12:29 a.m.
On 02/02/2013 02:39 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 02.02.2013 03:08, schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson:
> When I meet a maintainer in the project that stated to me "I have to talk to my
manager first" before upgrading his
> "component" that rings alarm bells to me, That gives me the feel that they
are maintaining their components as a
> part of their job not because they want to scratch an itch and want to!
jesus christ be gladful that companies like red hat are
paying people for development of free software and if
someone get paied for a job soemtimes he has to speak
with his managers
It's not like RH gives other company's the alternative to sponsor the
project now does it....
> I dont know about your parts but I grew up in environment where
slavery is not accepted
your definition of "slavery" is completly broken
If an RH employee is maintainer is maintaining a component in the
distribution and doing so because it's an part of his job but not
because he want's to I call that slavery especially when he has to go to
his manager to ask him if he is allowed to "upgrade" the component it to
it's latest release. Yes first hand I have experienced an RH employee
that has said I need to speak to my manager before he could upgrade the
component he was maintaining to the latest release and to me that's
pretty fucking alarming....
JBG
2:41 a.m.
New subject: Proposed F19 Feature: systemd features
Le samedi 02 février 2013 à 06:29 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" a
écrit :
On 02/02/2013 02:39 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 02.02.2013 03:08, schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson:
>> When I meet a maintainer in the project that stated to me "I have to talk
to my manager first" before upgrading his
>> "component" that rings alarm bells to me, That gives me the feel that
they are maintaining their components as a
>> part of their job not because they want to scratch an itch and want to!
> jesus christ be gladful that companies like red hat are
> paying people for development of free software and if
> someone get paied for a job soemtimes he has to speak
> with his managers
It's not like RH gives other company's the alternative to sponsor the
project now does it....
Depend on what you mean by "sponsorship". If that's :
"paying someone to work on it", there is. See people from puppetlabs,
for the easiest to find example
If that's :
"paying for infrastructure", there is too. There is the mirrors, there
is the servers, check the details with fedora-infrastructure, as I do
not have the details right there.
Now, there is some areas where this could be more open such as security
and legal, but that's highly sensitive topics due to the confidential
nature of some of the work ( ie, not so easy to open ). And unless
someone volunteer to do anything first, we will not be able to open more
( and trust me, just opening is not enough, you have to fix the process
as people try to integrate, or that's just useless ).
Now, if you have a suggestion on who want to sponsor fedora and why they
couldn't, I would gladly discuss and try to see what could be improved.
>> I dont know about your parts but I grew up in environment
where slavery is not accepted
> your definition of "slavery" is completly broken
If an RH employee is maintainer is maintaining a component in the
distribution and doing so because it's an part of his job but not
because he want's to I call that slavery especially when he has to go to
his manager to ask him if he is allowed to "upgrade" the component it to
it's latest release.
You can call it slavery as much as you want, that
doesn't mean it is.
Cf wikipedia : "
"Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be
bought and sold, and are forced to work. Slaves can be held against
their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and
deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand
compensation."
Comparing someone asking for advice for whatever reason to slavery is
insult to those that died and still die today in much more horrible
conditions that "sending a email to someone to see if that's ok".
Yes first hand I have experienced an RH employee
that has said I need to speak to my manager before he could upgrade the
component he was maintaining to the latest release and to me that's
pretty fucking alarming....
Maybe the employee was just too shy or just wanted to check with someone
with more experience about the distro ( or someone with a broader view
). Or maybe the employee just didn't know he could do it, or the impact,
not all people working on RH are experienced packagers. Without any
specific, your example are just unusable to anything but speculation.
We try to assume good faith in each others communication, and I hope you
do as well.
--
Michael Scherer
2:52 a.m.
New subject: Proposed F19 Feature: systemd features
On 02/02/2013 08:41 AM, Michael Scherer wrote:
Le samedi 02 février 2013 à 06:29 +0000, "Jóhann B.
Guðmundsson" a
écrit :
> On 02/02/2013 02:39 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> Am 02.02.2013 03:08, schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson:
>>> When I meet a maintainer in the project that stated to me "I have to
talk to my manager first" before upgrading his
>>> "component" that rings alarm bells to me, That gives me the feel
that they are maintaining their components as a
>>> part of their job not because they want to scratch an itch and want to!
>> jesus christ be gladful that companies like red hat are
>> paying people for development of free software and if
>> someone get paied for a job soemtimes he has to speak
>> with his managers
> It's not like RH gives other company's the alternative to sponsor the
> project now does it....
Depend on what you mean by "sponsorship". If that's :
"paying someone to work on it", there is. See people from puppetlabs,
for the easiest to find example
If that's :
"paying for infrastructure", there is too. There is the mirrors, there
is the servers, check the details with fedora-infrastructure, as I do
not have the details right there.
You even cant do that.
Now, there is some areas where this could be more open such as
security
and legal, but that's highly sensitive topics due to the confidential
nature of some of the work ( ie, not so easy to open ). And unless
someone volunteer to do anything first, we will not be able to open more
( and trust me, just opening is not enough, you have to fix the process
as people try to integrate, or that's just useless ).
Now, if you have a suggestion on who want to sponsor fedora and why they
couldn't, I would gladly discuss and try to see what could be improved.
Trademark issues "Fedora" is trademarked and owned by FH
>>> I dont know about your parts but I grew up in environment
where slavery is not accepted
>> your definition of "slavery" is completly broken
> If an RH employee is maintainer is maintaining a component in the
> distribution and doing so because it's an part of his job but not
> because he want's to I call that slavery especially when he has to go to
> his manager to ask him if he is allowed to "upgrade" the component it to
> it's latest release.
You can call it slavery as much as you want, that doesn't mean it is.
Cf wikipedia : "
"Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be
bought and sold, and are forced to work. Slaves can be held against
their will from the time of their capture, purchase or birth, and
deprived of the right to leave, to refuse to work, or to demand
compensation."
Comparing someone asking for advice for whatever reason to slavery is
insult to those that died and still die today in much more horrible
conditions that "sending a email to someone to see if that's ok".
For that I apologies since I took slavery as forcing individual to do
something he wanted not to do,
> Yes first hand I have experienced an RH employee
> that has said I need to speak to my manager before he could upgrade the
> component he was maintaining to the latest release and to me that's
> pretty fucking alarming....
Maybe the employee was just too shy or just wanted to check with someone
with more experience about the distro ( or someone with a broader view
). Or maybe the employee just didn't know he could do it, or the impact,
not all people working on RH are experienced packagers. Without any
specific, your example are just unusable to anything but speculation.
I cant reveal who it was without him being put in awkward situation
We try to assume good faith in each others communication, and I hope you
do as well.
No based on experience it has turned quite the opposed path for me. I
assume the worst in people and procedures that way I no longer get
disappointed.
JBG
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2 comments
2 participants
participants (2)
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Jóhann B. Guðmundsson -
Michael Scherer