5:09 a.m.
https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/issues/121
We use dhclient to get a DHCP address inside a minimal appliance.
To get this out of the way: NetworkManager or systemd are not options.
It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
recommending moving to dhcpcd:
https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
(we package this already, as does Debian), or another suggested
replacement, or if another team is going to maintain the code, or if
we will just keep packaging the last ISC version in Fedora?
Rich.
--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
Fedora Windows cross-compiler. Compile Windows programs, test, and
build Windows installers. Over 100 libraries supported.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MinGW
5:41 a.m.
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:10 AM Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> wrote:
https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/issues/121
We use dhclient to get a DHCP address inside a minimal appliance.
To get this out of the way: NetworkManager or systemd are not options.
It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
recommending moving to dhcpcd:
https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
(we package this already, as does Debian), or another suggested
replacement, or if another team is going to maintain the code, or if
we will just keep packaging the last ISC version in Fedora?
Upstream has replace it with Kea: https://www.isc.org/kea/
5:45 a.m.
On 30/05/2023 11:41, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:10 AM Richard W.M. Jones
<rjones(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
> https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/issues/121
>
> We use dhclient to get a DHCP address inside a minimal appliance.
> To get this out of the way: NetworkManager or systemd are not options.
>
> It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
>
> https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
>
> I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
> recommending moving to dhcpcd:
>
> https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
>
> (we package this already, as does Debian), or another suggested
> replacement, or if another team is going to maintain the code, or if
> we will just keep packaging the last ISC version in Fedora?
Upstream has replace it with Kea: https://www.isc.org/kea/
That's a server - it doesn't replace the client component.
Tom
--
Tom Hughes (tom(a)compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/
5:57 a.m.
* Richard W. M. Jones:
I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
recommending moving to dhcpcd:
https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
systemd-networkd has an integrated DHCP client, hasn't it?
Thanks,
Florian
6:04 a.m.
On 30/05/2023 11:57, Florian Weimer wrote:
* Richard W. M. Jones:
> I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
> recommending moving to dhcpcd:
>
> https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
systemd-networkd has an integrated DHCP client, hasn't it?
It does yes, and it's what I use on most machines.
Tom
--
Tom Hughes (tom(a)compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/
6:07 a.m.
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:05:39AM +0000, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 10:57 AM Florian Weimer
<fweimer(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> systemd-networkd has an integrated DHCP client, hasn't it?
Yes (and I have migrated a number of my systems to
using systemd-networkd), but Richard said systemd
is not an option.
We really need just a dhcp client, no baggage.
Rich.
--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
virt-top is 'top' for virtual machines. Tiny program with many
powerful monitoring features, net stats, disk stats, logging, etc.
http://people.redhat.com/~rjones/virt-top
6:18 a.m.
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:08 AM Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> wrote:
We really need just a dhcp client, no baggage.
Busybox distributes Udhcpc, a small dhcp client
intended for embedded systems, and perhaps
might be a longer term viable solution for minimal
appliances.
And while I never looked at them, both perl and
python have dhcp client libraries that might be
able to be part of a possible solution.
7:45 a.m.
Once upon a time, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> said:
It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
I'm a little surprised that nobody has forked this to continue
maintaining it. dhcpd is widely used, and kea is far from a drop-in
replacement.
--
Chris Adams <linux(a)cmadams.net>
7:55 a.m.
On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 08:46, Chris Adams <linux(a)cmadams.net> wrote:
Once upon a time, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> said:
> It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
>
> https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
I'm a little surprised that nobody has forked this to continue
maintaining it. dhcpd is widely used, and kea is far from a drop-in
replacement.
It is also not sexy software and you have to deal with a very hornery set
of bug reports where everything going wrong in any office is of course
blamed on DHCP. [You also need to know about the deep intricacies of a ton
of flags and settings which may have stated RFC uses but have been misused
for decades because some hardware decided to reuse a flag for a boot-time
option. You 'fix' an issue and you usually find you broke some key
infrastructure no one 'knew' about except someone who retired 4 to 10 years
ago.
With that, I can see why ISC is 'burying' the software for some poor sucker
to take up.
--
Stephen Smoogen, Red Hat Automotive
Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle.
-- Ian MacClaren
8:33 a.m.
* Chris Adams:
Once upon a time, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> said:
> It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
>
> https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
I'm a little surprised that nobody has forked this to continue
maintaining it. dhcpd is widely used, and kea is far from a drop-in
replacement.
It's … just not very good. A lot of the logic resides in a shell script
that runs as root, uses bash arithmetic expansion, and processes
untrusted data from the network. That's not a good combination at all.
Thanks,
Florian
1:44 p.m.
Once upon a time, Florian Weimer <fweimer(a)redhat.com> said:
* Chris Adams:
> Once upon a time, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> said:
>> It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
>>
>> https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
>
> I'm a little surprised that nobody has forked this to continue
> maintaining it. dhcpd is widely used, and kea is far from a drop-in
> replacement.
It's … just not very good. A lot of the logic resides in a shell script
that runs as root, uses bash arithmetic expansion, and processes
untrusted data from the network. That's not a good combination at all.
Well, I was really talking about dhcpd, not dhclient.
--
Chris Adams <linux(a)cmadams.net>
6:24 a.m.
On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 14:45, Chris Adams <linux(a)cmadams.net> wrote:
Once upon a time, Florian Weimer <fweimer(a)redhat.com> said:
> * Chris Adams:
>
> > Once upon a time, Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> said:
> >> It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
> >>
> >> https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
> >
> > I'm a little surprised that nobody has forked this to continue
> > maintaining it. dhcpd is widely used, and kea is far from a drop-in
> > replacement.
>
> It's … just not very good. A lot of the logic resides in a shell script
> that runs as root, uses bash arithmetic expansion, and processes
> untrusted data from the network. That's not a good combination at all.
Well, I was really talking about dhcpd, not dhclient.
Yes. My apologies to you and everyone else. You said that several times and
I just went blathering on dhcpd versus dhclient.
--
Stephen Smoogen, Red Hat Automotive
Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are fighting a hard battle.
-- Ian MacClaren
9:11 a.m.
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:09:39AM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/issues/121
We use dhclient to get a DHCP address inside a minimal appliance.
To get this out of the way: NetworkManager or systemd are not options.
It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
recommending moving to dhcpcd:
https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
(we package this already, as does Debian), or another suggested
replacement, or if another team is going to maintain the code, or if
we will just keep packaging the last ISC version in Fedora?
Personally, I see dhcpcd is the logical option here. It's a nice and simple
client and actively maintained. It is disconnected from any particular init
system making it appealing for appliances and other special use cases.
Given ISC dropping dhclient, we should probably be doing the same in Fedora.
--
David Cantrell <dcantrell(a)redhat.com>
Red Hat, Inc. | Boston, MA | EST5EDT
11:14 a.m.
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 10:11:21AM -0400, David Cantrell wrote:
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:09:39AM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/issues/121
>
> We use dhclient to get a DHCP address inside a minimal appliance.
> To get this out of the way: NetworkManager or systemd are not options.
>
> It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
>
> https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
>
> I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
> recommending moving to dhcpcd:
>
> https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
>
> (we package this already, as does Debian), or another suggested
> replacement, or if another team is going to maintain the code, or if
> we will just keep packaging the last ISC version in Fedora?
Personally, I see dhcpcd is the logical option here. It's a nice and simple
client and actively maintained. It is disconnected from any particular init
system making it appealing for appliances and other special use cases.
Given ISC dropping dhclient, we should probably be doing the same in Fedora.
This seems like the best plan, although we should probably communicate
it somehow and find out what Fedora packages are affected. A Fedora
systemwide change maybe.
Rich.
--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
nbdkit - Flexible, fast NBD server with plugins
https://gitlab.com/nbdkit/nbdkit
11:34 a.m.
This activity has been started ~3 years ago:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/dhclient_deprecation#Dependencies
and some dependencies have been cleaned up (dracut iirc) since then.
--
Pavel
On Tue, May 30, 2023, at 18:14, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 10:11:21AM -0400, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:09:39AM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/issues/121
> >
> > We use dhclient to get a DHCP address inside a minimal appliance.
> > To get this out of the way: NetworkManager or systemd are not options.
> >
> > It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
> >
> > https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
> >
> > I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
> > recommending moving to dhcpcd:
> >
> > https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
> >
> > (we package this already, as does Debian), or another suggested
> > replacement, or if another team is going to maintain the code, or if
> > we will just keep packaging the last ISC version in Fedora?
>
> Personally, I see dhcpcd is the logical option here. It's a nice and simple
> client and actively maintained. It is disconnected from any particular init
> system making it appealing for appliances and other special use cases.
>
> Given ISC dropping dhclient, we should probably be doing the same in Fedora.
This seems like the best plan, although we should probably communicate
it somehow and find out what Fedora packages are affected. A Fedora
systemwide change maybe.
Rich.
--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
Read my programming and virtualization blog: http://rwmj.wordpress.com
nbdkit - Flexible, fast NBD server with plugins
https://gitlab.com/nbdkit/nbdkit
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9:18 a.m.
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 5:14 PM Richard W.M. Jones <rjones(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 10:11:21AM -0400, David Cantrell wrote:
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 11:09:39AM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/issues/121
> >
> > We use dhclient to get a DHCP address inside a minimal appliance.
> > To get this out of the way: NetworkManager or systemd are not options.
> >
> > It seems as if the ISC dhcp package has been EOL'd upstream:
> >
> > https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
> >
> > I wonder what our plans are for this package, such as whether we are
> > recommending moving to dhcpcd:
> >
> > https://roy.marples.name/projects/dhcpcd
> >
> > (we package this already, as does Debian), or another suggested
> > replacement, or if another team is going to maintain the code, or if
> > we will just keep packaging the last ISC version in Fedora?
>
> Personally, I see dhcpcd is the logical option here. It's a nice and simple
> client and actively maintained. It is disconnected from any particular init
> system making it appealing for appliances and other special use cases.
>
> Given ISC dropping dhclient, we should probably be doing the same in Fedora.
This seems like the best plan, although we should probably communicate
it somehow and find out what Fedora packages are affected. A Fedora
systemwide change maybe.
NetworkManager has defaulted to it's own dhcp client by default for
some time and systemd-networkd has it's own as well, I suspect actual
users are quite minimal. I'm not sure if anything like cloud-init uses
it but I also doubt it.
10:47 a.m.
On 5/31/23 9:18 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
NetworkManager has defaulted to it's own dhcp client by default
for
some time and systemd-networkd has it's own as well, I suspect actual
users are quite minimal. I'm not sure if anything like cloud-init uses
it but I also doubt it.
I'll come out of my shell to cough up as one of those "minimal" users.
I'm using it
only on a single server that is still using "network-scripts" for network
management. Yes, I know they are deprecated. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a
few other "network-scripts" users. The scripts call dhclient.
It would be nice if a change notice went out about it.
This email is not intended to be a "-1" or other negative response. I will end
up
changing network management to something else.
I'm not using NetworkManager due to an issue with IPv6 and SLAAC. Clients under the
server get an initial SLAAC IP from NetworkManager, but after the IP expires they
never get a new IP. I've asked upstream about it and didn't get anywhere. Granted,
this was 3 years ago now. Maybe things are better and I can try NetworkManager
again... or systemd-networkd.
3:15 p.m.
Michael Cronenworth wrote on Wed, May 31, 2023 at 10:47:24AM -0500:
I'm not using NetworkManager due to an issue with IPv6 and SLAAC.
Clients
under the server get an initial SLAAC IP from NetworkManager, but after the
IP expires they never get a new IP. I've asked upstream about it and didn't
get anywhere. Granted, this was 3 years ago now. Maybe things are better and
I can try NetworkManager again... or systemd-networkd.
Could that be the ipv6 "privacy" features?
There are two settings I'm aware of:
* ipv6.ip6-privacy ; that generates a random address regularly which
will be used for outgoing connections by default (2); it can be changed
to generate it or not use by default or not generate it at all
* ipv6.addr-gen-mode ; that sets the "main" stable address and should
default to stable-privacy, which ought to be stable but you can set it
to eui64 to generate from mac if it doesn't work.
In particular I think stable-privacy uses the connection's uuid, which
is random if you leave it all up to defaults for ethernet (defaults to
generating an in-memry config with dhcp at every boot afaiu); that
shouldn't change on renew but perhaps there's been some other similar
fuzziness to it.
This probably has already been explained when you brought up the issue
so I'm going to assume there was another problem, but in case it helps
feel free to give it a try.
(Not that I have anything against systemd-networkd, I use both depending
on the need for dynamic settings (e.g. laptop with wireless moving
around) or not)
--
Dominique Martinet | Asmadeus
331
days inactive
332
days old
19 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Chris Adams -
David Cantrell -
Dominique Martinet -
Florian Weimer -
Gary Buhrmaster -
Michael Cronenworth -
Pavel Zhukov -
Peter Robinson -
Richard W.M. Jones -
Stephen Smoogen -
Tom Hughes