A couple of things.
I did not say that yum sucks. In fact, I like yum. Since I have learned how to do this I have set up my own private repository and am using a variant to do configuration management for my server farms.
What I am commenting on is the assumption made in FC5 that every one by default is connected to broadband internet connections. I would not like to see this assumption carried forward to FC6. Internet access statistic do not support this as one that support that vast majority of users. In fact, this does not even support the majority of the users.
On the FC6 page, one of the considerations is to have Anaconda back-ended by yum and I know that yum can only work to respository such as web sites or directories, I am curious to understand how this modification will work.
As for a specifc complaint, my compliant is the basic assumption that every who installs FC has broadband access to the internet. The information that I have seen show that in 2003 of the 105 M homes with internet access only 33 M had broadband.
So beside my case where I do not have any external internet acces, I have seen similar comments on the bug reports about people who only have dial-up having to do multiple yum configuration files to overcome the assumption.
-- Harry Smith thingsmith@comcast.net
-------------- Original message ---------------------- From: dragoran dragoran@feuerpokemon.de
Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
On 6/27/06, Harry Smith thingsmith@comcast.net wrote:
I know that the change in to use yum to add or delete rpm in FC5 has given me an opportunity to learn about the internals of yum. (management speak for a royal pain.) The systems that I build and use do not have access to the net even at dial-up rates. (As FC5 point to RH5, I hope that this is not one of the changes that RH is considering for v5. )
I would hate to think that FC6 would not even install it was isolated from the net. In fact, I would hope serious discussion and consideration happening about reversing the thinking in FC5 for adding and removing packages. This is a good example of on paper sounds good but fails in practice. I like to be able to add and remove packages without being connected to the net or having to having to change between different yum configuration files.
I think you have some rather basic misconceptions about the way yum works. Yum doesn't require net access to function -- all repositories can be just pointing at local resources, using file:///.
Moreover, "serious discussion and consideration" happens here all the time, and you seem to be the first one to claim that it "sounds good on paper but fails in practice." If you have specific problems with the way yum package management works in offline mode, then please bring them up namely. Saying "yum sucks" simply makes us regard you as a troll (that's management speak for "troll").
Regards,
pirut does not have an option to install from cds/dvds which system-conig-packages was able to, but this is a known issue
-- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
thingsmith@comcast.net wrote:
A couple of things.
I did not say that yum sucks. In fact, I like yum. Since I have learned how to do this I have set up my own private repository and am using a variant to do configuration management for my server farms.
What I am commenting on is the assumption made in FC5 that every one by default is connected to broadband internet connections.
There is no such assumption being made. There is further work needed in Pirut and Yum to support media and there wasnt enough time for completing this in FC5 timeframe.
I would not like to see this assumption carried forward to FC6. Internet access statistic do not support this as one that support that vast majority of users. In fact, this does not even support the majority of the users.
On the FC6 page, one of the considerations is to have Anaconda back-ended by yum and I know that yum can only work to respository such as web sites or directories, I am curious to understand how this modification will work.
You are assuming that Anaconda would require a internet connection just because it uses yum's dependency logic mechanism which is not true.
As for a specifc complaint, my compliant is the basic assumption that every who installs FC has broadband access to the internet. The information that I have seen show that in 2003 of the 105 M homes with internet access only 33 M had broadband.
Again there is no such assumption.
So beside my case where I do not have any external internet acces, I have seen similar comments on the bug reports about people who only have dial-up having to do multiple yum configuration files to overcome the assumption.
You might want to take a look at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=188750.
From your comments, am I to assume that before FC6 is finished that the further work and the bugs will be solved that allow yum to work form a set of CDs and not the file or internet connection as presently required?
If you are say that the now such assumption that everyone would have an internet connection why was the change made that by default adding and subtracting package would require an internet connection?
At 08:14 AM 6/28/2006, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
thingsmith@comcast.net wrote:
A couple of things.
I did not say that yum sucks. In fact, I like yum. Since I have learned how to do this I have set up my own private repository and am using a variant to do configuration management for my server farms. What I am commenting on is the assumption made in FC5 that every one by default is connected to broadband internet connections.
There is no such assumption being made. There is further work needed in Pirut and Yum to support media and there wasnt enough time for completing this in FC5 timeframe.
I would not like to see this assumption carried forward to FC6. Internet access statistic do not support this as one that support that vast majority of users. In fact, this does not even support the majority of the users. On the FC6 page, one of the considerations is to have Anaconda back-ended by yum and I know that yum can only work to respository such as web sites or directories, I am curious to understand how this modification will work.
You are assuming that Anaconda would require a internet connection just because it uses yum's dependency logic mechanism which is not true.
As for a specifc complaint, my compliant is the basic assumption that every who installs FC has broadband access to the internet. The information that I have seen show that in 2003 of the 105 M homes with internet access only 33 M had broadband.
Again there is no such assumption.
So beside my case where I do not have any external internet acces, I have seen similar comments on the bug reports about people who only have dial-up having to do multiple yum configuration files to overcome the assumption.
You might want to take a look at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=188750.
-- Rahul
-- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
Harry Smith wrote:
From your comments, am I to assume that before FC6 is finished that the further work and the bugs will be solved that allow yum to work form a set of CDs and not the file or internet connection as presently required?
Thats the plan.
If you are say that the now such assumption that everyone would have an internet connection why was the change made that by default adding and subtracting package would require an internet connection?
This is part of the effort to move away from up2date and solidify all the package management tools based on yum. Yum by default is configured in Fedora to connect to Internet repositories though you can very well manually configure it to point to local repositories which Pirut will honor. There wasnt enough time to complete the work to make Pirut and Yum work with CD repositories by as a Pirut option during FC5 development time.
This is one of the commonly reported issues as documented here - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/FC5Common.
Once upon a time, thingsmith@comcast.net thingsmith@comcast.net said:
On the FC6 page, one of the considerations is to have Anaconda back-ended by yum and I know that yum can only work to respository such as web sites or directories, I am curious to understand how this modification will work.
Again, FC_5_ already uses yum as the back-end for anaconda. No network access is required for this.
As for a specifc complaint, my compliant is the basic assumption that every who installs FC has broadband access to the internet. The information that I have seen show that in 2003 of the 105 M homes with internet access only 33 M had broadband.
There is no such assumption that network access is required.
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Chris Adams -
Rahul Sundaram -
thingsmith＠comcast.net