F26 Self Contained Change: Blivet-GUI in Anaconda

[Jan Kurik]

= Proposed Self Contained Change:Blivet-GUI in Anaconda =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaBlivetGUI

Change owner(s):
* Martin Kolman <mkolman(a)redhat.com&gt;
* Vojtěch Trefný <vtrefny(a)redhat.com&gt;


Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
Anaconda Installer.


== Detailed Description ==
Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
Anaconda Installer.
Unlike the current custom partitioning screen in Anaconda, which works
in a top-down way (user specifies mountpoints and their properties),
blivet-gui works with the bottom-up principle (user has full control
to assemble the storage configuration from individual members). By
integrating blivet-gui into anaconda we will make the bottom-up
partitioning available to users during the installation. Blivet-gui is
built on top of the blivet library, which is used by Anaconda for
storage configuration, this makes the change very easy to implement
and doesn't bring new code and dependecies into the installer other
than a relatively small GUI package.


== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:
- blivet-gui devs: Prepare blivet-gui for integration into Anaconda --
change the UI to look consistently while running fullscreen inside an
Anaconda spoke, change look and feel of blivet-gui dialogs to match
Anaconda dialogs, add storage configuration sanity checking into
blivet-gui.
- anaconda devs: Add an option to use blivet-gui to the Storage spoke,
add blivet-gui package as a dependency of the anaconda package so that
it is pulled into the installation environment and also add an option
to not show blivet-gui in anaconda if requested (see
https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/blob/master/docs/user-interaction...
for detailed explanation how hiding spokes works in Anaconda).

* Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)

* Release engineering: N/A (not a System Wide Change)

* List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change)

* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)

* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
-- 
Jan Kuřík
Platform & Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic

[Vít Ondruch]

Sounds interesting. I hope it won't be choice one or the another, but
that I'll be able to do basic setup by Anaconda and probably tweak some
properties of the default setup using blivet gui.


V.


Dne 19.10.2016 v 15:54 Jan Kurik napsal(a):
>  = Proposed Self Contained Change:Blivet-GUI in Anaconda =
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaBlivetGUI
>
>  Change owner(s):
>  * Martin Kolman <mkolman(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  * Vojtěch Trefný <vtrefny(a)redhat.com&gt;
>
>
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer.
>
>
>  == Detailed Description ==
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer.
>  Unlike the current custom partitioning screen in Anaconda, which works
>  in a top-down way (user specifies mountpoints and their properties),
>  blivet-gui works with the bottom-up principle (user has full control
>  to assemble the storage configuration from individual members). By
>  integrating blivet-gui into anaconda we will make the bottom-up
>  partitioning available to users during the installation. Blivet-gui is
>  built on top of the blivet library, which is used by Anaconda for
>  storage configuration, this makes the change very easy to implement
>  and doesn't bring new code and dependecies into the installer other
>  than a relatively small GUI package.
>
>
>  == Scope ==
>  * Proposal owners:
>  - blivet-gui devs: Prepare blivet-gui for integration into Anaconda --
>  change the UI to look consistently while running fullscreen inside an
>  Anaconda spoke, change look and feel of blivet-gui dialogs to match
>  Anaconda dialogs, add storage configuration sanity checking into
>  blivet-gui.
>  - anaconda devs: Add an option to use blivet-gui to the Storage spoke,
>  add blivet-gui package as a dependency of the anaconda package so that
>  it is pulled into the installation environment and also add an option
>  to not show blivet-gui in anaconda if requested (see
>
> https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/blob/master/docs/user-interaction...
>  for detailed explanation how hiding spokes works in Anaconda).
>
>  * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>
>  * Release engineering: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>
>  * List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>
>  * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>
>  * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)

[Vojtěch Trefný]

On 10/19/2016 04:17 PM, Vít Ondruch wrote:
>  Sounds interesting. I hope it won't be choice one or the another,
> but
>  that I'll be able to do basic setup by Anaconda and probably tweak some
>  properties of the default setup using blivet gui.
>  
Hi, good idea. Unfortunately this will most likely work similarly to 
current custom spoke -- you'll need to choose if you want to use 
autopart, manual configuration (custom spoke) or blivet-gui and leaving 
the spoke will reset the storage configuration.
But custom spoke has an option to create the storage configuration 
automatically and it shouldn't be so hard to add it to blivet-gui too 
(it can even call the same anaconda/blivet functions).

>
> V.
>
>
> Dne 19.10.2016 v 15:54 Jan Kurik napsal(a):
>> = Proposed Self Contained Change:Blivet-GUI in Anaconda =
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaBlivetGUI
>>
>> Change owner(s):
>> * Martin Kolman <mkolman(a)redhat.com&gt;
>> * Vojtěch Trefný <vtrefny(a)redhat.com&gt;
>>
>>
>> Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>> Anaconda Installer.
>>
>>
>> == Detailed Description ==
>> Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>> Anaconda Installer.
>> Unlike the current custom partitioning screen in Anaconda, which works
>> in a top-down way (user specifies mountpoints and their properties),
>> blivet-gui works with the bottom-up principle (user has full control
>> to assemble the storage configuration from individual members). By
>> integrating blivet-gui into anaconda we will make the bottom-up
>> partitioning available to users during the installation. Blivet-gui is
>> built on top of the blivet library, which is used by Anaconda for
>> storage configuration, this makes the change very easy to implement
>> and doesn't bring new code and dependecies into the installer other
>> than a relatively small GUI package.
>>
>>
>> == Scope ==
>> * Proposal owners:
>> - blivet-gui devs: Prepare blivet-gui for integration into Anaconda --
>> change the UI to look consistently while running fullscreen inside an
>> Anaconda spoke, change look and feel of blivet-gui dialogs to match
>> Anaconda dialogs, add storage configuration sanity checking into
>> blivet-gui.
>> - anaconda devs: Add an option to use blivet-gui to the Storage spoke,
>> add blivet-gui package as a dependency of the anaconda package so that
>> it is pulled into the installation environment and also add an option
>> to not show blivet-gui in anaconda if requested (see
>>
https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/blob/master/docs/user-interaction...
>> for detailed explanation how hiding spokes works in Anaconda).
>>
>> * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>>
>> * Release engineering: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>>
>> * List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>>
>> * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>>
>> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
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>

[Matthew Miller]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 03:54:57PM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
>  == Detailed Description ==
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer. 
I'm in favor of this; it addresses one of the persistant remaining
complaints I hear from systems administrators and Linux enthusiasts
(the latter usually with very strong opinions on how they want things)
about the new Anaconda. It's currently hard to respond to these without
telling people that their preferences are wrong - which is not a strong
way to convince someone.

I do hope there is UX thought put into how to present the choice,
though -- making it available without making the whole process seem 4x
as complicated seems like a challenge.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Vojtěch Trefný]

On 10/19/2016 04:29 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 03:54:57PM +0200, Jan Kurik wrote:
> > == Detailed Description ==
> > Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
> > Anaconda Installer.
>
>  I'm in favor of this; it addresses one of the persistant remaining
>  complaints I hear from systems administrators and Linux enthusiasts
>  (the latter usually with very strong opinions on how they want things)
>  about the new Anaconda. It's currently hard to respond to these without
>  telling people that their preferences are wrong - which is not a strong
>  way to convince someone. 
That's exactly the reason to add this option.

>  I do hope there is UX thought put into how to present the choice,
>  though -- making it available without making the whole process seem 4x
>  as complicated seems like a challenge.
>
>  

The change in the storage spoke* will be very small. Now, you have to 
choose between autopart and manual storage configuration and we will add 
a third option to use blivet-gui (it will be probably labeled "expert 
storage configuration" or something like that) and blivet-gui will be in 
a separate spoke -- just like the current "manual" configuration (custom 
spoke).


*) Storage Spoke is the "Installation Destination" screen -- 
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/21/html-single/Installation_G...

[Matthew Miller]

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 01:41:42PM +0200, Vojtěch Trefný wrote:
>  The change in the storage spoke* will be very small. Now, you have
>  to choose between autopart and manual storage configuration and we
>  will add a third option to use blivet-gui (it will be probably
>  labeled "expert storage configuration" or something like that) and
>  blivet-gui will be in a separate spoke -- just like the current
>  "manual" configuration (custom spoke). 
How about:

* Automatic
* Guided (current custom)
* Expert

?


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Chris Murphy]

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, Jan Kurik <jkurik(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  = Proposed Self Contained Change:Blivet-GUI in Anaconda =
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaBlivetGUI
>
>  Change owner(s):
>  * Martin Kolman <mkolman(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  * Vojtěch Trefný <vtrefny(a)redhat.com&gt;
>
>
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer.
>
>
>  == Detailed Description ==
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer. 
I think making Anaconda more complicated is the wrong direction to go
in. Examples of stable installers that have exactly zero bugs at
release time are stupid point and shoot installers that reliably meet
the needs of 80% of the user base. A stand alone partitioning tool
meets the needs of the remaining 19%.

I continue to suggest pulling the existing custom storage UI out of
anaconda. Make it the Easy UI option for blivet-gui, with the existing
blivet-gui the Advanced UI. And then have blivet-gui write out some
metadata that anaconda can use to override whatever its
autopartitioning configuration is, leaving the user to only deal with
the other spokes.

The proposal as it is strikes me as creating even more traps for
unsuspecting users. Already a good portion of Anaconda's custom UI
isn't tested by QA, and yet there's a release criterion that says if
the installer offers a way to do something, then it needs to work,
otherwise it's a release blocking bug. This proposal increases the
footprint for blocking bugs, in a tool that currently has 5 of 13
release blocking bugs.


>  Unlike the current custom partitioning screen in Anaconda, which
> works
>  in a top-down way (user specifies mountpoints and their properties),
>  blivet-gui works with the bottom-up principle (user has full control
>  to assemble the storage configuration from individual members). By
>  integrating blivet-gui into anaconda we will make the bottom-up
>  partitioning available to users during the installation. Blivet-gui is
>  built on top of the blivet library, which is used by Anaconda for
>  storage configuration, this makes the change very easy to implement
>  and doesn't bring new code and dependecies into the installer other
>  than a relatively small GUI package. 
Integration is not the only way to make it available to users. I'm
fairly perturbed that Windows and macOS have rock solid OS installers,
and Fedora continues to have the most indefensible asinine bugs in its
installer - even including data loss bugs in autopartitioning - and
the idea is to make it even more complicated?

I just see this as a proposal for more bugs, and not fixing the warts
the installer already has.


-- 
Chris Murphy

[Vojtěch Trefný]

On 10/19/2016 08:39 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>  On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 7:54 AM, Jan Kurik <jkurik(a)redhat.com&gt;
> wrote:
> > = Proposed Self Contained Change:Blivet-GUI in Anaconda =
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaBlivetGUI
> >
> > Change owner(s):
> > * Martin Kolman <mkolman(a)redhat.com&gt;
> > * Vojtěch Trefný <vtrefny(a)redhat.com&gt;
> >
> >
> > Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
> > Anaconda Installer.
> >
> >
> > == Detailed Description ==
> > Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
> > Anaconda Installer.
>
>  I think making Anaconda more complicated is the wrong direction to go
>  in. Examples of stable installers that have exactly zero bugs at
>  release time are stupid point and shoot installers that reliably meet
>  the needs of 80% of the user base. A stand alone partitioning tool
>  meets the needs of the remaining 19%.
>
>  I continue to suggest pulling the existing custom storage UI out of
>  anaconda. Make it the Easy UI option for blivet-gui, with the existing
>  blivet-gui the Advanced UI. And then have blivet-gui write out some
>  metadata that anaconda can use to override whatever its
>  autopartitioning configuration is, leaving the user to only deal with
>  the other spokes.
>
>  The proposal as it is strikes me as creating even more traps for
>  unsuspecting users. Already a good portion of Anaconda's custom UI
>  isn't tested by QA, and yet there's a release criterion that says if
>  the installer offers a way to do something, then it needs to work,
>  otherwise it's a release blocking bug. This proposal increases the
>  footprint for blocking bugs, in a tool that currently has 5 of 13
>  release blocking bugs. 
The contingency plan for adding blivet-gui to Anaconda is simple -- if 
it is not stable enough we just won't include it. This will be quite 
small change in Anaconda code base and removing it will take just few 
seconds.

>
>
>> Unlike the current custom partitioning screen in Anaconda, which works
>> in a top-down way (user specifies mountpoints and their properties),
>> blivet-gui works with the bottom-up principle (user has full control
>> to assemble the storage configuration from individual members). By
>> integrating blivet-gui into anaconda we will make the bottom-up
>> partitioning available to users during the installation. Blivet-gui is
>> built on top of the blivet library, which is used by Anaconda for
>> storage configuration, this makes the change very easy to implement
>> and doesn't bring new code and dependecies into the installer other
>> than a relatively small GUI package.
>
> Integration is not the only way to make it available to users. I'm
> fairly perturbed that Windows and macOS have rock solid OS installers,
> and Fedora continues to have the most indefensible asinine bugs in its
> installer - even including data loss bugs in autopartitioning - and
> the idea is to make it even more complicated?
>
> I just see this as a proposal for more bugs, and not fixing the warts
> the installer already has.
>
>

[Kevin Kofler]

Jan Kurik wrote:
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer.
>  Unlike the current custom partitioning screen in Anaconda, which works
>  in a top-down way (user specifies mountpoints and their properties),
>  blivet-gui works with the bottom-up principle (user has full control
>  to assemble the storage configuration from individual members). By
>  integrating blivet-gui into anaconda we will make the bottom-up
>  partitioning available to users during the installation. Blivet-gui is
>  built on top of the blivet library, which is used by Anaconda for
>  storage configuration, this makes the change very easy to implement
>  and doesn't bring new code and dependecies into the installer other
>  than a relatively small GUI package. 
+1, this (i.e., a non-black-box way to configure partitioning in Anaconda) 
was long overdue!

        Kevin Kofler

[Samuel Rakitničan]

>  = Proposed Self Contained Change:Blivet-GUI in Anaconda =
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AnacondaBlivetGUI
>  
>  Change owner(s):
>  * Martin Kolman <mkolman(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  * Vojtěch Trefný <vtrefny(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  
>  
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer.
>  
>  
>  == Detailed Description ==
>  Add blivet-gui as an alternative option for storage configuration in
>  Anaconda Installer.
>  Unlike the current custom partitioning screen in Anaconda, which works
>  in a top-down way (user specifies mountpoints and their properties),
>  blivet-gui works with the bottom-up principle (user has full control
>  to assemble the storage configuration from individual members). By
>  integrating blivet-gui into anaconda we will make the bottom-up
>  partitioning available to users during the installation. Blivet-gui is
>  built on top of the blivet library, which is used by Anaconda for
>  storage configuration, this makes the change very easy to implement
>  and doesn't bring new code and dependecies into the installer other
>  than a relatively small GUI package.
>  
>  
>  == Scope ==
>  * Proposal owners:
>  - blivet-gui devs: Prepare blivet-gui for integration into Anaconda --
>  change the UI to look consistently while running fullscreen inside an
>  Anaconda spoke, change look and feel of blivet-gui dialogs to match
>  Anaconda dialogs, add storage configuration sanity checking into
>  blivet-gui.
>  - anaconda devs: Add an option to use blivet-gui to the Storage spoke,
>  add blivet-gui package as a dependency of the anaconda package so that
>  it is pulled into the installation environment and also add an option
>  to not show blivet-gui in anaconda if requested (see
>  https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/blob/master/docs/user-interaction...
>  for detailed explanation how hiding spokes works in Anaconda).
>  
>  * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>  
>  * Release engineering: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>  
>  * List of deliverables: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>  
>  * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change)
>  
>  * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) 
Will this allow to manually partition partially partitioned disk?

I never managed to do that with anaconda and had to use gparted from Live media.