3:39 p.m.
I don't particularly enjoy putting gasoline on the fire,
but I think the sound problems in Fedora needs addressing.
Ever since FC3 I did not have reliable sound on Linux.
O an bog-standard Intel 82801H (ICH8 Family). That's
maybe more like 5-6 years. I would get it to work, and
every other update it would break it.
Now, since I could not upgrade from F8 to F9 or F10 (due
to dmraid breakage in anaconda), I took the plunge and
updated my development box to F11.
SOUND STILL DOESN'T WORK!
Once again, every update breaks something. So, please
just let this sink in:
In AD2009, F11 sound doesn't work reliably on standard
hardware in Linux.
Yeah, I can redirect stream, do all sort of nifty things,
except it's a mystery every time I use Skype, Youtube,
VirtualBox or Rhythmbox is I'll get sound.
Let's stop blaming "broken software" -- PA is *crashing*
when I start VirtualBox, Skype, etc. Not the app!
If you tell me to:
* run pulseaudio -D from a terminal
* restart X
* reboot
you are missing the point. If PA crashes, it should restart
automagically and reconnet. Sound should be reliable.
Also, I don't want to hear about fixing all the bugs in PA.
It didn't happen in many years, it's not gonna happen soon.
Lennart, for the sake of all that's good, please make the
darn thing reliable. Please!
P.S. Just updated yesterday, rebooted, sound broken. Again!
Stuttering and distorsion to the point you can't hear anything;
PA using a lot of CPU, outputing bits and pieces of sound.
Spent 15min starting/restarting/configuring Skype. How much
patience can one have?!?
--
Dimi Paun <dimi(a)lattica.com>
Lattica, Inc.
3:57 p.m.
On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 15:44 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
> you are missing the point. If PA crashes, it should restart
> automagically and reconnet.
Um, it does precisely that here for me. Pleasantly surprised I was,
but there ya go.
If PA has been modified to do that, great! However, every other day
something else goes wrong, and I have a hard time keeping up with
what's not working.
But I just spent 15+ minutes trying to get Skype to work, and let
me tell you it's been brutal. Is there any chance of getting Skype
to work reliably? Or flash?
For example, for flash sounds works for 1-2 days, then sometimes it
just doesn't work. Not sure why, and a few days later when I reboot
it (may) come back...
(Just so it's clear: I'm sticking with PA because I want it to succeed.
Please consider this constructive feedback.)
--
Dimi Paun <dimi(a)lattica.com>
Lattica, Inc.
4:07 p.m.
On Thu, 23.04.09 16:57, Dimi Paun (dimi(a)lattica.com) wrote:
On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 15:44 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > you are missing the point. If PA crashes, it should restart
> > automagically and reconnet.
>
> Um, it does precisely that here for me. Pleasantly surprised I was,
> but there ya go.
If PA has been modified to do that, great! However, every other day
something else goes wrong, and I have a hard time keeping up with
what's not working.
But I just spent 15+ minutes trying to get Skype to work, and let
me tell you it's been brutal. Is there any chance of getting Skype
to work reliably? Or flash?
Flash 10 works fine here. They came around and made it a better ALSA
citizen, and it now works perfectly fine on PA.
And regarding Skype, ever thought of blaming Skype for this situation?
The last time I played with Skype it was basically doing everything
wrong they could do wrong with the ALSA API. It's not a particular
surprise if it doesn' work on PA.
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc.
lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553
http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4
4:28 p.m.
Am Donnerstag, den 23.04.2009, 23:07 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering:
And regarding Skype, ever thought of blaming Skype for this
situation?
Yes, but there's not much use in it, because Skype is in trouble and
they wont spend work on their Linux version.
The last time I played with Skype it was basically doing everything
wrong they could do wrong with the ALSA API. It's not a particular
surprise if it doesn' work on PA.
Agreed, but when I tell skype to use OSS, my CPU gets up to 50% and
there is an enormous delay between what I say and the reply from the
other person. The delay gets bigger and bigger and so does CPU, until PA
uses 100% and makes my box unusable.
I think we both agree that whatever uses OSS, PA should not eat all the
CPU, right?
Lennart
Regards,
Christoph
4:50 p.m.
On Thu, 23.04.09 23:28, Christoph Wickert (christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com) wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 23.04.2009, 23:07 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering:
> And regarding Skype, ever thought of blaming Skype for this situation?
Yes, but there's not much use in it, because Skype is in trouble and
they wont spend work on their Linux version.
> The last time I played with Skype it was basically doing everything
> wrong they could do wrong with the ALSA API. It's not a particular
> surprise if it doesn' work on PA.
Agreed, but when I tell skype to use OSS, my CPU gets up to 50% and
there is an enormous delay between what I say and the reply from the
other person. The delay gets bigger and bigger and so does CPU, until PA
uses 100% and makes my box unusable.
I think we both agree that whatever uses OSS, PA should not eat all the
CPU, right?
I am sorry. I don't follow. What does OSS have to do with this?
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc.
lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553
http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4
5:43 p.m.
Am Donnerstag, den 23.04.2009, 23:50 +0200 schrieb Lennart Poettering:
On Thu, 23.04.09 23:28, Christoph Wickert
(christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com) wrote:
>
> I think we both agree that whatever uses OSS, PA should not eat all the
> CPU, right?
I am sorry. I don't follow. What does OSS have to do with this?
PA offers an OSS comparability layer. When used, PA eats up all my CPU
and causes an enormous delay.
Lennart
Regards,
Christoph
11:30 a.m.
Christoph Wickert pisze:
Am Donnerstag, den 23.04.2009, 23:50 +0200 schrieb Lennart
Poettering:
> On Thu, 23.04.09 23:28, Christoph Wickert (christoph.wickert(a)googlemail.com) wrote:
>> I think we both agree that whatever uses OSS, PA should not eat all the
>> CPU, right?
> I am sorry. I don't follow. What does OSS have to do with this?
PA offers an OSS comparability layer. When used, PA eats up all my CPU
and causes an enormous delay.
> Lennart
Regards,
Christoph
skype has been working for me with alsa pa plugin for a good while here.
Julian
3:59 a.m.
Christoph Wickert wrote:
PA offers an OSS comparability layer.
Uh no, it doesn't. Well, it does, in the form of the "padsp" wrapper
through
which you have to run the application. But the OSS compatibility layer you
get by default is provided by ALSA, and it only handles exclusive access to
the hardware, no mixing. So you're taking away the hardware from
PulseAudio, which might explain why it quits working when you do that...
On the other hand, PulseAudio provides an ALSA plugin, so ALSA is what you
need to use for apps with no native PulseAudio support.
Kevin Kofler
10:21 a.m.
On Sun, 26.04.09 10:59, Kevin Kofler (kevin.kofler(a)chello.at) wrote:
But the OSS compatibility layer you get by default is provided by
ALSA, and it only handles exclusive access to the hardware, no
mixing.
That is actually not true anymore. In-kernel OSS is disabled now in
F11.
I am actually surprised that noone of the usual suspects started a
huge thread about this yet on fedora-devel. It'd make good fodder for
the trolls. May I feed those folks their lines? "Oh my, we're no real
Unix anymore!", "Oh my, my 1992 closed source tool still needs it."
I hope some reality satire ensues.
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc.
lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553
http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4
10:42 a.m.
Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Sun, 26.04.09 10:59, Kevin Kofler (kevin.kofler(a)chello.at) wrote:
> But the OSS compatibility layer you get by default is provided by
> ALSA, and it only handles exclusive access to the hardware, no
> mixing.
>
That is actually not true anymore. In-kernel OSS is disabled now in
F11.
I am actually surprised that noone of the usual suspects started a
huge thread about this yet on fedora-devel. It'd make good fodder for
the trolls. May I feed those folks their lines? "Oh my, we're no real
Unix anymore!", "Oh my, my 1992 closed source tool still needs it."
I hope some reality satire ensues.
Lennart
jeez you have a real problem buddy!
phil
7:26 a.m.
On Sunday 26 April 2009 16:21:08 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Sun, 26.04.09 10:59, Kevin Kofler (kevin.kofler(a)chello.at) wrote:
> But the OSS compatibility layer you get by default is provided by
> ALSA, and it only handles exclusive access to the hardware, no
> mixing.
That is actually not true anymore. In-kernel OSS is disabled now in
F11.
I am actually surprised that noone of the usual suspects started a
huge thread about this yet on fedora-devel. It'd make good fodder for
the trolls. May I feed those folks their lines? "Oh my, we're no real
Unix anymore!", "Oh my, my 1992 closed source tool still needs it."
Well, the story was that they would simply not be loaded by default, not that
they would be completely removed and thus not available to "modprobe".
The "usual suspects" of course would be people who disagree with you, as usual.
Annoyingly, you can actually be helpful when you aren't sidetracked by noticing
that someone's hardware is "obsolete" or that their use case isn't
"minority".
4:09 p.m.
On 04/24/2009 02:27 AM, Dimi Paun wrote:
But I just spent 15+ minutes trying to get Skype to work, and let
me tell you it's been brutal. Is there any chance of getting Skype
to work reliably? Or flash?
Works fine here.
(Just so it's clear: I'm sticking with PA because I want it to succeed.
Please consider this constructive feedback.)
Would that include a bug report?
Rahul
12:12 p.m.
On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 02:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 04/24/2009 02:27 AM, Dimi Paun wrote:
>
> But I just spent 15+ minutes trying to get Skype to work, and let
> me tell you it's been brutal. Is there any chance of getting Skype
> to work reliably? Or flash?
Works fine here.
For how long? As I said, it works for me too at first, just to
mysteriously stop working in 20-30h. That's not reliable in my books :)
> (Just so it's clear: I'm sticking with PA because I want
it to succeed.
> Please consider this constructive feedback.)
Would that include a bug report?
But of course, how else?!?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=497550
--
Dimi Paun <dimi(a)lattica.com>
Lattica, Inc.
4:35 p.m.
On 04/24/2009 10:42 PM, Dimi Paun wrote:
On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 02:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> On 04/24/2009 02:27 AM, Dimi Paun wrote:
>> But I just spent 15+ minutes trying to get Skype to work, and let
>> me tell you it's been brutal. Is there any chance of getting Skype
>> to work reliably? Or flash?
> Works fine here.
For how long? As I said, it works for me too at first, just to
mysteriously stop working in 20-30h. That's not reliable in my books :)
I have used it for many hours without any issues.
Rahul
4:55 p.m.
On Sat, 2009-04-25 at 03:05 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> For how long? As I said, it works for me too at first, just to
> mysteriously stop working in 20-30h. That's not reliable in my
books :)
I have used it for many hours without any issues.
That's good for you, but not helpful for me. Something is going on.
As I said, it just happened again today, after only a few days since
the last reboot. I don't do anything special with sound, I use standard
hardware, standard programs, etc.
I'll keep Lennart posted as soon as I can reproduce it.
--
Dimi Paun <dimi(a)lattica.com>
Lattica, Inc.
5:27 p.m.
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Rahul Sundaram
<sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org>wrote:
On 04/24/2009 10:42 PM, Dimi Paun wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 02:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> On 04/24/2009 02:27 AM, Dimi Paun wrote:
>>> But I just spent 15+ minutes trying to get Skype to work, and let
>>> me tell you it's been brutal. Is there any chance of getting Skype
>>> to work reliably? Or flash?
>> Works fine here.
>
> For how long? As I said, it works for me too at first, just to
> mysteriously stop working in 20-30h. That's not reliable in my books :)
Although it hasn't happened in about 3 weeks now, PA would stop working
every 1-3 days for me.
Also for the first several months of F10 the sound would skip on the first
2-3 seconds of any sound I played. That seems to be fixed now though..
And I just realized this looks to be a F11 thread, my comments might be
mute!
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
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https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
--
projecthuh.com
All of my bits are free, are yours? Fedoraproject.org
12:18 p.m.
On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 15:44 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
> you are missing the point. If PA crashes, it should restart
> automagically and reconnet.
Um, it does precisely that here for me. Pleasantly surprised I was,
but there ya go.
That's not what I see here (with the very latest from Rawhide):
[dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
dimi 11022 5.8 0.1 132916 5656 ? S<sl 13:17 0:00 pulseaudio -D
dimi 11064 0.0 0.0 4200 696 pts/0 R+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
[dimi@dimi ~]$ kill -SIGSEGV 11022
[dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
dimi 11083 0.0 0.0 312 80 pts/0 R+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
[dimi@dimi ~]$ sleep 10
[dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
dimi 11088 0.0 0.0 4200 720 pts/0 S+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
--
Dimi Paun <dimi(a)lattica.com>
Lattica, Inc.
1:12 p.m.
On Fri, 24.04.09 13:18, Dimi Paun (dimi(a)lattica.com) wrote:
On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 15:44 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > you are missing the point. If PA crashes, it should restart
> > automagically and reconnet.
>
> Um, it does precisely that here for me. Pleasantly surprised I was,
> but there ya go.
That's not what I see here (with the very latest from Rawhide):
[dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
dimi 11022 5.8 0.1 132916 5656 ? S<sl 13:17 0:00 pulseaudio -D
dimi 11064 0.0 0.0 4200 696 pts/0 R+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
[dimi@dimi ~]$ kill -SIGSEGV 11022
[dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
dimi 11083 0.0 0.0 312 80 pts/0 R+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
[dimi@dimi ~]$ sleep 10
[dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
dimi 11088 0.0 0.0 4200 720 pts/0 S+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
It is autospawned when it isn't running.
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc.
lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553
http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4
2:26 p.m.
On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 20:12 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Fri, 24.04.09 13:18, Dimi Paun (dimi(a)lattica.com) wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 15:44 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote:
> > > you are missing the point. If PA crashes, it should restart
> > > automagically and reconnet.
> >
> > Um, it does precisely that here for me. Pleasantly surprised I was,
> > but there ya go.
>
> That's not what I see here (with the very latest from Rawhide):
>
> [dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
> dimi 11022 5.8 0.1 132916 5656 ? S<sl 13:17 0:00 pulseaudio -D
> dimi 11064 0.0 0.0 4200 696 pts/0 R+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
> [dimi@dimi ~]$ kill -SIGSEGV 11022
> [dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
> dimi 11083 0.0 0.0 312 80 pts/0 R+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
> [dimi@dimi ~]$ sleep 10
> [dimi@dimi ~]$ ps aux | grep pulseaudio
> dimi 11088 0.0 0.0 4200 720 pts/0 S+ 13:17 0:00 grep pulseaudio
It is autospawned when it isn't running.
when it isn't running, and it's used (eg. launch an application that
uses it, gnome-volume-control for example).
3:51 p.m.
On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 16:39 -0400, Dimi Paun wrote:
I don't particularly enjoy putting gasoline on the fire,
but I think the sound problems in Fedora needs addressing.
<snip useless rant>
nothing in your post even particularly suggests that the bug is in
Pulse.
Perhaps you could file a bug report, with some useful information in it
(like the output of lspci -nn and cat /proc/asound/card?/codec#? ), a
precise description of the actual symptoms, and none of the invective.
That would be a hell of a lot more useful. And likely to result in your
problem being solved.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
5:36 p.m.
On Thu, 23.04.09 16:39, Dimi Paun (dimi(a)lattica.com) wrote:
I don't particularly enjoy putting gasoline on the fire,
but I think the sound problems in Fedora needs addressing.
Lennart, for the sake of all that's good, please make the
darn thing reliable. Please!
I only see one bug report of yours, #493788. And on that one you
haven't responded since 2009-04-03 -- the day you posted it. Still
wainting for the informaiton I requested.
Also, let's notice that that bug is in a pretty exotic feature of PA,
so I'd you seem to have found the more advanced uses of PA
already. Your experience cannot be that bad, as it seems...
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc.
lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553
http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4
5471
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21 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
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Adam Williamson -
Andy Lawrence -
Bastien Nocera -
Bill Crawford -
Christoph Wickert -
Dimi Paun -
Julian Sikorski -
Kevin Kofler -
Lennart Poettering -
psmith -
Rahul Sundaram -
Rex Dieter