceless upstream enterprise vendor".

-dmc

[Rahul Sundaram]

Douglas McClendon wrote:

>  
>  That is WAY COOL! ;)
>  
>  The one thing missing from that page, is the explicit permission I've 
>  seen in the past to call your derived work "a derivative of Fedora(tm)" 
>  or "based on Fedora(tm)". 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution

"You may also not then say that your product "contains Fedora" or is an 
alternate "edition" of Fedora. You may say that your product is "a 
derivative of Fedora" or is "built upon Fedora", but you must make it 
clear that your product is NOT Fedora"

This is based on "fair use" and you don't need explicit permission.


>  As opposed to the policy redhat has with centos, i.e. they are stuck
>
>  with referring to "our nameless faceless upstream enterprise vendor". 
Commercial products tend to have more strict requirements.

Rahul

[Jef Spaleta]

On 8/31/07, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  "You may also not then say that your product "contains
> Fedora" or is an
>  alternate "edition" of Fedora. You may say that your product is "a
>  derivative of Fedora" or is "built upon Fedora", but you must make it
>  clear that your product is NOT Fedora"
>
>  This is based on "fair use" and you don't need explicit permission. 
You know, we should probably consider stating a single preference for
how to communicate this. And make the stated preference easy to find
in the text instead of buried in the middle of a longer paragraph.
For example would we be okay stating something like this.

</begin hypothetical statement: do NOT take out of context>
The Fedora Project would prefer that you use the following text if you
wish to state that your distribution is a derivative of Fedora:

"The <Name of Distribution> distribution is derived in-part from
sources and/or binaries from the Fedora(tm) Project."

We prefer you use this statement because we feel that such a statement
is adequate in preventing potential confusion between Fedora's
offerings and derived works.
</end hypothetical>


I could probably also come up with a paragraph long text that I would
ask derived projects to use in places like an "About" section on their
website, which takes a little more space to clearly delineate the
upstream downstream relationship between such a derived project and
the Fedora Project.

-jef"Still hoping we can come up with a secondary logo mark for all
derived distributions to use to easily show a sibling relationship
across distributions which are making use of Fedora Community
contributions"spaleta

[Rahul Sundaram]

Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>  On 8/31/07, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> > "You may also not then say that your product "contains Fedora" or is
> an
> > alternate "edition" of Fedora. You may say that your product is "a
> > derivative of Fedora" or is "built upon Fedora", but you must make it
> > clear that your product is NOT Fedora"
> >
> > This is based on "fair use" and you don't need explicit permission.
>  
>  You know, we should probably consider stating a single preference for
>  how to communicate this. And make the stated preference easy to find
>  in the text instead of buried in the middle of a longer paragraph. 
Ideally we will have tools that allow you to pass a argument that marks 
a custom spin as a derivative with appropriate text and branding in the 
right places and use the documentation only to compliment the capability 
with these tools.

Rahul

[Jesse Keating]

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:50:08 +0530
Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  Ideally we will have tools that allow you to pass a argument that
>  marks a custom spin as a derivative with appropriate text and
>  branding in the right places and use the documentation only to
>  compliment the capability with these tools. 
Yes, there is some idea of including a generic logos package within
Fedora so that one can be used instead of the branded logos very
easily, and have all the appropriate "based on" whatever language.

-- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours?