recent redhat-artwork/Bluecurve updates (w/ screenshots)

[Garrett LeSage]

Hey all,

I have recently posted a few new screenshots which demonstrate some of 
the latest updates in the "redhat-artwork" package.

You can see screenshots at the following URLs:
http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview.png
http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-slate...
http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-purpl...
http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-orang...
http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-green...
http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-gnome...

You can get the most recent version in Rawhide or out of CVS. As of this 
writing, the current Rawhide URL for redhat-artwork is:
http://rawhide.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/i386/RedHat/RPMS/redhat-a...

Brief overview of a few changes since the Red Hat Linux 9 time frame:

Icons
=====

* Reworked the entire icon set, now generated by XML configs and
      icon sheets
    * Multiple icon sizes are now available (not fully complete yet)
    * All icons are now pixel optimized per size
    * New mimetype file icons
    * Updated stock icons
    * Initial support for KDE stock icons (actions) now available (size
      issues need to be sorted out, so it's not working quite yet)
    * Gnome panel icons are 36x36 instead of 24x24 (for the time being,
      at least...)

Window Decorations
================

* Window frame decorations have a new style
    * Metacity theme implemented
    * KDE's KWin theme needs to be updated still

Widgets
=======

* A few tweaks for the GTK+ theme configuration.
    * Additional color schemes are now available for Bluecurve

Access these additional themes by selecting "desktop menu > preferences
> theme" from the panel, hitting the "Details..." button, and in the

"Controls" tab, select "Bluecurve-Slate" or some other Bluecurve color 
scheme.

Of course, there is still work to be done. Please file bugs, help out, 
and/or provide feedback on the package.

Thanks,
Garrett

[Owen Taylor]

On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 16:28, Garrett LeSage wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I have recently posted a few new screenshots which demonstrate some of 
> the latest updates in the "redhat-artwork" package.
>
> You can see screenshots at the following URLs:
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview.png
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-slate...
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-purpl...
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-orang...
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-green...
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-gnome...
> Window Decorations
> * Window frame decorations have a new style
> * Metacity theme implemented
> * KDE's KWin theme needs to be updated still

<IANAA caveat>

I'm a little concerend by the visually smaller window buttons. I think
it's likely that people will think they have to click inside the small
button. Which makes it a harder, more precision operation.

The new icons and color schemes look nice.

Regards,
    					Owen

[Klaasjan Brand]

On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 22:49, Owen Taylor wrote:
> <IANAA caveat>
>
> I'm a little concerend by the visually smaller window buttons. I think
> it's likely that people will think they have to click inside the small
> button. Which makes it a harder, more precision operation.
>
> The new icons and color schemes look nice.

I'm no user interface authority either, but that was exactly my first
concern when I saw that. I'm also not totally impressed by the menu
fonts, but since that's a preference it's no problem.

Is the bug which mis-renders the Luxi fonts in severn fixed yet?

[Garrett LeSage]

Klaasjan Brand wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 22:49, Owen Taylor wrote:
> > <IANAA caveat>
> >
> > I'm a little concerend by the visually smaller window buttons. I think
> > it's likely that people will think they have to click inside the small
> > button. Which makes it a harder, more precision operation.
> >
> > The new icons and color schemes look nice.
>
> I'm no user interface authority either, but that was exactly my first
> concern when I saw that.

The difference in size is only by a pixel (on all sides). They are inset 
by two, but the buttons have a 1-pixel clickable area on the outside of 
each. The reason why there are two pixels from the border to the button 
is because it looks bad otherwise.

Bluecurve's new buttons do look more like buttons now, a bit more 
consistent with the rest of the Bluecurve widget themes (with the 
exception of being slightly rounded). I have been thinking about 
changing things in the widget theme also, but that requires a bit of 
code modification, so it's not as easy to do.

I know that the buttons in question are actually quite larger than the 
ones on Mac OS X, especially when you consider the utility palettes 
(which also have no title because the "title" bar is so small). Also, 
the size of the window decoration buttons, as pictured in the screen 
shots, is approximately the same as scrollbar buttons, and I haven't 
seen a single person complain about the inability to click those.

In addition, the whole title bar scales depending on the font size.
> I'm also not totally impressed by the menu
> fonts, but since that's a preference it's no problem.

Actually, I did not change the default font preferences. The ones in the 
screen shots are set by my preference. They're the Bitstream fonts from 
the GNOME project, set a little smaller than most people typically would 
have their fonts.

Garrett

[Florin Andrei]

On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 13:49, Owen Taylor wrote:
> I'm a little concerend by the visually smaller window buttons. I think
> it's likely that people will think they have to click inside the small
> button. Which makes it a harder, more precision operation.

OTOH, not having buttons that touch each other might keep some people
from clicking on the X by mistake, when all they want is to click on
Maximize.

I always found it uncomfortable from a usability perspective that the
Close Window button stays together with the other ones. If i had a
dollar for every time i closed a window by mistake because of that...
> The new icons and color schemes look nice.

yup

[Konstantin Ryabitsev]

On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 16:28, Garrett LeSage wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I have recently posted a few new screenshots which demonstrate some of 
> the latest updates in the "redhat-artwork" package.

Looks pretty spiffing! Something I've noticed, though -- maximized
inactive windows blend a little too well with the foobar. E.g. observe:

http://www.linux.duke.edu/~icon/sshots/garrett-bluecurve-new.png

Is that intentional?

-icon

[Troy Dawson]

Very nice.
I think the shades of green of bluecurve-lime have been very well balanced. 
The other color schemes are nice as well, but the lime is clearly my favorite.

As for the window buttons, I have to say I prefer them this new way.  Although 
the old way, of using the entire bar, may have looked bigger, but I always 
found myself clicking on the line, or X within the button anyway.

I think the icons look very good, though I should have looked closer at them 
before installing, so I could have compared them better.

What to critique or make better?  Well, I'll wait until you get the KDE 
section done before I do that, as I'm much more familier with KDE.

I just wanted to let you know I thought things looked good.

Troy Dawson

Garrett LeSage wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> I have recently posted a few new screenshots which demonstrate some of 
> the latest updates in the "redhat-artwork" package.
>
> You can see screenshots at the following URLs:
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview.png
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-slate...
>
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-purpl...
>
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-orang...
>
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-green...
>
> http://people.redhat.com/glesage/screenshots/bluecurve_nextgen-preview-gnome...
>
> You can get the most recent version in Rawhide or out of CVS. As of this 
> writing, the current Rawhide URL for redhat-artwork is:
> http://rawhide.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/i386/RedHat/RPMS/redhat-a...
>
> Brief overview of a few changes since the Red Hat Linux 9 time frame:
> Icons
> Reworked the entire icon set, now generated by XML configs and
> icon sheets
> Multiple icon sizes are now available (not fully complete yet)
> All icons are now pixel optimized per size
> New mimetype file icons
> Updated stock icons
> Initial support for KDE stock icons (actions) now available (size
> issues need to be sorted out, so it's not working quite yet)
> Gnome panel icons are 36x36 instead of 24x24 (for the time being,
> at least...)
> Window Decorations
> Window frame decorations have a new style
> Metacity theme implemented
> KDE's KWin theme needs to be updated still
> Widgets
> A few tweaks for the GTK+ theme configuration.
> Additional color schemes are now available for Bluecurve
>
> Access these additional themes by selecting "desktop menu > preferences
> > theme" from the panel, hitting the "Details..." button, and in the
>
> "Controls" tab, select "Bluecurve-Slate" or some other Bluecurve color 
> scheme.
>
> Of course, there is still work to be done. Please file bugs, help out, 
> and/or provide feedback on the package.
>
> Thanks,
> Garrett

[Cosmin Hanulescu]

Garrett LeSage wrote:
> the latest updates in the "redhat-artwork" package.
> You can get the most recent version in Rawhide or out of CVS.

Nice work, I do like the new one. I just have a couple of comments, 
hopefully not duplicating some old FAQs...

I did update my RHEL 3 Beta WS with the redhat-artwork package from 
rawhide. I don't seem to be able to find where I can tell to the "foot" 
menu to show small icons... Along with that, I notice that there are 
some icons which are somehow blurred, while others have a good looking 
sharpness. Has anyone noticed these differences?

Greetings,
Cosmin

[Mike Chambers]

On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 05:31, Cosmin Hanulescu wrote:
> I did update my RHEL 3 Beta WS with the redhat-artwork package from 
> rawhide. I don't seem to be able to find where I can tell to the "foot" 
> menu to show small icons... Along with that, I notice that there are 
> some icons which are somehow blurred, while others have a good looking 
> sharpness. Has anyone noticed these differences?

Same problem here on same type system.  The icons are bigger, therefore
the menu is bigger/longer and no where near as small as it was.  Is
there a way to fix that besides hat/preferences/fonts?

[Garrett LeSage]

Mike Chambers wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 05:31, Cosmin Hanulescu wrote:
> > I did update my RHEL 3 Beta WS with the redhat-artwork package from 
> > rawhide. I don't seem to be able to find where I can tell to the "foot" 
> > menu to show small icons... Along with that, I notice that there are 
> > some icons which are somehow blurred, while others have a good looking 
> > sharpness. Has anyone noticed these differences?
>
> Same problem here on same type system.  The icons are bigger, therefore
> the menu is bigger/longer and no where near as small as it was.  Is
> there a way to fix that besides hat/preferences/fonts?

Edit /usr/share/themes/Bluecurve/gtk-2.0/gtkrc and change the top line:

gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=36,36"
                       to
        gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=24,24"

...and you should have the smaller versions of the icons. Because the 
color versions inherit from the main Bluecurve theme file, the icons 
should change no matter which version of the Bluecurve theme you run.

You will probably have to restart the panel after making the change, 
however. Hitting Alt-F2 and typing "killall gnome-panel" should do the 
trick.

As it stands, there are a few issues with having larger icons in the 
panel (some related to the way GTK+ and the panel are currently not 
picking up the multiple sizes, another is that the panel menu is quite 
large on the top-level).

I figured that it made sense to have the larger icons for the time being 
so that some of the icon sizing stuff might get sorted out. I will 
probably switch back the icons to the smaller size regardless -- it 
depends on what makes the most sense, though.

Garrett

[Mike Chambers]

On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 10:40, Garrett LeSage wrote:
> Edit /usr/share/themes/Bluecurve/gtk-2.0/gtkrc and change the top line:
>     gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=36,36"
>                    to
>     gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=24,24"
>
> You will probably have to restart the panel after making the change, 
> however. Hitting Alt-F2 and typing "killall gnome-panel" should do the 
> trick.

That did the trick and back to normal, thanks.

[Gerald Henriksen]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:40:36 -0400, you wrote:
> I figured that it made sense to have the larger icons for the time being 
> so that some of the icon sizing stuff might get sorted out. I will 
> probably switch back the icons to the smaller size regardless -- it 
> depends on what makes the most sense, though.

Well I also vote for the smaller size icons after my brief try of the
new theme today.

However to me the biggest problem (and why I have gone back to the
original version) is the removal of the visual hints of the boundaries
of the in use window.

With the original version there appears to be some 3D hinting as well
as the blue corners at the bottom.  Thus I can quickly see the limits
of the current window on a screen that as 10 or so applications open.

The new version I found that the various applications blended together
and I had to stop and think which part of the screen belonged to the
app I was using and which was from an app that was behind the current
one.

[Garrett LeSage]

Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:40:36 -0400, you wrote:
> > I figured that it made sense to have the larger icons for the time being 
> > so that some of the icon sizing stuff might get sorted out. I will 
> > probably switch back the icons to the smaller size regardless -- it 
> > depends on what makes the most sense, though.
>
> Well I also vote for the smaller size icons after my brief try of the
> new theme today.

I have reverted the icon size in CVS (probably to the relief of many, 
including myself after a few days of usage).  It should be in the next 
version of redhat-artwork.
> However to me the biggest problem (and why I have gone back to the
> original version) is the removal of the visual hints of the boundaries
> of the in use window.
>
> With the original version there appears to be some 3D hinting as well
> as the blue corners at the bottom.  Thus I can quickly see the limits
> of the current window on a screen that as 10 or so applications open.
>
> The new version I found that the various applications blended together
> and I had to stop and think which part of the screen belonged to the
> app I was using and which was from an app that was behind the current
> one.

I'll have to think about this one a bit.  I removed the corner handles 
because they did not really indicate resizing after I thought about it 
(as you could really resize from any corner).  The handles merely 
indicated where a diagonal resize would take place.  I really like the 
new borders where it puts less of an emphasis on the theme itself and 
makes the window frame feel more like a part of the application window.

I will try thinking of some alternatives, but I'm not going to promise 
anything at this point.  No matter what changes, someone will like it 
better one way than the other.  I want to try to do what's best.

Garrett