End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora?

[Sergio Belkin]

Hi,
How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
affect Fedora?

-- 
--
Sergio Belkin
LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org

[Mattia Verga]

I think the official answer to your question is "nothing: Fedora will continue to
provide the development distro upon Centos Stream and then RHEL are built".

My opinion instead is that we have many valuable contributors that are in the Fedora
community because they have CentOS/RHEL servers in some prod environments. If they're
willing to move the prod servers to other distros I don't think they're going to
continue their help in the Fedora community.
Or to be more sarcastic:
- step 1: enter a community to offer help
- step 2: hire the most active users of the community and slowly move them to something
else
- step 3: drop support to the community -- kill the community

Mattia

[Christoph Karl]

Hello!

On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  How does this
> (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  affect Fedora? 
I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
a kind of "Fedora LTS".

Best Regards
Christoph

[Jaroslav Prokop]

Hello,

On 09/12/2020 12:12, Christoph Karl wrote:
>  Hello!
>
>  On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> > How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
> > affect Fedora?
>
>  I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>  At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
>  a kind of "Fedora LTS". 
If I remember correctly and not making it up there was a discussion some 
years back about Fedora LTS.
I think it was dismissed because we had CentOS providing LTS stability. 
But now it does not seem like
we can rely on long term stability. Maybe it's time to revive that 
discussion?

I am starting to get really confused on Fedora's position here. Are we 
anywhere in the pipeline?
Are we prelude for software before it gets on CentOS streams or maybe 
testing grounds for
RHEL if something got proved on the ground of CentsOS streams?

[Ondrej Budai]

Hello!

st 9. 12. 2020 v 12:35 odesílatel Jaroslav Prokop <jar.prokop(a)volny.cz&gt;
napsal:

>  Hello,
>
>  On 09/12/2020 12:12, Christoph Karl wrote:
>  > Hello!
>  >
>  > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  >> How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
>  )
>  >> affect Fedora?
>  >
>  > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>  > At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
>  > a kind of "Fedora LTS".
>
>  If I remember correctly and not making it up there was a discussion some
>  years back about Fedora LTS.
>  I think it was dismissed because we had CentOS providing LTS stability.
>  But now it does not seem like
>  we can rely on long term stability. Maybe it's time to revive that
>  discussion?
>  
Maybe the community can use CentOS Stream as a base for some kind of LTS
distro.


>  I am starting to get really confused on Fedora's position here. Are we
>  anywhere in the pipeline?
>  
RHEL/CentOS Stream is branched out of Fedora.

RHEL and CentOS Stream have a much closer relationship. Someone put it very
nicely: RHEL minor versions are branched off CentOS Stream every 6 months.
It's a bit of oversimplification but it very nicely describes how tight
their relationship is. On the other hand, RHEL/CentOS Stream is branched
off Fedora every 3 years. There's much bigger space for a deviation between
them.

Are we prelude for software before it gets on CentOS streams or maybe
>  testing grounds for
>  RHEL if something got proved on the ground of CentsOS streams?
>
>  _______________________________________________
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Cheers,

Ondřej

[Brian (bex) Exelbierd]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:15 PM Ondrej Budai <obudai(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hello!
>
>  st 9. 12. 2020 v 12:35 odesílatel Jaroslav Prokop <jar.prokop(a)volny.cz&gt; napsal:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > On 09/12/2020 12:12, Christoph Karl wrote:
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> > >> How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
> > >> affect Fedora?
> > >
> > > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
> > > At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
> > > a kind of "Fedora LTS".
> >
> > If I remember correctly and not making it up there was a discussion some
> > years back about Fedora LTS.
> > I think it was dismissed because we had CentOS providing LTS stability.
> > But now it does not seem like
> > we can rely on long term stability. Maybe it's time to revive that
> > discussion?
>
>
>  Maybe the community can use CentOS Stream as a base for some kind of LTS distro.
>
> >
> >
> > I am starting to get really confused on Fedora's position here. Are we
> > anywhere in the pipeline?
>
>
>  RHEL/CentOS Stream is branched out of Fedora.
>
>  RHEL and CentOS Stream have a much closer relationship. Someone put it very nicely: RHEL
> minor versions are branched off CentOS Stream every 6 months. It's a bit of
> oversimplification but it very nicely describes how tight their relationship is. On the
> other hand, RHEL/CentOS Stream is branched off Fedora every 3 years. There's much
> bigger space for a deviation between them. 
Red Hat also specifically mentions Fedora ELN in their FAQ:
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q8

regards,

bex

> > Are we prelude for software before it gets on CentOS streams or maybe
> > testing grounds for
> > RHEL if something got proved on the ground of CentsOS streams?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > Fedora Code of Conduct:
> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Ondřej
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail] 


-- 
Did this email arrive after work for you?  Stop reading it and enjoy
some work/life balance.

Brian "bex" Exelbierd (he/him/his)
Community Business Owner, RHEL Product Management
@bexelbie | http://www.winglemeyer.org
bexelbie(a)redhat.com

[Ralf Corsepius]

On 12/9/20 12:33 PM, Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
>  Hello,
>  
>  On 09/12/2020 12:12, Christoph Karl wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> >> How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
> >> affect Fedora?
> >
> > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
> > At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
> > a kind of "Fedora LTS".
>  
>  If I remember correctly and not making it up there was a discussion some 
>  years back about Fedora LTS. 
Where does the fairy tale of CentOS being a "Fedora LTS" come from?

Fedora and CentOS address completely different audiences and provide 
completely different packages and "features".

>  I am starting to get really confused on Fedora's position here.
So am I. Actually I do not see any common ground for Fedora and CentOS.

>  Are we 
>  anywhere in the pipeline? 
Actually, I do not care. I support Fedora, RHEL is
RHAT's business and 
so is its puppet/clone CentOS.

Ralf

[Marius Schwarz]

Am 09.12.20 um 12:33 schrieb Jaroslav Prokop:
>  I am starting to get really confused on Fedora's position here. Are we 
>  anywhere in the pipeline?
>  Are we prelude for software before it gets on CentOS streams or maybe 
>  testing grounds for
>  RHEL if something got proved on the ground of CentsOS streams?
>  
Can't we just be Fedora?

Best regards,
Marius Schwarz

[Peter Robinson]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:12 AM Christoph Karl <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt; wrote:
>  Hello!
>
>  On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  > How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  > affect Fedora?
>
>  I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS. 
Why? What would it provide that CentOS Stream doesn't?

> At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
> a kind of "Fedora LTS".
>
> Best Regards
> Christoph
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]

[Sergio Belkin]

El mié, 9 dic 2020 a las 9:28, Peter Robinson (<pbrobinson(a)gmail.com>)
escribió:

>  On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:12 AM Christoph Karl
> <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  > Hello!
>  >
>  > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  > > How does this (
>  https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  > > affect Fedora?
>  >
>  > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>
>  Why? What would it provide that CentOS Stream doesn't?
>
>  > At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
>  > a kind of "Fedora LTS".
>  >
>  > Best Regards
>  > Christoph
>  
Cutting-edge features?

-- 
--
Sergio Belkin
LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org

[Josh Boyer]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:55 AM Sergio Belkin <sebelk(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  El mié, 9 dic 2020 a las 9:28, Peter Robinson (<pbrobinson(a)gmail.com>) escribió:
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:12 AM Christoph Karl <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt; wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> > > > How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
> > > > affect Fedora?
> > >
> > > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
> >
> > Why? What would it provide that CentOS Stream doesn't?
> >
> > > At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
> > > a kind of "Fedora LTS".
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > > Christoph
>
>
>  Cutting-edge features? 
That's actually really hard.  Every cutting-edge feature one person
wants is superfluous and risky to a different person.  If you want an
update of foo to the latest version, it's likely to break someone else
that was perfectly happy with the current version.  There's a reason
why CentOS, RHEL, and even Ubuntu LTS aren't really targeted at
cutting edge feature work.  A Fedora LTS would run into all the same
problems.

That being said, there *are* opportunities to provide that on CentOS
Stream (or RHEL).  We have EPEL, we have modularity, etc.  If the OS
itself isn't providing the features you need, we have projects that
can fill those gaps while leaving the OS itself at the solid, stable
base it needs to be.  One thing I'm excited to see is CentOS Stream
SIGs that take Stream and build out features in a more comprehensive
(or even invasive) way to meet some of those use cases.

josh

[Sergio Belkin]

El jue, 10 dic 2020 a las 9:52, Josh Boyer (<jwboyer(a)fedoraproject.org>)
escribió:

>  On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:55 AM Sergio Belkin <sebelk(a)gmail.com&gt;
> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > El mié, 9 dic 2020 a las 9:28, Peter Robinson (<pbrobinson(a)gmail.com>)
>  escribió:
>  >>
>  >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:12 AM Christoph Karl <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt;
>  wrote:
>  >> >
>  >> > Hello!
>  >> >
>  >> > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  >> > > How does this (
>  https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  >> > > affect Fedora?
>  >> >
>  >> > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>  >>
>  >> Why? What would it provide that CentOS Stream doesn't?
>  >>
>  >> > At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
>  >> > a kind of "Fedora LTS".
>  >> >
>  >> > Best Regards
>  >> > Christoph
>  >
>  >
>  > Cutting-edge features?
>
>  That's actually really hard.  Every cutting-edge feature one person
>  wants is superfluous and risky to a different person.  If you want an
>  update of foo to the latest version, it's likely to break someone else
>  that was perfectly happy with the current version.  There's a reason
>  why CentOS, RHEL, and even Ubuntu LTS aren't really targeted at
>  cutting edge feature work.  A Fedora LTS would run into all the same
>  problems.
>
>  That being said, there *are* opportunities to provide that on CentOS
>  Stream (or RHEL).  We have EPEL, we have modularity, etc.  If the OS
>  itself isn't providing the features you need, we have projects that
>  can fill those gaps while leaving the OS itself at the solid, stable
>  base it needs to be.  One thing I'm excited to see is CentOS Stream
>  SIGs that take Stream and build out features in a more comprehensive
>  (or even invasive) way to meet some of those use cases.
>
>  josh
>  
I think in features like btrfs or zram...
-- 
--
Sergio Belkin
LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org

[Josh Boyer]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 8:12 AM Sergio Belkin <sebelk(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  El jue, 10 dic 2020 a las 9:52, Josh Boyer (<jwboyer(a)fedoraproject.org>) escribió:
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 7:55 AM Sergio Belkin <sebelk(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > El mié, 9 dic 2020 a las 9:28, Peter Robinson (<pbrobinson(a)gmail.com>)
> escribió:
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:12 AM Christoph Karl <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt;
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Hello!
> > >> >
> > >> > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> > >> > > How does this
> (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
> > >> > > affect Fedora?
> > >> >
> > >> > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
> > >>
> > >> Why? What would it provide that CentOS Stream doesn't?
> > >>
> > >> > At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
> > >> > a kind of "Fedora LTS".
> > >> >
> > >> > Best Regards
> > >> > Christoph
> > >
> > >
> > > Cutting-edge features?
> >
> > That's actually really hard.  Every cutting-edge feature one person
> > wants is superfluous and risky to a different person.  If you want an
> > update of foo to the latest version, it's likely to break someone else
> > that was perfectly happy with the current version.  There's a reason
> > why CentOS, RHEL, and even Ubuntu LTS aren't really targeted at
> > cutting edge feature work.  A Fedora LTS would run into all the same
> > problems.
> >
> > That being said, there *are* opportunities to provide that on CentOS
> > Stream (or RHEL).  We have EPEL, we have modularity, etc.  If the OS
> > itself isn't providing the features you need, we have projects that
> > can fill those gaps while leaving the OS itself at the solid, stable
> > base it needs to be.  One thing I'm excited to see is CentOS Stream
> > SIGs that take Stream and build out features in a more comprehensive
> > (or even invasive) way to meet some of those use cases.
> >
> > josh
>
>
>  I think in features like btrfs or zram... 
Yep, and a CentOS Stream SIG around those would be really neat to see!

josh

[Jaroslav Prokop]

Hello,

On 09/12/2020 13:28, Peter Robinson wrote:
>  On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:12 AM Christoph Karl
> <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt; wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> >> How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
> >> affect Fedora?
> > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>  Why? What would it provide that CentOS Stream doesn't? 
It would provide with what is lost with CentOS Linux.
Let's entertain an example:
I would like to setup a home server with some locally hosted services, 
but I wouldn't like to update it to new system with new software every 
year just to get security updates.
That is for me use case that would benefit from LTS. I would've used 
CentOS Linux but that won't be enough because CentOS 8
is EOL roughly next year. I could use Fedora server but that has too 
quick a release cycle and I don't have the time to check
that everything is running right so often. Instead I would like LTS 
system that I comfortable with, which is from the RHEL ecosystem.
But I don't see sense in running paid RHEL instance that would be only 
serve as my hobby project server.
So with those out of the picture I would probably have to settle for 
something like Ubuntu LTS.
However that is not the solution I'd like to see.

If I understood the announcement, it would be a kind of CentOS streams 
is rolling release or a release with short
release interval. That does not make my job much easier as someone who 
just sets up services and leaves it running.
While I personally think that Fedora should uphold mainly its philosophy 
of being the
"pioneer" of new releases, I feel that then I would miss a production 
ready, free and long term supported system
from the ecosystem of RHEL/Fedora. But apparently some already took on 
this task [0].


Regards,
Jarek

[0] https://github.com/hpcng/rocky

>
>> At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
>> a kind of "Fedora LTS".
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Christoph
>> _______________________________________________
>> devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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[Damian Ivanov]

All this sounds cool, rolling release FTW!
On that topic (rolling release) I have another suggestion - please
fork the thread if that's too OT.
Rawhide is good so far but is not suitable as a productive rolling
release because some packages have debug flags that slow the system
down
(I have measured it and rawhide is always significantly slower on my
devices). Maybe provide a rolling release fedora as well (which is
suitable for non-debug systems).

Regards,
Damian

[Jared K. Smith]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:57 AM Damian Ivanov <damianatorrpm(a)gmail.com&gt;
wrote:

>  Maybe provide a rolling release fedora as well (which is
>  suitable for non-debug systems).
>  
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RawhideKernelNodebug

-Jared

[Damian Ivanov]

> > Maybe provide a rolling release fedora as well (which is
> > suitable for non-debug systems).
>
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RawhideKernelNodebug
>
>  -Jared 
Thanks, I thought to recall that it's not just the kernel.
Also mentioned in the wiki link is that it doesn't work with secureboot.
I was hoping for something can take it up with opensuse tumbleweed.

[Igor Savlook]

On 2020-12-09 16:46, Damian Ivanov wrote:
>  All this sounds cool, rolling release FTW!
>  On that topic (rolling release) I have another suggestion - please
>  fork the thread if that's too OT.
>  Rawhide is good so far but is not suitable as a productive rolling
>  release because some packages have debug flags that slow the system
>  down
>  (I have measured it and rawhide is always significantly slower on my
>  devices). Maybe provide a rolling release fedora as well (which is
>  suitable for non-debug systems).
>  
>  Regards,
>  Damian
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>   
What packages have debug flags?

[Ben Cotton]

(Just to be clear before I start, I was not involved in the decision
process for yesterday's announcement.)

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:29 PM Sergio Belkin <sebelk(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>  How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/) affect Fedora?
The short version: it doesn't.

The long version: CentOS Stream is downstream of Fedora. Where there
used to be a big leap between Fedora and RHEL, CentOS Stream provides
a bridge. A bridge that allows community contribution to RHEL.

Think of it this way:
Current Fedora -> RHEL 9
Current CentOS Stream -> RHEL 8.4

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 6:16 AM Christoph Karl <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt; wrote:
>  I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>  At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
>  a kind of "Fedora LTS".
>  
This comes up every so often, but I don't see it happening. If nothing
else, you're putting a maintenance burden on every package maintainer
to continue providing updates for whatever definition of "long-term"
we come up with. As many maintainers contribute on a volunteer basis
(even many of us who are Red Hat employees don't maintain Fedora
packages as part of our day job), this is a big burden to ask. We
already see signs of the package maintenance burden becoming too high,
this would only make it worse.

There's also the question of fit. While it's not impossible to be
leading edge and provide long-term support at the same time, it's
certainly not easy. Beyond package maintenance, there would be
additional demands on QA, websites, release engineering, etc to
provide a consistent experience over a long-term support lifecycle.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:10 AM Jaroslav Prokop <jar.prokop(a)volny.cz&gt; wrote:
>  While I personally think that Fedora should uphold mainly its philosophy
>  of being the
>  "pioneer" of new releases, I feel that then I would miss a production
>  ready, free and long term supported system
>  from the ecosystem of RHEL/Fedora. 
I agree wholeheartedly. CentOS Linux filled a valuable niche in the
ecosystem. But Fedora is not the place to replace it.

-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis

[Adam Williamson]

On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 14:07 +0100, Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
>  
>  If I understood the announcement, it would be a kind of CentOS streams 
>  is rolling release or a release with short
>  release interval. That does not make my job much easier as someone who 
>  just sets up services and leaves it running. 
It's a rolling release *of a stable RHEL branch*. You're not getting
radical new changes if you run CentOS Stream; you're just getting the
changes you'd usually get in RHEL stable point releases (e.g. 8.1, 8.2
etc) but getting them early and as they are produced, rather than in
periodic lumps).

For some folks / maintenance styles this might still be an issue, but
it should work OK in quite a lot of cases. It's not like you're running
Rawhide.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net

[Gary Buhrmaster]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 4:52 PM Adam Williamson
<adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:

>  For some folks / maintenance styles this might still be an issue,
> but
>  it should work OK in quite a lot of cases. It's not like you're running
>  Rawhide. 
For those that want the equivalent of a point release,
I would think they should be able to write an ansible
script to upgrade to the point release of packages
that EL 8.x ship with.

A little more work (for someone) to maintain, but I
would not be surprised if someone (or a community)
decided to take it one.

[Christoph Karl]

Hello!

On 09.12.20 18:08, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>  For those that want the equivalent of a point release,
>  I would think they should be able to write an ansible
>  script to upgrade to the point release of packages
>  that EL 8.x ship with. 
Just had the same idea. ;-)

So if I only upgrade to the point releases,
I have more or less a EL system.

For me this is a sufficient replacement for CentOS.

Best Regards
Christoph

[Robin Opletal]

I think this wouldn't be that much of a problem - what I think is bad is
that CentOS Stream security updates aren't going to come before RHEL's
will, and they will essentially be backported, at least as I understood
it.

Correct me if I am wrong

On Wed Dec 9, 2020 at 5:52 PM CET, Adam Williamson wrote:
> It's a rolling release *of a stable RHEL branch*. You're not getting
> radical new changes if you run CentOS Stream; you're just getting the
> changes you'd usually get in RHEL stable point releases (e.g. 8.1, 8.2
> etc) but getting them early and as they are produced, rather than in
> periodic lumps).

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 04:45, Robin Opletal <me(a)robinopletal.com&gt; wrote:

>  I think this wouldn't be that much of a problem - what I think is
> bad is
>  that CentOS Stream security updates aren't going to come before RHEL's
>  will, and they will essentially be backported, at least as I understood
>  it.
>
>  
a) CentOS regular security updates don't come before RHEL's so there is no
change here.

Here is what happens currently for regular CentOS.

RHEL engineers do all their work internally and push their changes to a
CDN. Customers then get those binaries.
The team which does these pushes then pushes the source code into the
centos look-aside cache and the specs+patches into the git repo.
That team then sends an email to the CentOS admins who then start building
the code. Then this loop begins

for (code is not built){
 build code
if code builds and passes t_functional then break
else { check chain of rebuilds to see if order changed. if yes {break} if
no check to see if more code was needed to be pushed.. get that pushed..
break}
endfor
push the updates to the mirrors for people.


If updates are a long time then the complaints go to the CentOS devels who
will say 'it is ready when it is ready'.

Here is what happens differently with CentOS Stream... not much except that
CentOS Stream is supposed to work and every failed compose, delay, etc is
going to get a lot more media attention.. so no pressure folks (he says to
himself as he goes to make sure that it keeps working).


Correct me if I am wrong
>  On Wed Dec 9, 2020 at 5:52 PM CET, Adam Williamson wrote:
>  > It's a rolling release *of a stable RHEL branch*. You're not getting
>  > radical new changes if you run CentOS Stream; you're just getting the
>  > changes you'd usually get in RHEL stable point releases (e.g. 8.1, 8.2
>  > etc) but getting them early and as they are produced, rather than in
>  > periodic lumps).
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
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>  List Archives:
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>  

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

[Kevin Kofler]

Robin Opletal wrote:
>  I think this wouldn't be that much of a problem - what I think is
> bad is
>  that CentOS Stream security updates aren't going to come before RHEL's
>  will, and they will essentially be backported, at least as I understood
>  it. 
That would be a forward-port then, not a backport.

        Kevin Kofler

[Matthew Miller]

On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 02:07:01PM +0100, Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
>  It would provide with what is lost with CentOS Linux.
>  Let's entertain an example:
>  I would like to setup a home server with some locally hosted
>  services, but I wouldn't like to update it to new system with new
>  software every year just to get security updates. 
[...]
>  "pioneer" of new releases, I feel that then I would miss a
>  production ready, free and long term supported system
>  from the ecosystem of RHEL/Fedora. But apparently some already took 
Take a look at this part of the CentOS FAQ:

  "In the first half of 2021, we will be introducing low- or no-cost
  programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source
  projects and communities, partner ecosystems and an expansion of the use
  cases of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subscription to better
  serve the needs of systems administrators and partner developers. We’ll
  share more details on these initiatives as they become available."
  
  https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10

Those details really have not been worked out, but I expect your use to be
one that's definitely thought of.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Jaroslav Prokop]

On 09/12/2020 20:24, Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 02:07:01PM +0100, Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
> > It would provide with what is lost with CentOS Linux.
> > Let's entertain an example:
> > I would like to setup a home server with some locally hosted
> > services, but I wouldn't like to update it to new system with new
> > software every year just to get security updates.
>  [...]
> > "pioneer" of new releases, I feel that then I would miss a
> > production ready, free and long term supported system
> > from the ecosystem of RHEL/Fedora. But apparently some already took
>  Take a look at this part of the CentOS FAQ:
>
>     "In the first half of 2021, we will be introducing low- or no-cost
>     programs for a variety of use cases, including options for open source
>     projects and communities, partner ecosystems and an expansion of the use
>     cases of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Developer subscription to better
>     serve the needs of systems administrators and partner developers. We’ll
>     share more details on these initiatives as they become available."
>     
>     https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/faq-centos-stream-updates#Q10
>
>  Those details really have not been worked out, but I expect your use to be
>  one that's definitely thought of. 
Thank you for responding!

Looks like my use case should be included and hopefully with good 
options :).

Although the way of communicating it feels a bit unfortunate.
I would at least like to see what kind of initiatives are we talking 
about, what is in consideration.

Jarek.

[Matthew Miller]

On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 08:46:39PM +0100, Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
>  Looks like my use case should be included and hopefully with good
>  options :).
>  
>  Although the way of communicating it feels a bit unfortunate.
>  I would at least like to see what kind of initiatives are we talking
>  about, what is in consideration. 
I know that centos-questions(a)redhat.com is being answered by real people who
are working on planning these programs, so sharing your needs with them
can't hurt.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Jaroslav Prokop]

On 09/12/2020 20:55, Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 08:46:39PM +0100, Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
> > Looks like my use case should be included and hopefully with good
> > options :).
> >
> > Although the way of communicating it feels a bit unfortunate.
> > I would at least like to see what kind of initiatives are we talking
> > about, what is in consideration.
>  I know that centos-questions(a)redhat.com is being answered by real people who
>  are working on planning these programs, so sharing your needs with them
>  can't hurt.
>  
Thanks! I'll do that.

[Kevin Kofler]

Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
>  But apparently some already took on this task [0].
>  [0] https://github.com/hpcng/rocky 
The official website is:
https://rockylinux.org/
(Still somewhat under construction, of course.)

It was started by the original founder of CentOS with the aim of going back 
to the roots of CentOS, the way it worked before Red Hat started their 
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish scheme.

        Kevin Kofler

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2020-12-10 at 03:59 +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
>  Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
>  > But apparently some already took on this task [0].
>  > [0] https://github.com/hpcng/rocky
>  
>  The official website is:
>  https://rockylinux.org/
>  (Still somewhat under construction, of course.)
>  
>  It was started by the original founder of CentOS with the aim of going back 
>  to the roots of CentOS, the way it worked before Red Hat started their 
>  Embrace, Extend, Extinguish scheme. 
Off the record...there really wasn't one. It was an Embrace,
Equivocate, Evacuate policy...
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net

[Jiří Eischmann]

Jaroslav Prokop píše v St 09. 12. 2020 v 14:07 +0100:
>  Hello,
>  
>  On 09/12/2020 13:28, Peter Robinson wrote:
>  > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:12 AM Christoph Karl <pampelmuse(a)gmx.at&gt;
>  > wrote:
>  > > Hello!
>  > > 
>  > > On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  > > > How does this (
>  > > > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  > > > affect Fedora?
>  > > I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>  > Why? What would it provide that CentOS Stream doesn't?
>  
>  It would provide with what is lost with CentOS Linux.
>  Let's entertain an example:
>  I would like to setup a home server with some locally hosted
>  services, 
>  but I wouldn't like to update it to new system with new software
>  every 
>  year just to get security updates. 
I wouldn't be afraid to use Fedora for this. I've been running Fedora
Server ony my personal server with Nextcloud on LAMP and a couple of
other services such as VPN, Wireguard, TUN and it's been really
effortless. I don't remember last time I had any problem. Once 6 months
I do a snapshot and upgrade which has been really smooth. I actually
find it easier than running the same release for 3 years, but then
having to undergo a migration to a new major release. And I still get
to enjoy the latest and greatest.

Jiri

[Gordon Messmer]

On 12/9/20 5:07 AM, Jaroslav Prokop wrote:
>  Instead I would like LTS system that I comfortable with, which is
> from 
>  the RHEL ecosystem.
>  ...
>  If I understood the announcement, it would be a kind of CentOS streams 
>  is rolling release or a release with short
>  release interval. 

The release announcement was confusing, in that it used "rolling 
release" to describe something that doesn't resemble the common 
definition of that term.

CentOS Stream isn't a rolling release.  It will have distinct major 
releases.  It just won't have point releases within those cycles.  
CentOS Stream 8 will just be CentOS Stream 8 for 5 years, and never 
CentOS Stream 8.1, etc.

It's also not going to have short release intervals.  It will be 
released every three years, and maintained for five years.

CentOS Stream has all of the aspects of an "LTS" release, but you will 
not hear Red Hat use that term with respect to CentOS Stream, because 
"support" is the product that Red Hat sells, and there isn't any for 
CentOS Stream.  If you're looking for an rpm-based distribution that's 
self-supported and maintained for longer than a Fedora release, then 
CentOS Stream might be a really good option.

[Matthew Miller]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 12:49:23PM -0800, Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  The release announcement was confusing, in that it used
> "rolling
>  release" to describe something that doesn't resemble the common
>  definition of that term. 
Yeah, that was accidental — written in good faith by someone who doesn't
live and breathe enthusiast Linux distros and didn't anticipate what it
would mean to many people. As I understand it that's actually been edited,
but the damage is done so we're hearing it a lot and it got picked up in the
press.

Everything you say is exactly true.

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Kevin Kofler]

Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  The release announcement was confusing, in that it used
> "rolling
>  release" to describe something that doesn't resemble the common
>  definition of that term.
>  
>  CentOS Stream isn't a rolling release.  It will have distinct major
>  releases.  It just won't have point releases within those cycles.
>  CentOS Stream 8 will just be CentOS Stream 8 for 5 years, and never
>  CentOS Stream 8.1, etc. 
It is still a form of a rolling release though, just one with branches. I 
think it was actually clear to most of the readers that CentOS Stream is not 
Rawhide directly (because then it would be Rawhide, not CentOS Stream), but 
that CentOS Stream 8 is the RHEL 8 branch that was branched from Rawhide at 
some point early in RHEL 8 development and that of course no longer tracks 
Rawhide, but only gets what is intended to land in RHEL 8 at some point. (At 
least to me, this was always clear.)

But even though each CentOS Stream "release" is a stable branch of Rawhide, 
it still in many ways behaves like Rawhide or another rolling release rather 
than like a release. Here in Fedora, we are used to getting lots of updates 
to packages, so we may be fine with such a rolling branch (though from the 
description, I would expect CentOS Stream to be more like Fedora updates-
testing than like Fedora stable updates, or is there already strict RHEL QA 
before something reaches even CentOS Stream?), but many current CentOS users 
have chosen CentOS (rather than Fedora or even a true rolling-release 
distribution such as Arch) exactly because it does NOT work like that.

        Kevin Kofler

[Matthew Miller]

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 12:21:02AM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
>  It is still a form of a rolling release though, just one with
> branches. I 
>  think it was actually clear to most of the readers that CentOS Stream is not 
>  Rawhide directly (because then it would be Rawhide, not CentOS Stream), but 
>  that CentOS Stream 8 is the RHEL 8 branch that was branched from Rawhide at 
>  some point early in RHEL 8 development and that of course no longer tracks 
>  Rawhide, but only gets what is intended to land in RHEL 8 at some point. (At 
>  least to me, this was always clear.) 
I'm glad to hear it, because it definitely was not clear to many, and I was
starting to feel like "many" might be "everyone". :)

>  But even though each CentOS Stream "release" is a stable
> branch of
>  Rawhide, it still in many ways behaves like Rawhide or another rolling
>  release rather than like a release. Here in Fedora, we are used to getting
>  lots of updates to packages, so we may be fine with such a rolling branch
>  (though from the description, I would expect CentOS Stream to be more like
>  Fedora updates- testing than like Fedora stable updates, or is there
>  already strict RHEL QA before something reaches even CentOS Stream?), but 
There is already RHEL QA before it reaches Stream. I can't honestly speak to
how strict it is, and of course people's standards for that will vary.

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 06:39:52PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 12:21:02AM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel
> wrote:
>  > It is still a form of a rolling release though, just one with branches. I 
>  > think it was actually clear to most of the readers that CentOS Stream is not 
>  > Rawhide directly (because then it would be Rawhide, not CentOS Stream), but 
>  > that CentOS Stream 8 is the RHEL 8 branch that was branched from Rawhide at 
>  > some point early in RHEL 8 development and that of course no longer tracks 
>  > Rawhide, but only gets what is intended to land in RHEL 8 at some point. (At 
>  > least to me, this was always clear.)
>  
>  I'm glad to hear it, because it definitely was not clear to many, and I was
>  starting to feel like "many" might be "everyone". :) 
It's confusing if you aren't inside this baseball game I would
imagine...

The diagram on https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/centos-stream-is-continuous-delivery/

I think might help?

https://blog.centos.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/fedora-centos-stream-r...

>  > But even though each CentOS Stream "release" is a
> stable branch of
>  > Rawhide, it still in many ways behaves like Rawhide or another rolling
>  > release rather than like a release. Here in Fedora, we are used to getting
>  > lots of updates to packages, so we may be fine with such a rolling branch
>  > (though from the description, I would expect CentOS Stream to be more like
>  > Fedora updates- testing than like Fedora stable updates, or is there
>  > already strict RHEL QA before something reaches even CentOS Stream?), but
>  
>  There is already RHEL QA before it reaches Stream. I can't honestly speak to
>  how strict it is, and of course people's standards for that will vary. 
https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/how-rhel-is-made/

has some more details.

kevin

[Kevin Kofler]

One more aspect I missed in my previous reply:

Gordon Messmer wrote:
>  CentOS Stream […] [i]s also not going to have short release
> intervals. It
>  will be released every three years, and maintained for five years. 
That is still only half of the 10 years that were originally announced for 
CentOS 8. And it will actually be even shorter for CentOS Stream 8 because 
it was released late:
https://twitter.com/carlwgeorge/status/1337825178705915906
"2019-09-24 to 2024-05-31 (4 years, 8 months)"

The EOL date is even no later (actually, even 1 month earlier!) than for 
CentOS 7, from which everyone was getting told to move away, to the very 
CentOS 8 that is now getting discontinued early.

>  CentOS Stream has all of the aspects of an "LTS" release
Compared to Fedora, definitely. (Fedora is nowhere near LTS, so it is 
trivial to have longer-term support than Fedora.) Compared to other LTS 
distros (e.g., Ubuntu LTS), yes, it's about par. But compared to RHEL, it's 
only half the support timeframe (not even counting the ELS option that costs 
extra, only the standard EOL).

        Kevin Kofler

[Marius Schwarz]

Am 09.12.20 um 12:12 schrieb Christoph Karl:
>  Hello!
>
>  On 09.12.20 04:26, Sergio Belkin wrote:
> > How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
> > affect Fedora?
>
>  I think Fedora now needs some kind of LTS.
>  At least I was planning to support CentOS via EPEL as
>  a kind of "Fedora LTS". 
"Fedora LTS" would be paradox in itself, as Fedora stands for "latest 
stabl" and LTS for "as old as possible" builds.

Best regards,
Marius Schwarz

[Matthew Miller]

On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 12:26:18AM -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  How does this
> (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  affect Fedora? 
I wrote a blog post about this last September and I think it's all still
very true:

  https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-and-centos-stream/

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora?

[Sérgio Basto]

On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 00:26 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  Hi,
>  How does this (
>  https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/) affect
>  Fedora? 
where you read that is the end of centos ?

>  _______________________________________________devel mailing list --
>
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: 
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: 
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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-- 
Sérgio M. B.

CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora?

[Eduard Lucena]

Quite literally here:

"CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021"

Br,

El sáb, 12 dic 2020 a las 12:03, Sérgio Basto (<sergio(a)serjux.com>)
escribió:

>  On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 00:26 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>  How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  affect Fedora?
>
>
>  where you read that is the end of centos ?
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
>  devel mailing list --
>
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
>  To unsubscribe send an email to
>
>  devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>
>
>  List Guidelines:
>
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
>
>  List Archives:
>
>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>
>
>  --
>
>  Sérgio M. B.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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>  

-- 
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: [phone]
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Marketing Representative

CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora?

[Sérgio Basto]

On Sat, 2020-12-12 at 15:04 -0300, Eduard Lucena wrote:
>  Quite literally here:
>  "CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021" 
and CentOS Stream continues after that date , is also wrote.
For example, samba package [1] we have c8 and c8s (CentOS Stream)
branches,  and the focus will be c8s, i.e. we should enable Centos 8
stream repo as well. I think that is the message .
[1] https://git.centos.org/rpms/samba/branches 

>  Br,
>  
>  
>  El sáb, 12 dic 2020 a las 12:03, Sérgio Basto (<sergio(a)serjux.com>)
>  escribió:
>  > On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 00:26 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>  > > Hi,
>  > > How does this (
>  > > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/) affect
>  > > Fedora?
>  > 
>  > where you read that is the end of centos ?
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > > _______________________________________________devel mailing list
>  > > -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > To unsubscribe send an email to 
>  > > devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > > Fedora Code of Conduct: 
>  > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  > > List Guidelines: 
>  > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > > List Archives: 
>  > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > -- 
>  > Sérgio M. B.
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > 
>  > devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > 
>  > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > 
>  > Fedora Code of Conduct: 
>  > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  > 
>  > List Guidelines: 
>  > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  > 
>  > List Archives: 
>  > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  > 
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________devel mailing list -- 
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: 
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
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-- 
Sérgio M. B.

CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora?

[Sergio Belkin]

El sáb, 12 dic 2020 a las 16:30, Sérgio Basto (<sergio(a)serjux.com>)
escribió:

>  On Sat, 2020-12-12 at 15:04 -0300, Eduard Lucena wrote:
>
>  Quite literally here:
>
>  "CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021"
>
>
>  and CentOS Stream continues after that date , is also wrote.
>
>  For example, samba package [1] we have c8 and c8s (CentOS Stream)
>  branches,  and the focus will be c8s, i.e. we should enable Centos 8 stream
>  repo as well. I think that is the message .
>
>  [1]
>   https://git.centos.org/rpms/samba/branches
>
>
>  Br,
>
>  El sáb, 12 dic 2020 a las 12:03, Sérgio Basto (<sergio(a)serjux.com>)
>  escribió:
>
>  On Wed, 2020-12-09 at 00:26 -0300, Sergio Belkin wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>  How does this (https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/)
>  affect Fedora?
>
>
>  where you read that is the end of centos ?
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
>  devel mailing list --
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>
>
>  To unsubscribe send an email to
>
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>
>
>  Fedora Code of Conduct:
>
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>  --
>
>
>  Sérgio M. B.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
>  
RH and people that wrote that CentOS PR made it clear that it was a really
big-big change. I don't understand the need of underplaying the facts.
-- 
--
Sergio Belkin
LPIC-2 Certified - http://www.lpi.org

CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora?

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 2:30 PM Sérgio Basto <sergio(a)serjux.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Sat, 2020-12-12 at 15:04 -0300, Eduard Lucena wrote:
>
>  Quite literally here:
>
>  "CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of 2021"
>
>
>  and CentOS Stream continues after that date , is also wrote.
>
>  For example, samba package [1] we have c8 and c8s (CentOS Stream) branches,  and the
> focus will be c8s, i.e. we should enable Centos 8 stream repo as well. I think that is the
> message . 
Good luck with that one. The dependency chain for the current Samba
4.13.2 has problems with missing libraries such as libtommath in RHEL
8 and CentOS 8. and the Heimdal Kerberos compatibility built into
Samba versus the MIT Kerberos used for RHEL and CentOS is a problem. I
publish CentOS compatible RPM building tools for samba-4.13.2..over at
https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo  If the current maintainers of
Samba for RHEL and/or CentOS plan to continue to deliberately disable
the domain controller features at the time of compilation, well,
there's little point to upgrading. The related libraries are woven
into a lot of security tools, such as sssd.

CentOS 8 stream, as described, will not be reliable or stable enough
for building RPM's unless people build their own locked down local
mirrors and use that for building with "mock" or designated build
machines. Been there, done that for locked down business deployments.
I'm concerned that upgrades in CentOS Stream may break what need to be
stable business environments, awaiting the next point release for
upgrade.
doraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]

CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Re: End of CentOS Linux: What about Fedora?

[Sérgio Basto]

On Sat, 2020-12-12 at 15:31 -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>  On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 2:30 PM Sérgio Basto
> <sergio(a)serjux.com&gt;
>  wrote:
>  > On Sat, 2020-12-12 at 15:04 -0300, Eduard Lucena wrote:
>  > 
>  > Quite literally here:
>  > 
>  > "CentOS Linux 8, as a rebuild of RHEL 8, will end at the end of
>  > 2021"
>  > 
>  > 
>  > and CentOS Stream continues after that date , is also wrote.
>  > 
>  > For example, samba package [1] we have c8 and c8s (CentOS Stream)
>  > branches,  and the focus will be c8s, i.e. we should enable Centos
>  > 8 stream repo as well. I think that is the message .
>  
>  Good luck with that one. The dependency chain for the current Samba
>  4.13.2 has problems with missing libraries such as libtommath in RHEL
>  8 and CentOS 8. and the Heimdal Kerberos compatibility built into
>  Samba versus the MIT Kerberos used for RHEL and CentOS is a problem.
>  I
>  publish CentOS compatible RPM building tools for samba-4.13.2..over
>  at
>  https://github.com/nkadel/samba4repo  If the current maintainers of
>  Samba for RHEL and/or CentOS plan to continue to deliberately disable
>  the domain controller features at the time of compilation, well,
>  there's little point to upgrading. The related libraries are woven
>  into a lot of security tools, such as sssd. 
Hi, 

Heimdal Kerberos vs MIT kerberos on Samba is a complete different story
, the same doesn't happen in Fedora ?

I'm already using CentOS Stream 8 and I'm happy, from 
https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/ [1] it is very easy to switch. 
AFAICT upgrading to Centos 8.4 the focus is already shifted to CentOS
Stream , but this is only my impression is not a fact 
 
[1]
# dnf install centos-release-stream
# dnf swap centos-{linux,stream}-repos
# dnf distro-sync
# cat /etc/centos-release
CentOS Stream release 8

>  CentOS 8 stream, as described, will not be reliable or stable enough
>  for building RPM's unless people build their own locked down local
>  mirrors and use that for building with "mock" or designated build
>  machines. Been there, done that for locked down business deployments.
>  I'm concerned that upgrades in CentOS Stream may break what need to
>  be
>  stable business environments, awaiting the next point release for
>  upgrade.
>  doraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: 
>  https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>  List Guidelines: 
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>  List Archives: 
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-- 
Sérgio M. B.