IBM buying RedHat

[Antonio Trande]

"IBM to acquire Red Hat in deal valued at $34 billion"

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/28/ibm-is-reportedly-nearing-deal-to-acquire-re...

[Chris Murphy]

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Antonio Trande  wrote:
> "IBM to acquire Red Hat in deal valued at $34 billion"
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/28/ibm-is-reportedly-nearing-deal-to-acquire-re...

Official press release.
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-ibm-creating-leading-hybrid-cloud-pro...

The reported deal is $34 billion, and Red Hat's closing market cap on
Friday was ~$20 billion, that's a big price premium. I'm not a lawyer
let alone a securities lawyer, but my guess is if Red Hat management
had refused the deal, I think they'd face shareholder lawsuits. So
anyone looking to be mad, it would be completely understandable, but
this is basically a shareholder driven deal.

Also, "distinct unit" is vague and next to meaningless. Until
acquisition details are released, there's no way of knowing exactly
what level of autonomy Red Hat is going to have, let alone what it
means for CentOS and Fedora.

For what it's worth, SUSE and openSUSE have been through a few of
these over the years, and openSUSE is still kicking.

[Neal Gompa]

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM Chris Murphy  wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Antonio Trande  wrote:
> > "IBM to acquire Red Hat in deal valued at $34 billion"
> >
> > https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/28/ibm-is-reportedly-nearing-deal-to-acquire-re...
>
> Official press release.
> https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-ibm-creating-leading-hybrid-cloud-pro...
>
> The reported deal is $34 billion, and Red Hat's closing market cap on
> Friday was ~$20 billion, that's a big price premium. I'm not a lawyer
> let alone a securities lawyer, but my guess is if Red Hat management
> had refused the deal, I think they'd face shareholder lawsuits. So
> anyone looking to be mad, it would be completely understandable, but
> this is basically a shareholder driven deal.
>
> Also, "distinct unit" is vague and next to meaningless. Until
> acquisition details are released, there's no way of knowing exactly
> what level of autonomy Red Hat is going to have, let alone what it
> means for CentOS and Fedora.
>
> For what it's worth, SUSE and openSUSE have been through a few of
> these over the years, and openSUSE is still kicking.

What worries me is precisely that we've never gone through a disaster
like what happened with the SUSE Linux community. We've prospered
because our corporate sponsor wasn't stabbing us in the back. That's
not to say there haven't been periods where Red Hat unintentionally
hurts us as a community, but they don't aim to do so.

In contrast, post Novell acquiring SUSE, there was a long period of
time where openSUSE had nearly no investment by SUSE. There were even
rumors that people were told to stay away from openSUSE or lose their
jobs. In addition to that, SUSE stopped contributing to KDE and being
involved in most upstream communities. That was also the same time
they switched from KDE to GNOME. They also laid off a very large
portion of their engineering staff.

Now, I wouldn't be unhappy if Red Hat decided to switch from GNOME to
KDE tomorrow, but the point is, IBM is not an open source company. And
they are likely to see little to no value in the open source
communities that Red Hat has fostered over the last 25 years.

Even the press release worries me, as it seems to indicate that the
only part IBM really wants is the OpenShift group. The rest of it
could go jump off a cliff for all it cares, and that might mean a loss
of investment across the board.

Fedora would be toast if that happened, since we have no other means
to keep ourselves afloat if Red Hat pulled the plug. We rely very
heavily on them to support a lot of the "grunge" work because it's
difficult and takes a lot of time to do. We also rely on Red Hat to
further develop Desktop Linux and Linux as a platform on the whole.
Without that, I don't know what we'll do.

Red Hat has been a company I've admired since I got into Linux back in
2000. I genuinely worry that IBM will smother Red Hat and kill one of
the largest producers of awesome FOSS with its bureaucratic
proprietary-ness.

--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Charles-Antoine Couret]

Le 28/10/2018 à 22:32, Neal Gompa a écrit :
> but the point is, IBM is not an open source company.

Eclipse, Linux (top 5 companies in term of kernel contributions), MQTT 
(network protocol), OpenPower (hardware), etc.

It is not perfect but it is a lot of projects and contributions to FOSS.
> Red Hat has been a company I've admired since I got into Linux back in
> 2000. I genuinely worry that IBM will smother Red Hat and kill one of
> the largest producers of awesome FOSS with its bureaucratic
> proprietary-ness.

When a company is buying another company, it is always a new story. We 
can't know in advance what would be the organization for both entities.

Red Hat could have a lot of autonomy, or not. IBM could be able to get 
only some products for them and let the rest for Red Hat as usual.

It is difficult to predict this kind of things. The best thing to do is 
to wait more news from Red Hat about it. And see more concrete actions 
from them.

Regards,

Charles-Antoine Couret

[Zachary Snyder]

I think its important in this time not to be wary but not go full on tin
foil hat. This is a sensitive time,
and reacting in a crazed manor or speculating isnt going to do ANYONE good.

Much love all, keep level heads.

Cheers,
Zach

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 4:31 PM Charles-Antoine Couret <
[e-mail]> wrote:
> Le 28/10/2018 à 22:32, Neal Gompa a écrit :
> > but the point is, IBM is not an open source company.
>
> Eclipse, Linux (top 5 companies in term of kernel contributions), MQTT
> (network protocol), OpenPower (hardware), etc.
>
> It is not perfect but it is a lot of projects and contributions to FOSS.
> > Red Hat has been a company I've admired since I got into Linux back in
> > 2000. I genuinely worry that IBM will smother Red Hat and kill one of
> > the largest producers of awesome FOSS with its bureaucratic
> > proprietary-ness.
>
> When a company is buying another company, it is always a new story. We
> can't know in advance what would be the organization for both entities.
>
> Red Hat could have a lot of autonomy, or not. IBM could be able to get
> only some products for them and let the rest for Red Hat as usual.
>
> It is difficult to predict this kind of things. The best thing to do is
> to wait more news from Red Hat about it. And see more concrete actions
> from them.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles-Antoine Couret
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
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[Neal Gompa]

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 7:30 PM Charles-Antoine Couret
 wrote:
> Le 28/10/2018 à 22:32, Neal Gompa a écrit :
> > but the point is, IBM is not an open source company.
>
> Eclipse, Linux (top 5 companies in term of kernel contributions), MQTT
> (network protocol), OpenPower (hardware), etc.
>
> It is not perfect but it is a lot of projects and contributions to FOSS.

While it is true that they have given a lot to FOSS, they do even more
with proprietary solutions. Their primary products are all proprietary
solutions, and their cloud is not built from FOSS solutions. If the
bean counters at IBM decide to change everything over and open source
everything, then sure, I'll take it back.

And with the projects you mention, IBM is barely involved (except OpenPOWER).
> > Red Hat has been a company I've admired since I got into Linux back in
> > 2000. I genuinely worry that IBM will smother Red Hat and kill one of
> > the largest producers of awesome FOSS with its bureaucratic
> > proprietary-ness.
>
> When a company is buying another company, it is always a new story. We
> can't know in advance what would be the organization for both entities.
>
> Red Hat could have a lot of autonomy, or not. IBM could be able to get
> only some products for them and let the rest for Red Hat as usual.

Experience with companies acquired by IBM in the past have indicated
that I should not have hope for this...

Unless I see some ink indicating otherwise, I'm assuming it will be
the same bloodsucking strategy they used on SoftLayer and other
companies they bought.
> It is difficult to predict this kind of things. The best thing to do is
> to wait more news from Red Hat about it. And see more concrete actions
> from them.

It's always a wait and see approach. I'm a bit disappointed that no
one from Red Hat has said anything yet. The only comfort is that
apparently most RHers I know are equally surprised...

It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
directly...

--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Simo Sorce]

On Sun, 2018-10-28 at 19:44 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> It's always a wait and see approach. I'm a bit disappointed that no
> one from Red Hat has said anything yet. The only comfort is that
> apparently most RHers I know are equally surprised...

We are all astonished honestly,
I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
> It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> directly...

I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...

Simo.

[Zach Villers]

On 10/28/18 7:56 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> We are all astonished honestly,
> I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
> internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
> hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
>
> I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
> at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...

As someone who has been through this scenario multiple times ( and not
currently at RH ), here are some helpful things we can do to support our
community members that are directly involved with this process;

* be mindful that they are people who will have concerns and feelings to
process
* keep focused on our bug reports, patches, packages, artwork, etc
* help celebrate the community this week (I think thats a thing thats
happening?)
* Install F29, Install Silverblue
* Answer the questions you know the answers to ( this is mostly a
reminder to myself, but if you want, you can borrow it :)
* Be patient, keep a list of questions or concerns that pertain to you,
there will be a time and a place for asking

I'm terrible at metaphors, but if you haven't been through this type of
thing before, it feels as if someone just sent you official notice that
you've drowned in a desert, or chocolate and vanilla are the same
flavors. In other words, it will take a bit for folks to find their footing.

Cheers,
Zach
#aikidouke

[Geoffrey Marr]

Zach,

What good advice. Thank you. :)

Let's stick to what we know.

Geoff Marr
IRC: coremodule

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 7:59 PM Zach Villers  wrote:
> On 10/28/18 7:56 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > We are all astonished honestly,
> > I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
> > internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
> > hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
> >
> > I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
> > at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...
>
> As someone who has been through this scenario multiple times ( and not
> currently at RH ), here are some helpful things we can do to support our
> community members that are directly involved with this process;
> be mindful that they are people who will have concerns and feelings to
>
> process
> keep focused on our bug reports, patches, packages, artwork, etc
> help celebrate the community this week (I think thats a thing thats
>
> happening?)
> Install F29, Install Silverblue
> Answer the questions you know the answers to ( this is mostly a
>
> reminder to myself, but if you want, you can borrow it :)
> Be patient, keep a list of questions or concerns that pertain to you,
>
> there will be a time and a place for asking
>
> I'm terrible at metaphors, but if you haven't been through this type of
> thing before, it feels as if someone just sent you official notice that
> you've drowned in a desert, or chocolate and vanilla are the same
> flavors. In other words, it will take a bit for folks to find their
> footing.
>
> Cheers,
> Zach
> #aikidouke
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]

[John Coughlan]

IBM is a cancer. How long have they been working with Watson, and what exactly do they have to show for it?

Also as many others have said their FOSS print is a joke at best.

As a community I feel like we are in some trouble here.

IBM shelled out A TON of money for RH, and the first thing they are going to do if it has not been done already is to crack the books. When they see that RH has been VERY supportive of it’s open source community I don’t think that’s going to fly. I don’t think we as a community are going to make it through this transition.

JC
> On Oct 28, 2018, at 7:07 PM, Geoffrey Marr  wrote:
>
> Zach,
>
> What good advice. Thank you. :)
>
> Let's stick to what we know.
>
> Geoff Marr
> IRC: coremodule
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 7:59 PM Zach Villers <[e-mail] > wrote:
> On 10/28/18 7:56 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > We are all astonished honestly,
> > I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
> > internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
> > hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
> >
> > I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
> > at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...
>
> As someone who has been through this scenario multiple times ( and not
> currently at RH ), here are some helpful things we can do to support our
> community members that are directly involved with this process;
> be mindful that they are people who will have concerns and feelings to
>
> process
> keep focused on our bug reports, patches, packages, artwork, etc
> help celebrate the community this week (I think thats a thing thats
>
> happening?)
> Install F29, Install Silverblue
> Answer the questions you know the answers to ( this is mostly a
>
> reminder to myself, but if you want, you can borrow it :)
> Be patient, keep a list of questions or concerns that pertain to you,
>
> there will be a time and a place for asking
>
> I'm terrible at metaphors, but if you haven't been through this type of
> thing before, it feels as if someone just sent you official notice that
> you've drowned in a desert, or chocolate and vanilla are the same
> flavors. In other words, it will take a bit for folks to find their footing.
>
> Cheers,
> Zach
> #aikidouke
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail] 
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail] 
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]

[Brian Monroe]

Who supports or backs rpmfusion? I think it's too early to do anything but
as I was thinking about who would be willing to pick up the project if we
were but loose.

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 8:15 PM John Coughlan 
wrote:
> IBM is a cancer. How long have they been working with Watson, and what
> exactly do they have to show for it?
>
> Also as many others have said their FOSS print is a joke at best.
>
> As a community I feel like we are in some trouble here.
>
> IBM shelled out A TON of money for RH, and the first thing they are going
> to do if it has not been done already is to crack the books. When they see
> that RH has been VERY supportive of it’s open source community I don’t
> think that’s going to fly. I don’t think we as a community are going to
> make it through this transition.
>
> JC
>
> On Oct 28, 2018, at 7:07 PM, Geoffrey Marr  wrote:
>
> Zach,
>
> What good advice. Thank you. :)
>
> Let's stick to what we know.
>
> Geoff Marr
> IRC: coremodule
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 7:59 PM Zach Villers  wrote:
> > On 10/28/18 7:56 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > > We are all astonished honestly,
> > > I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
> > > internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
> > > hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
> > >
> > > I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
> > > at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...
> >
> > As someone who has been through this scenario multiple times ( and not
> > currently at RH ), here are some helpful things we can do to support our
> > community members that are directly involved with this process;
> > be mindful that they are people who will have concerns and feelings to
> >
> > process
> > keep focused on our bug reports, patches, packages, artwork, etc
> > help celebrate the community this week (I think thats a thing thats
> >
> > happening?)
> > Install F29, Install Silverblue
> > Answer the questions you know the answers to ( this is mostly a
> >
> > reminder to myself, but if you want, you can borrow it :)
> > Be patient, keep a list of questions or concerns that pertain to you,
> >
> > there will be a time and a place for asking
> >
> > I'm terrible at metaphors, but if you haven't been through this type of
> > thing before, it feels as if someone just sent you official notice that
> > you've drowned in a desert, or chocolate and vanilla are the same
> > flavors. In other words, it will take a bit for folks to find their
> > footing.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Zach
> > #aikidouke
> >
> > devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
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[Zachary Snyder]

That’s a bit much, understand the concern, but the deal does state they’re
going to uphold the opposite.

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM John Coughlan 
wrote:
> IBM is a cancer. How long have they been working with Watson, and what
> exactly do they have to show for it?
>
> Also as many others have said their FOSS print is a joke at best.
>
> As a community I feel like we are in some trouble here.
>
> IBM shelled out A TON of money for RH, and the first thing they are going
> to do if it has not been done already is to crack the books. When they see
> that RH has been VERY supportive of it’s open source community I don’t
> think that’s going to fly. I don’t think we as a community are going to
> make it through this transition.
>
> JC
>
> On Oct 28, 2018, at 7:07 PM, Geoffrey Marr  wrote:
>
> Zach,
>
> What good advice. Thank you. :)
>
> Let's stick to what we know.
>
> Geoff Marr
> IRC: coremodule
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 7:59 PM Zach Villers  wrote:
> > On 10/28/18 7:56 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > > We are all astonished honestly,
> > > I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
> > > internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
> > > hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
> > >
> > > I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
> > > at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...
> >
> > As someone who has been through this scenario multiple times ( and not
> > currently at RH ), here are some helpful things we can do to support our
> > community members that are directly involved with this process;
> > be mindful that they are people who will have concerns and feelings to
> >
> > process
> > keep focused on our bug reports, patches, packages, artwork, etc
> > help celebrate the community this week (I think thats a thing thats
> >
> > happening?)
> > Install F29, Install Silverblue
> > Answer the questions you know the answers to ( this is mostly a
> >
> > reminder to myself, but if you want, you can borrow it :)
> > Be patient, keep a list of questions or concerns that pertain to you,
> >
> > there will be a time and a place for asking
> >
> > I'm terrible at metaphors, but if you haven't been through this type of
> > thing before, it feels as if someone just sent you official notice that
> > you've drowned in a desert, or chocolate and vanilla are the same
> > flavors. In other words, it will take a bit for folks to find their
> > footing.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Zach
> > #aikidouke
> >
> > devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]

[John Coughlan]

I don’t know who runs or supports fusion.

In terms of IBM upholding the FOSS legacy that RH has been blazing in…As I said before - IBM’s actions speak to just the opposite. They can say whatever they want in press releases, but what they actually do is what I am worried about.

JC 
L0ft1369
> On Oct 28, 2018, at 8:23 PM, Zachary Snyder  wrote:
>
> That’s a bit much, understand the concern, but the deal does state they’re going to uphold the opposite.
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:15 PM John Coughlan <[e-mail] > wrote:
> IBM is a cancer. How long have they been working with Watson, and what exactly do they have to show for it?
>
> Also as many others have said their FOSS print is a joke at best.
>
> As a community I feel like we are in some trouble here.
>
> IBM shelled out A TON of money for RH, and the first thing they are going to do if it has not been done already is to crack the books. When they see that RH has been VERY supportive of it’s open source community I don’t think that’s going to fly. I don’t think we as a community are going to make it through this transition.
>
> JC
> > On Oct 28, 2018, at 7:07 PM, Geoffrey Marr <[e-mail] > wrote:
> >
> > Zach,
> >
> > What good advice. Thank you. :)
> >
> > Let's stick to what we know.
> >
> > Geoff Marr
> > IRC: coremodule
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 7:59 PM Zach Villers <[e-mail] > wrote:
> > On 10/28/18 7:56 PM, Simo Sorce wrote:
> > > We are all astonished honestly,
> > > I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
> > > internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
> > > hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
> > >
> > > I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
> > > at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...
> >
> > As someone who has been through this scenario multiple times ( and not
> > currently at RH ), here are some helpful things we can do to support our
> > community members that are directly involved with this process;
> > be mindful that they are people who will have concerns and feelings to
> >
> > process
> > keep focused on our bug reports, patches, packages, artwork, etc
> > help celebrate the community this week (I think thats a thing thats
> >
> > happening?)
> > Install F29, Install Silverblue
> > Answer the questions you know the answers to ( this is mostly a
> >
> > reminder to myself, but if you want, you can borrow it :)
> > Be patient, keep a list of questions or concerns that pertain to you,
> >
> > there will be a time and a place for asking
> >
> > I'm terrible at metaphors, but if you haven't been through this type of
> > thing before, it feels as if someone just sent you official notice that
> > you've drowned in a desert, or chocolate and vanilla are the same
> > flavors. In other words, it will take a bit for folks to find their footing.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Zach
> > #aikidouke
> >
> > devel mailing list -- [e-mail] 
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail] 
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
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[Porfirio Andrés Páiz Carrasco]

El dom., 28 de oct. de 2018 a la(s) 21:15, John Coughlan
([e-mail]) escribió:
> IBM is a cancer. How long have they been working with Watson, and what exactly do they have to show for it?
>
> Also as many others have said their FOSS print is a joke at best.
>
> As a community I feel like we are in some trouble here.
>
> IBM shelled out A TON of money for RH, and the first thing they are going to do if it has not been done already is to crack the books. When they see that RH has been VERY supportive of it’s open source community I don’t think that’s going to fly. I don’t think we as a community are going to make it through this transition.

Believe!

Let's stay positives :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ozaFbqg00

Porfirio.

[Peter Robinson]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 12:46 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:
> On Sun, 2018-10-28 at 19:44 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > It's always a wait and see approach. I'm a bit disappointed that no
> > one from Red Hat has said anything yet. The only comfort is that
> > apparently most RHers I know are equally surprised...
>
> We are all astonished honestly,
> I took to fedora-devel only because I finished reading *all* the
> internal emails about it that I downloaded so far (it took me a few
> hours) and ... still can't digest the news.
> > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > directly...
>
> I am sure it will happen at some point, but this is news for *everyone*
> at Red Hat except a handful (at the CXX level) so give us some time ...

From the press release, which is all I know about, it's not due to
complete until "latter half of 2019." which is around a year from now
and it has to go through all the regulatory reviews. Until that point
there's nothing to discuss and I wouldn't expect any engagement with
the community until then because everything is subject to change.

So I suspect it's a wait and see and we'll know more a year from now.

Peter

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le 2018-10-29 10:18, Peter Robinson a écrit :
> From the press release, which is all I know about, it's not due to
> complete until "latter half of 2019." which is around a year from now
> and it has to go through all the regulatory reviews.

That’s not how those things work. As soon as two corps decide a buyout/a 
merge management is asked to anticipate it and start working and 
thinking as if the buyout/merge was effective.

And then if regulators finally say no, it costs some back-pedalling, but 
you don’t announce that kind of change if you do not expect regulators 
to ok it.

Regards,

[Peter Robinson]

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 9:45 AM Nicolas Mailhot
 wrote:
> Le 2018-10-29 10:18, Peter Robinson a écrit :
> > From the press release, which is all I know about, it's not due to
> > complete until "latter half of 2019." which is around a year from now
> > and it has to go through all the regulatory reviews.
>
> That’s not how those things work. As soon as two corps decide a buyout/a
> merge management is asked to anticipate it and start working and
> thinking as if the buyout/merge was effective.
>
> And then if regulators finally say no, it costs some back-pedalling, but
> you don’t announce that kind of change if you do not expect regulators
> to ok it.

Sure, but the fact is that there's going to be a long run way and I
would not expect anything to change in the community space for some
time, just look at the recent github process that happened with
Microsoft.

[Chris Murphy]

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 5:44 PM, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 7:30 PM Charles-Antoine Couret
>  wrote:
> > Le 28/10/2018 à 22:32, Neal Gompa a écrit :
> > > but the point is, IBM is not an open source company.
> >
> > Eclipse, Linux (top 5 companies in term of kernel contributions), MQTT
> > (network protocol), OpenPower (hardware), etc.
> >
> > It is not perfect but it is a lot of projects and contributions to FOSS.
>
> While it is true that they have given a lot to FOSS, they do even more
> with proprietary solutions. Their primary products are all proprietary
> solutions, and their cloud is not built from FOSS solutions. If the
> bean counters at IBM decide to change everything over and open source
> everything, then sure, I'll take it back.
>
> And with the projects you mention, IBM is barely involved (except OpenPOWER).
> > > Red Hat has been a company I've admired since I got into Linux back in
> > > 2000. I genuinely worry that IBM will smother Red Hat and kill one of
> > > the largest producers of awesome FOSS with its bureaucratic
> > > proprietary-ness.
> >
> > When a company is buying another company, it is always a new story. We
> > can't know in advance what would be the organization for both entities.
> >
> > Red Hat could have a lot of autonomy, or not. IBM could be able to get
> > only some products for them and let the rest for Red Hat as usual.
>
> Experience with companies acquired by IBM in the past have indicated
> that I should not have hope for this...
>
> Unless I see some ink indicating otherwise, I'm assuming it will be
> the same bloodsucking strategy they used on SoftLayer and other
> companies they bought.

It's pie in the sky but if it were a case of Red Hat buying IBM with
IBM's money (ala Apple and NeXT) I wouldn't be as concerned. But yeah,
IBM's acquisition track record speaks for itself, so it'd take some
substantial ink to mitigate it. And also, the shareholders have to
approve that deal. It really is up to them at this point.
> > It is difficult to predict this kind of things. The best thing to do is
> > to wait more news from Red Hat about it. And see more concrete actions
> > from them.
>
> It's always a wait and see approach. I'm a bit disappointed that no
> one from Red Hat has said anything yet. The only comfort is that
> apparently most RHers I know are equally surprised...
>
> It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> directly...

There's an email I referenced from Whitehurst. I expect no one in
Fedoraland knows more that they can also talk about publicly yet. For
all kinds of reasons, not least of which RHT is a publicly traded
company, all of this would have been known by a rather small number of
Red Hat leadership until today.

And the bottom line is it really doesn't matter what anybody says, it
matters what they do. And that's gonna take some time to sort out.

[Christopher Meng]

I’m concerned about IBM’s sluggish organization. It is not “seems like” but
for real that IBM has a contrary leadership style comparing with Red Hat,
isn’t it?

[Matthew Miller]

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> directly...

Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
there specific things you'd like to ask?

[John Coughlan]

Yea - Does IBM have any plans on keeping, or discarding any of RH’s open source efforts…like this one? Can we as a community still expect the same sort of, and level of involvement post sale as we have enjoyed before hand from RH/IBM employees?

-L0ft
> On Oct 30, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Matthew Miller  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > directly...
>
> Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
> the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
> is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
> there specific things you'd like to ask?
>
> -- 
> Matthew Miller
>
> Fedora Project Leader
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[Peter Robinson]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 6:13 AM John Coughlan  wrote:
> Yea - Does IBM have any plans on keeping, or discarding any of RH’s open source efforts…like this one? Can we as a community still expect the same sort of, and level of involvement post sale as we have enjoyed before hand from RH/IBM employees?

See the thread on the council list, basically it's too early to tell,
no one is worried as IBM has a long record of embracing open source
and it's way too early to tell, it's not due to close until H2 next
year. See Matthew's response and others. For the time being it's
continue as normal.
> -L0ft
> > On Oct 30, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Matthew Miller  wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > > directly...
> >
> > Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
> > the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
> > is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
> > there specific things you'd like to ask?
> >
> > --
> > Matthew Miller
> >
> > Fedora Project Leader
> > _______________________________________________
> > devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
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>
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[David Sommerseth]

On 31/10/18 06:21, John Coughlan wrote:
> Yea - Does IBM have any plans on keeping, or discarding any of RH’s open source 
> efforts…like this one? Can we as a community still expect the same sort of, and level of 
> involvement post sale as we have enjoyed before hand from RH/IBM employees?

Even though this is not an official source of any kind, I think the analysis
done here pretty well covers these questions for now:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/red-hat-an-independent-barony-in-the-kingdom-of-ibm/

[Raphael Groner]

> Yea - Does IBM have any plans on keeping, or discarding any of RH’s open source
> efforts…like this one? Can we as a community still expect the same sort of, and level of
> involvement post sale as we have enjoyed before hand from RH/IBM employees?
>
> -L0ft

Although I'm against this topic to get discussed on a development list, my interest would be how many stock shares [*} were hold by IBM before the announcement of the big merge. It's not commonly known that Red Hat is a company listed on stock market, as it turns out again. Significantly much money seems to base this company in capitalism.
Come on, new bosses come and go again, as a developer you shouldn't care where the money [**] has its sources. Just try to keep the good mindset against this still great project and famous community like Fedora obviously is. Or decide to leave, it's up to you.
Just my 5ct.
Raphael

[*] https://www.nasdaq.com/de/symbol/rht/stock-chart
[**] https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/264/241/9e9.gif

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 4:48 PM Matthew Miller  wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > directly...
>
> Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
> the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
> is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
> there specific things you'd like to ask?

When did the engineering staff know? Will IBM push Red Hat towards, or
away, from their current level of worldwide telecommuting? Whose
management will be in charge on a day to day basis? What will be the
relationship with Fedora? Will Red Hat engineers be as encouraged as
they are now to publish software and fixes to the Fedora releases?
Will the CentOS core development team stay employed by Red Hat? What
is the expected release date for RHEL 8, so I can stop building the
*very* large dependency chains between current Fedora components I
need to backport to RHEL 7 and CentOS 7? Will IBM and Red Hat rein in
the "let's replace another system function into systemd that has
nothing to do with logging or daemon management" ?

[Jonathan Wakely]

On 01/11/18 07:18 -0400, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 4:48 PM Matthew Miller  wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > > directly...
> >
> > Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
> > the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
> > is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
> > there specific things you'd like to ask?
>
> When did the engineering staff know?

At the same time as everybody else: when the press releases went
public on Sunday.

There's no way they could have given thousands of people advance
notice without leaks, which would have risked insider trading.
Regulations around this kind of thing are strict.

[Neal Gompa]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:14 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia  wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 4:48 PM Matthew Miller  wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > > directly...
> >
> > Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
> > the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
> > is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
> > there specific things you'd like to ask?
>
> When did the engineering staff know?

I'm pretty sure it's obvious by this thread that everyone found out at
the same time...
> Will IBM push Red Hat towards, or
> away, from their current level of worldwide telecommuting? Whose
> management will be in charge on a day to day basis? What will be the
> relationship with Fedora? Will Red Hat engineers be as encouraged as
> they are now to publish software and fixes to the Fedora releases?
> Will the CentOS core development team stay employed by Red Hat?

These are questions I'm interested in answers on. However, I'm also
worried about how much the "cloud" was mentioned in the presser. It
makes me nervous about Red Hat's investment into other areas, which a
lot of the Linux ecosystem relies on, even outside of the Fedora
community. Desktop Linux, traditional server platforms, IoT, etc. look
like areas that might be disinvested in. :(
> What
> is the expected release date for RHEL 8, so I can stop building the
> *very* large dependency chains between current Fedora components I
> need to backport to RHEL 7 and CentOS 7?

Yeah, no. They're not going to answer this. I wouldn't even expect
them to. But a little sleuthing will give you some idea of when we'll
see the next RHEL release. :)
> Will IBM and Red Hat rein in
> the "let's replace another system function into systemd that has
> nothing to do with logging or daemon management" ?

Yeah, no. That's very pejorative. I wouldn't answer it even if I knew
the answer to it.

--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[William Moreno]

> These are questions I'm interested in answers on. However, I'm also
> worried about how much the "cloud" was mentioned in the presser. It
> makes me nervous about Red Hat's investment into other areas, which a
> lot of the Linux ecosystem relies on, even outside of the Fedora
> community. Desktop Linux, traditional server platforms, IoT, etc. look
> like areas that might be disinvested in. :(
>
> Gnome, LibreOffice, PulseAudio, Pipeware .... and a really long list

available here:

https://community.redhat.com/software/

I really like the RedHat way about open source (
https://www.redhat.com/es/open-source/red-hat-way) many of those projects
are lucrative, but many others are not so, Redhat have been profitable even
investing a lot in many open source projects, so **MAYBE** IBM will make
not many changes in the short or midle term, but if they want a higher
return over investment they can see a way to cut expenses by reducing
contributions to areas that they do not focus.

Fedora is the upstream of RHEL, I do not see IBM killing RHEL just because
is the heart of RedHat bussines model, a there are a lot of things IBM can
do on top of the RHEL base, and if you want to keep RHEL solid you need a
strong base in the Fedora Project, I am really curios about IBM position
about the Community around Fedora (**we** the people that do some stuff in
Fedora without any direct RH income), I do not see IBM killing the Fedora
Community just because they need to keep the development of the Linux
ecosystem to keep RHEL strong, maybe we can see a lot more bureaucracy, we
can maybe less budget for events, but I do thing that the Fedora Project
will continue and I hope it will kepp being a awesome community to be part
of it.

We have F29 out now and can be happy about it.

[Peter Robinson]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:26 PM Neal Gompa  wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:14 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia  wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 4:48 PM Matthew Miller  wrote:
> > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > > > directly...
> > >
> > > Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
> > > the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
> > > is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
> > > there specific things you'd like to ask?
> >
> > When did the engineering staff know?
>
> I'm pretty sure it's obvious by this thread that everyone found out at
> the same time...
> > Will IBM push Red Hat towards, or
> > away, from their current level of worldwide telecommuting? Whose
> > management will be in charge on a day to day basis? What will be the
> > relationship with Fedora? Will Red Hat engineers be as encouraged as
> > they are now to publish software and fixes to the Fedora releases?
> > Will the CentOS core development team stay employed by Red Hat?
>
> These are questions I'm interested in answers on. However, I'm also
> worried about how much the "cloud" was mentioned in the presser. It
> makes me nervous about Red Hat's investment into other areas, which a
> lot of the Linux ecosystem relies on, even outside of the Fedora
> community. Desktop Linux, traditional server platforms, IoT, etc. look
> like areas that might be disinvested in. :(

And none of those questions are anything to do with the Fedora project
what so ever, they are between Red Hat employees, Red Hat and IBM.
Whether a Red Hat employee works on Fedora from their house or an
office desk is irrelevant! While I know people are fascinated by
peaking over people's back fences or taking a sticky beak at someone
else's private life basically none of any of the above has any outcome
to do with Fedora, those questions that are have already been answered
on this thread as best as they currently can be.
> > What
> > is the expected release date for RHEL 8, so I can stop building the
> > *very* large dependency chains between current Fedora components I
> > need to backport to RHEL 7 and CentOS 7?
>
> Yeah, no. They're not going to answer this. I wouldn't even expect
> them to. But a little sleuthing will give you some idea of when we'll
> see the next RHEL release. :)

Completely irrelevant WRT anything to do with the IBM acquisition.
> > Will IBM and Red Hat rein in
> > the "let's replace another system function into systemd that has
> > nothing to do with logging or daemon management" ?

Completely irrelevant. Please keep the thread on topic. Nice try
trying to fuel sentiment but unrelated.

[Neal Gompa]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:12 PM Peter Robinson  wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:26 PM Neal Gompa  wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:14 AM Nico Kadel-Garcia  wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 4:48 PM Matthew Miller  wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 07:44:12PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > > > It'd be nice if someone from up top would deign to come and talk to us
> > > > > directly...
> > > >
> > > > Communications are pretty carefully controlled for regulatory reasons, and
> > > > the fact is even those at the top don't know everything yet. And speculation
> > > > is basically right out. That said, I'm working on what I can do here. Are
> > > > there specific things you'd like to ask?
> > >
> > > When did the engineering staff know?
> >
> > I'm pretty sure it's obvious by this thread that everyone found out at
> > the same time...
> > > Will IBM push Red Hat towards, or
> > > away, from their current level of worldwide telecommuting? Whose
> > > management will be in charge on a day to day basis? What will be the
> > > relationship with Fedora? Will Red Hat engineers be as encouraged as
> > > they are now to publish software and fixes to the Fedora releases?
> > > Will the CentOS core development team stay employed by Red Hat?
> >
> > These are questions I'm interested in answers on. However, I'm also
> > worried about how much the "cloud" was mentioned in the presser. It
> > makes me nervous about Red Hat's investment into other areas, which a
> > lot of the Linux ecosystem relies on, even outside of the Fedora
> > community. Desktop Linux, traditional server platforms, IoT, etc. look
> > like areas that might be disinvested in. :(
>
> And none of those questions are anything to do with the Fedora project
> what so ever, they are between Red Hat employees, Red Hat and IBM.
> Whether a Red Hat employee works on Fedora from their house or an
> office desk is irrelevant! While I know people are fascinated by
> peaking over people's back fences or taking a sticky beak at someone
> else's private life basically none of any of the above has any outcome
> to do with Fedora, those questions that are have already been answered
> on this thread as best as they currently can be.

I'm surprised that you take that opinion, because the fact that people
are working on these things as part of their day job makes it so that
things often move forward. In many cases, people can't afford to work
on these kinds of things from the side without really sacrificing
something.

Heck, I know that I sacrifice quite a lot of "free" time to working on
stuff like this because I can't do it as part of my job. And because
of that, my commitments are much woozier and limited, because I can't
spend dedicated cycles on everything I work on.

The fact I get anything done is more the exception than the rule. :)

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:32 AM, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> These are questions I'm interested in answers on. However, I'm also
> worried about how much the "cloud" was mentioned in the presser. It
> makes me nervous about Red Hat's investment into other areas, which a
> lot of the Linux ecosystem relies on, even outside of the Fedora
> community. Desktop Linux, traditional server platforms, IoT, etc. look
> like areas that might be disinvested in. :(

The press release's focus on cloud cloud cloud sure makes it sound like 
desktop team will be first in line for cuts. I think it's quite natural 
for Fedora Workstation users to be worried right now, given the lack of 
public statement regarding the future of Red Hat's desktop work. It 
goes without saying that Fedora will not have a very bright future if 
Red Hat's investment in desktop and Workstation were to cease or be 
significantly reduced.

Plus a lot of my friends work on desktop and they will be :( :( :( if 
their jobs go away.

Michael

[David Sommerseth]

On 01/11/18 17:31, [e-mail] wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 8:32 AM, Neal Gompa  wrote:
> > These are questions I'm interested in answers on. However, I'm also
> > worried about how much the "cloud" was mentioned in the presser. It
> > makes me nervous about Red Hat's investment into other areas, which a
> > lot of the Linux ecosystem relies on, even outside of the Fedora
> > community. Desktop Linux, traditional server platforms, IoT, etc. look
> > like areas that might be disinvested in. :(
>
> The press release's focus on cloud cloud cloud sure makes it sound like
> desktop team will be first in line for cuts. I think it's quite natural for
> Fedora Workstation users to be worried right now, given the lack of public
> statement regarding the future of Red Hat's desktop work. It goes without
> saying that Fedora will not have a very bright future if Red Hat's investment
> in desktop and Workstation were to cease or be significantly reduced.
>
> Plus a lot of my friends work on desktop and they will be :( :( :( if their
> jobs go away.

Please, this is speculation.  This does no good.  Do notice these parts from
the press release:

- "IBM to maintain Red Hat’s open source innovation legacy, scaling its vast
   technology portfolio and *empowering its widespread developer community*"

- "With this acquisition, IBM will *remain committed* to Red Hat’s open
   governance, open source contributions, *participation in the open source*
   *community* and development model, and fostering its widespread developer
   ecosystem."

- "Upon closing of the acquisition, Red Hat will join IBM’s Hybrid Cloud team
   *as a distinct unit*, preserving the *independence* and *neutrality* of
   Red Hat’s open source development heritage and commitment, current product
   portfolio and go-to-market strategy, and unique development culture.
   Red Hat will continue to be led by Jim Whitehurst and Red Hat’s current
   management team. [...] IBM intends to *maintain* Red Hat’s headquarters,
   facilities, *brands* and *practices*."

(my own emphasizing)

All can be found here:
https://www.redhat.com/en/about/press-releases/ibm-acquire-red-hat-completely-changing-cloud-landscape-and-becoming-worlds-1-hybrid-cloud-provider

And more details:
-
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-ibm-creating-leading-hybrid-cloud-provider

In addition, according to zdnet [0]:

'Arvind Krishna, IBM's senior vice president of hybrid cloud, said: "Red Hat
   must, and will, remain independent."'

This is a fairly strong statement from IBM.

[0]
https://www.zdnet.com/article/red-hat-an-independent-barony-in-the-kingdom-of-ibm/

Lots can be said about IBM.  But despite the rumours on the street, IBM isn't
stupid.  They have not spend 34 billion dollars to whack any chances of
success and even jeopardise the chance of getting something really valuable
back in return.

The cloud services IBM provides can benefit from the knowledge and experience
Red Hat employees have.  But these employees will not get that experience or
being able to move forward if the RHEL stops innovating.  And RHEL builds on
Fedora.  And if IBM managed to really mess this up, they will loose a great
community which has helped Red Hat by far way achieving the position they
have.  Bare in mind that Red Hat's mission statement is all about this:

"To be the catalyst in communities of customers, contributors, and partners
    creating better technology the open source way."

With this deal, IBM didn't just get the Red Hat brand and Red Hat employees.
They also got a thriving and engaged community.  And a good leadership is able
to see this and the value this gives.  The Red Hat leadership definitely sees
this and I'm pretty sure they will ensure IBM understands this too.

Plus, IBM is not unfamiliar with open source and they also drive their own
open source projects too.  Just look at what they've done on the POWER
platforms and the OpenPower projects they've helped fuelling.

If IBM plays their cards well and also pays good attention to the advices I am
sure the Red Hat leadership will give them, this can go very well - for all -
including the Fedora community.

Now, you raise concerns about Fedora Workstation.  But what is the fundamental
base this variant of Fedora builds on?  Fedora Workstation, Fedora Server and
Fedora Atomic all builds on the same fundamental base.  And what wouldn't be a
better way to ensure Fedora is growing further into the developer areas than
to have a solid Fedora based desktop on top of the server side?  My point is,
jeopardizing Fedora Workstation doesn't only reduce the desktop experience; it
impacts the bigger scope of what Fedora is.  It puts the whole "empowering
widespread developer community" statement at risk.

Plus ... IBM does not, will not and can not manage or control the community
itself regardless of Red Hat being acquired or not.  It can only manage the
people on their payroll in regards to what they work on in their working
hours.  But the best way to kill passion is to tell people what not to do.
And this would go completely against the statement of the Senior Vice
President Arvind Krishna at IBM said: "Red Hat must, and will, remain
independent".  What would IBM in the end benefit from by killing passion and
risking reducing the impact Fedora has in a bigger scale - which is what
drives RHEL - and provides the knowledge and experience needed in the future
cloud solutions?

I do believe Fedora, as a whole, plays a fundamental role in the bigger
ecosystem for RHEL and towards the hybrid cloud everyone works towards.
Fedora plays a role providing a good experience and platform, all from the
developers and the sys-admins perspective to the end users, leading the way
towards the future enterprise solutions.  Which is why IBM wanted Red Hat.

[Gerald Henriksen]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 23:39:52 +0100, you wrote:
> Le 28/10/2018 à 22:32, Neal Gompa a écrit :
> > but the point is, IBM is not an open source company.
>
> Eclipse,

Not exactly a ringing endorsement given Eclipse's poor reputation.
> Linux (top 5 companies in term of kernel contributions), MQTT 
> (network protocol), OpenPower (hardware), etc.

All server oriented, whereas Red Hat has been server yes but a lot
more.

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 05:32:52PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> Red Hat has been a company I've admired since I got into Linux back in
> 2000. I genuinely worry that IBM will smother Red Hat and kill one of
> the largest producers of awesome FOSS with its bureaucratic
> proprietary-ness.

I wrote this yesterday on HN:
> Will Red Hat's acquisition hurt fedora?

In a word, no. It would be crazy for IBM to put at risk Red Hat's
  proven and highly profitable development model, and that all starts
  with Fedora.

Of course no one knows, and maybe IBM will kill Fedora, but I think
they would have to be especially stupid to do that and (despite what
you read) they are not stupid.

Rich.

[Andreas Tunek]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018, 22:22 Chris Murphy,  wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Antonio Trande 
> wrote:
> > "IBM to acquire Red Hat in deal valued at $34 billion"
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/28/ibm-is-reportedly-nearing-deal-to-acquire-re...
>
> Official press release.
>
> https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-ibm-creating-leading-hybrid-cloud-pro...
>
> The reported deal is $34 billion, and Red Hat's closing market cap on
> Friday was ~$20 billion, that's a big price premium. I'm not a lawyer
> let alone a securities lawyer, but my guess is if Red Hat management
> had refused the deal, I think they'd face shareholder lawsuits. So
> anyone looking to be mad, it would be completely understandable, but
> this is basically a shareholder driven deal.
>
> Also, "distinct unit" is vague and next to meaningless. Until
> acquisition details are released, there's no way of knowing exactly
> what level of autonomy Red Hat is going to have, let alone what it
> means for CentOS and Fedora.
>
> For what it's worth, SUSE and openSUSE have been through a few of
> these over the years, and openSUSE is still kicking.
>
> I hope many red hatters working in Fedora have stock and/or options!

/Andreas
> --
> Chris Murphy
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[Sam Varshavchik]

Chris Murphy writes:
> The reported deal is $34 billion, and Red Hat's closing market cap on
> Friday was ~$20 billion, that's a big price premium. I'm not a lawyer
> let alone a securities lawyer, but my guess is if Red Hat management
> had refused the deal, I think they'd face shareholder lawsuits.

Yeah. I bought a little bit of RHAT when they went public. This is going to  
be a nice little return on my investment. Not a fortune, by any means, but  
certainly a nice little bonus. That's pretty much the only good thing I can  
think of, right now.

[stan]

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018 21:17:50 +0100
Antonio Trande  wrote:
> "IBM to acquire Red Hat in deal valued at $34 billion"
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/28/ibm-is-reportedly-nearing-deal-to-acquire-re...

Business as usual for Fedora?

[Gerald B. Cox]

This was pretty much inevitable.  Out of companies with deep enough pockets - IBM is a good outcome.  In the end, it will be good for both companies.  It isn't helpful to have a negative attitude about it.  “Change is the law of life and those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future" - or as my boss is so fond of saying:  The train is leaving the station, get on board or get left behind.  This is a done deal.