The Fedora wiki system sucks

[Richard Shaw]

So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that I
would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got an
incomplete version created:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat

How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag?

Most other systems in Fedora support markdown, and I would be a fan of
that.

Thanks,
Richard

[Tom Hughes]

On 01/08/2020 18:00, Richard Shaw wrote:
>  So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that
> I 
>  would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got 
>  an incomplete version created:
>  
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat
>  
>  How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag? 
It does? It's even spelt <code>..</code> in fact...

Though I suspect <pre>...</pre> is more what you wanted?

Here's the mediawiki documentation:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting#HTML_tags

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (tom(a)compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/

[Richard Shaw]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 12:05 PM Tom Hughes <tom(a)compton.nu&gt; wrote:

>  On 01/08/2020 18:00, Richard Shaw wrote:
>  > So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that I
>  > would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got
>  > an incomplete version created:
>  >
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat
>  >
>  > How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag?
>
>  It does? It's even spelt <code>..</code> in fact...
>
>  Though I suspect <pre>...</pre> is more what you wanted?
>  
Ok, I'll take a look. Thanks. It isn't an option in the builtin editor that
I can find.

Thanks,
Richard

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2020-08-01 at 12:00 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
>  So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that
> I
>  would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got an
>  incomplete version created:
>  
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat
>  
>  How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag? 
Use {{code|}}, <pre>, or just add any number of spaces before each line
of the code segment (even one space works).

>  Most other systems in Fedora support markdown, and I would be a fan
> of
>  that. 
wikitext predates markdown by several years. mediawiki first appeared
in 2001 and wikitext developed along with it, Markdown was invented in
2004. wikitext is quirky because of its age, development history, and
the fact that it's actually more than just markup, it has quite
extensive dynamic capabilities (particularly with extensions like
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions , which we
have in our instance).

If what you're writing falls under the general heading of
'documentation', you might want to write it for docs.fedoraproject.org
rather than the wiki. docs.fp.o is built by a static generator and uses
the ASCIIDoc markup language. See
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-docs/contributing/adding-new-...
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net

[Richard Shaw]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 1:10 PM Adam Williamson <adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  On Sat, 2020-08-01 at 12:00 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
>  > So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that I
>  > would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got an
>  > incomplete version created:
>  >
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat
>  >
>  > How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag?
>
>  Use {{code|}}, <pre>, or just add any number of spaces before each line
>  of the code segment (even one space works).
>  
Yup, <pre> got me going for now.



>  > Most other systems in Fedora support markdown, and I would be a
> fan of
>  > that.
>
>  wikitext predates markdown by several years. mediawiki first appeared
>  in 2001 and wikitext developed along with it, Markdown was invented in
>  2004. wikitext is quirky because of its age, development history, and
>  the fact that it's actually more than just markup, it has quite
>  extensive dynamic capabilities (particularly with extensions like
>  https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions , which we
>  have in our instance).
>  
Yeah, the whole interface does look rather "dated", perhaps it's time to
start looking at a successor?



>  If what you're writing falls under the general heading of
>  'documentation', you might want to write it for docs.fedoraproject.org
>  rather than the wiki. docs.fp.o is built by a static generator and uses
>  the ASCIIDoc markup language. See
>
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-docs/contributing/adding-new-... 

Perhaps... Is docs open? Or is there some process for getting this
approved? I'm heavily making updates right now. I'm somewhat
selfishly documenting it so I remember how I set everything up as I'm sure
I won't remember a year from now :) But figured it's worth documenting for
others as well.

Thanks,
RIchard

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2020-08-01 at 13:18 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
>  On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 1:10 PM Adam Williamson
> <adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  wrote:
>  
>  > On Sat, 2020-08-01 at 12:00 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
>  > > So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that I
>  > > would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got an
>  > > incomplete version created:
>  > > 
>  > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat
>  > > 
>  > > How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag?
>  > 
>  > Use {{code|}}, <pre>, or just add any number of spaces before each line
>  > of the code segment (even one space works).
>  > 
>  
>  Yup, <pre> got me going for now.
>  
>  
>  
>  > > Most other systems in Fedora support markdown, and I would be a fan of
>  > > that.
>  > 
>  > wikitext predates markdown by several years. mediawiki first appeared
>  > in 2001 and wikitext developed along with it, Markdown was invented in
>  > 2004. wikitext is quirky because of its age, development history, and
>  > the fact that it's actually more than just markup, it has quite
>  > extensive dynamic capabilities (particularly with extensions like
>  > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions , which we
>  > have in our instance).
>  > 
>  
>  Yeah, the whole interface does look rather "dated", perhaps it's time to
>  start looking at a successor? 
I don't think there really are any that are particularly more 'modern'
or less quirky than mediawiki. Project wikis in general are going out
of style these days (the infra team would quite like to get rid of
ours, but I won't let them :>) A lot of the reason the wiki is still
around is people (like me...) doing advanced stuff with templates and
ParserFunctions which probably wouldn't be easily transferable to any
other software either.

>  > If what you're writing falls under the general heading of
>  > 'documentation', you might want to write it for docs.fedoraproject.org
>  > rather than the wiki. docs.fp.o is built by a static generator and uses
>  > the ASCIIDoc markup language. See
>  > 
>  > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-docs/contributing/adding-new-...
>  
>  
>  Perhaps... Is docs open? Or is there some process for getting this
>  approved? I'm heavily making updates right now. I'm somewhat
>  selfishly documenting it so I remember how I set everything up as I'm sure
>  I won't remember a year from now :) But figured it's worth documenting for
>  others as well. 
I don't really interact with it much myself, I use the wiki more. So
that page is really all I know. You could contact the docs team on IRC
for more details I guess, if no-one else answers this thread.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net

[Brian (bex) Exelbierd]

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 8:21 PM Richard Shaw <hobbes1069(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 1:10 PM Adam Williamson <adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
> >
> > If what you're writing falls under the general heading of
> > 'documentation', you might want to write it for docs.fedoraproject.org
> > rather than the wiki. docs.fp.o is built by a static generator and uses
> > the ASCIIDoc markup language. See
> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-docs/contributing/adding-new-...
>
>  Perhaps... Is docs open? Or is there some process for getting this approved? I'm
> heavily making updates right now. I'm somewhat selfishly documenting it so I remember
> how I set everything up as I'm sure I won't remember a year from now :) But
> figured it's worth documenting for others as well. 
This sounds like something for the
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/ section, or if you
have enough stuff a dedicated HAM section.  I suggest you start by
submitting PRs to the quick docs repo
(https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs/pull-requests)

regards,

bex

where to add new documentation (and how)

[Matthew Miller]

On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 01:18:39PM -0500, Richard Shaw wrote:
>  Perhaps... Is docs open? Or is there some process for getting this
>  approved? I'm heavily making updates right now. I'm somewhat
>  selfishly documenting it so I remember how I set everything up as I'm sure
>  I won't remember a year from now :) But figured it's worth documenting for
>  others as well. 
I'm not sure what you mean by "open", but tentatively I'm going to say
"yes", because it's part of Fedora. If you want a whole docs section (like
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/diversity-inclusion/ for example), see
here:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-docs/contributing/adding-new-...

However, since doing that is kind of involved and implies a level of
commitment, we have the "Quick Docs" -- that's designed for exactly this
kind of quick HOWTO information. See the repository for this at 
https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/quick-docs

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[retitled] Fedora wiki and code tags

[Robbie Harwood]

Richard Shaw <hobbes1069(a)gmail.com&gt; writes:

>  So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that
> I
>  would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got an
>  incomplete version created:
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat
>
>  How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag?
>
>  Most other systems in Fedora support markdown, and I would be a fan of
>  that.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Richard
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail] 
Hi, there are two documents in the list footer ^ you may wish to
review.

The Fedora wiki didn't just appear magically one day: your colleagues in
Fedora put effort into standing it up and its maintainance, and some
have even worked on mediawiki itself.  Telling us that it "sucks" is not
courteous, polite, considerate, or respectful.  I've suggested a more
friendly subject in my reply.

Thanks,
--Robbie

[retitled] Fedora wiki and code tags

[John M. Harris Jr]

On Monday, August 3, 2020 9:39:19 AM MST Robbie Harwood wrote:
>  Richard Shaw <hobbes1069(a)gmail.com&gt; writes:
>  > So I wanted to document a ham radio related howto, so I decided that I
>  > would make it an extension of the Amateur Radio SIG wiki, and I've got an
>  > incomplete version created:
>  > 
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/AmateurRadio/Howto/Pat
>  > 
>  > How can a wiki not have some kind of <code> tag?
>  > 
>  > Most other systems in Fedora support markdown, and I would be a fan of
>  > that.
>  > 
>  > Thanks,
>  > Richard
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List
>  > Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List
>  > Archives:
>  > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail].o
>  > rg
>  Hi, there are two documents in the list footer ^ you may wish to
>  review.
>  
>  The Fedora wiki didn't just appear magically one day: your colleagues in
>  Fedora put effort into standing it up and its maintainance, and some
>  have even worked on mediawiki itself.  Telling us that it "sucks" is not
>  courteous, polite, considerate, or respectful.  I've suggested a more
>  friendly subject in my reply. 
That somebody doesn't like something doesn't mean that they don't respect 
those who made it.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr.