Regarding behaviour of Gnome and Fedora members

[Ty Young]

Hi all,


Gnome recently has stirred up controversy lately and aren't taking other 
people's opinions very well, to say the least. So far they've locked 
three threads:


https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/gz6fks/we_must_all_speak_up/

https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h107as/i_agree_with_the_we_all_mu...



https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h0ml37/distrotube_has_posted_a_di...


They have engaged in racism and censorship in their subreddit's comment 
sections and, just recently, banned me for posting this article, which 
I've made:


https://medium.com/@youngty1997/gnome-needs-to-be-better-2151965fd663


You may read it for yourself. In it I cite violations of Gnome's Code of 
Conduct by members of the GNOME foundation or the GNOME 
foundation(gnome.org email address), both on their subreddit and from 
fedora-devel list. I tried to cite as much as possible but Gnome 
moderators refused to hand over the moderation logs for when they locked 
a thread for reporting a bug when asked. I'm confident that they know 
what I'm talking about but just refuse to hand it over.


Keep in mind that, in Gnome's subreddit rules, it's perfectly OK to 
criticize GNOME in GNOME's subreddit. It's even in the sidebar, which 
you cannot see on old reddit(something I've told them about multiple 
times, but they've ignored repeatedly to fix):


"We do not shy away from criticism, in fact, we encourage it!"


GNOME members have recently said that "This mixing of ideas from a wide 
range of backgrounds is something that has improved free and open source 
software, and it should be highly valued."


However, their actions by locking threads and now banned me for sharing 
an article I had made goes against this statement. To be crystal clear 
here, the opinions shared in the article are not *just* my own. You may 
also read people who agree with my opinions in comment sections of the 
GNOME subreddit and Fedora subreddit which I shared it to:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/h7de62/gnome_needs_to_be_better/

https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h7ddom/gnome_needs_to_be_better/


Gnome did not say that any new threads on the topic could be made nor 
was there any rule breakage that I could find. I would have loved to 
cite more things but alas, I don't have access to the information.


Sadly the moderators of each respective subreddits have censored the 
threads, and not even snew shows them for some reason. I've tried 
contacting the fedora subreddit moderators but I have a feeling they 
won't ever answer.


I was planning on fileing a Code of Conduct violation, but GNOME refused 
to turn over the requested moderation logs, so I couldn't do so and, 
Gnome's Code of Conduct hints as what the result will be anyway. I have 
zero confidence that anything will be done, so here I am sending an email.


So, could anything be done about any of this?

[Emmanuel Seyman]

* Ty Young [12/06/2020 05:50] :
>  
>  So, could anything be done about any of this? 
I would propose that we keep discussions not related to the development
of Fedora off the devel@ mailing-list.

Emmanuel

[Ty Young]

On 6/12/20 7:10 AM, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
>  * Ty Young [12/06/2020 05:50] :
> > So, could anything be done about any of this?
>  I would propose that we keep discussions not related to the development
>  of Fedora off the devel@ mailing-list. 

Hi,


Some of the comments mentioned in my article took place on this mailing 
list. Would it not be appropriate to post it here as a result? Where on 
Fedora's mailing lists should I post it to?


Thanks.


>
> Emmanuel
> _______________________________________________
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[Emmanuel Seyman]

* Ty Young [12/06/2020 07:13] :
>  
>  Some of the comments mentioned in my article took place on this mailing
>  list. Would it not be appropriate to post it here as a result? 
No, I don't think so.

>                                                                 Where
> on
>  Fedora's mailing lists should I post it to? 
I don't think this would be considered on topic for any of Fedora's lists
that I know of thus I would refrain from posting to any of them.

Emmanuel

[Matthew Miller]

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 02:10:44PM +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
>  I would propose that we keep discussions not related to the
> development
>  of Fedora off the devel@ mailing-list. 
Yeah. This is off-topic.

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Alexander Ploumistos]

So in a nutshell:
1. You've approached several FLOSS communities, even though you
clearly disagree with their core values.
2. You've complained/filed bugs for things you consider to be
problematic, stemming from the basic principles of said communities.
3. Members of these communities have explained multiple times, in
every possible tone that these are non-issues for them and that they
have absolutely no intention of compromising their tenets and in the
end they asked you to take a hike.
4. Now you're back on the "Development discussions related to Fedora"
mailing list, seeking what exactly? To reprove the members of both
communities that have had enough of you?

Have you thought of switching to an OS/DE/whatever that better aligns
with your principles instead of asking people to go against theirs?

[John M. Harris Jr]

On Friday, June 12, 2020 3:50:59 AM MST Ty Young wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  
>  
>  Gnome recently has stirred up controversy lately and aren't taking other 
>  people's opinions very well, to say the least. So far they've locked 
>  three threads:
>  
>  
>  https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/gz6fks/we_must_all_speak_up/
>  
>  https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h107as/i_agree_with_the_we_all_must_
>  speak_up_and_the/  
 
>  
>  https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h0ml37/distrotube_has_posted_a_disgu
>  sting_video_calling/ 
 
>  
>  They have engaged in racism and censorship in their subreddit's comment 
>  sections and, just recently, banned me for posting this article, which 
>  I've made:
>  
>  
>  https://medium.com/@youngty1997/gnome-needs-to-be-better-2151965fd663
>  
>  
>  You may read it for yourself. In it I cite violations of Gnome's Code of 
>  Conduct by members of the GNOME foundation or the GNOME 
>  foundation(gnome.org email address), both on their subreddit and from 
>  fedora-devel list. I tried to cite as much as possible but Gnome 
>  moderators refused to hand over the moderation logs for when they locked 
>  a thread for reporting a bug when asked. I'm confident that they know 
>  what I'm talking about but just refuse to hand it over.
>  
>  
>  Keep in mind that, in Gnome's subreddit rules, it's perfectly OK to 
>  criticize GNOME in GNOME's subreddit. It's even in the sidebar, which 
>  you cannot see on old reddit(something I've told them about multiple 
>  times, but they've ignored repeatedly to fix):
>  
>  
>  "We do not shy away from criticism, in fact, we encourage it!"
>  
>  
>  GNOME members have recently said that "This mixing of ideas from a wide 
>  range of backgrounds is something that has improved free and open source 
>  software, and it should be highly valued."
>  
>  
>  However, their actions by locking threads and now banned me for sharing 
>  an article I had made goes against this statement. To be crystal clear 
>  here, the opinions shared in the article are not *just* my own. You may 
>  also read people who agree with my opinions in comment sections of the 
>  GNOME subreddit and Fedora subreddit which I shared it to:
>  
>  
>  https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/h7de62/gnome_needs_to_be_better/
>  
>  https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h7ddom/gnome_needs_to_be_better/
>  
>  
>  Gnome did not say that any new threads on the topic could be made nor 
>  was there any rule breakage that I could find. I would have loved to 
>  cite more things but alas, I don't have access to the information.
>  
>  
>  Sadly the moderators of each respective subreddits have censored the 
>  threads, and not even snew shows them for some reason. I've tried 
>  contacting the fedora subreddit moderators but I have a feeling they 
>  won't ever answer.
>  
>  
>  I was planning on fileing a Code of Conduct violation, but GNOME refused 
>  to turn over the requested moderation logs, so I couldn't do so and, 
>  Gnome's Code of Conduct hints as what the result will be anyway. I have 
>  zero confidence that anything will be done, so here I am sending an email.
>  
>  
>  So, could anything be done about any of this? 
The projects themselves don't care what we actually support, it's the views of 
a very vocal handful that get thrown onto those sorts of things. Not a whole 
lot we can do about it, Ty.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr.

[Samuel Sieb]

On 6/12/20 3:50 AM, Ty Young wrote:
>  Gnome recently has stirred up controversy lately and aren't
> taking other 
>  people's opinions very well, to say the least. So far they've locked 
>  three threads: 
It doesn't look to me like it's Gnome stirring up the controversy and 
they've been responding very civilly to horrible comments.

>  They have engaged in racism and censorship in their subreddit's
> comment 
>  sections and, just recently, banned me for posting this article, which 
>  I've made:
>  
>  https://medium.com/@youngty1997/gnome-needs-to-be-better-2151965fd663 
And have since deleted.

I don't know what your userid is on reddit, but I certainly don't see 
anyone from Gnome doing anything wrong.

>  I was planning on fileing a Code of Conduct violation, but GNOME
> refused 
>  to turn over the requested moderation logs, so I couldn't do so and, 
>  Gnome's Code of Conduct hints as what the result will be anyway. I have 
>  zero confidence that anything will be done, so here I am sending an email.
>  
>  So, could anything be done about any of this? 
How is this related to Fedora?  This is not the place for this.