10:35 p.m.
Ben Cotton wrote:
Red Hat Bugzilla has introduced a 12 month lifetimes for API keys.
You
must replace your API keys at least once a year. Additionally, any API
key that is not used for 30 days will be suspended but can be
re-enabled on the account's preferences tab.
So Red Hat Bugzilla API use again got unfriendlier.
The previous change was already unacceptable IMHO (going as far as
invalidating any passwords accidentally attempted to be used through the
API!), this makes it even worse.
IMHO, Fedora really needs its own bug tracker that is not driven by this
kind of enterprise-grade security requirements.
Kevin Kofler
1:14 a.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
I wont be using the API again due to the 30 day limit.
If they change the password requirement again I will dump redhat bugzilla!
11:54 a.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 05:35:36AM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
IMHO, Fedora really needs its own bug tracker that is not driven by
this
kind of enterprise-grade security requirements.
The "good news" is that Red Hat has announced a move away from Bugzilla for
future products. (They're going to Jira.) RH Bugzilla isn't officially shut
down, but its days are numbered. We need to come up with something else.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
12:40 p.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 5:54 PM Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
The "good news" is that Red Hat has announced a move away
from Bugzilla for
future products. (They're going to Jira.) RH Bugzilla isn't officially shut
down, but its days are numbered. We need to come up with something else.
"Good" is in the eyes of the beholder.
I can't say I am enamoured of bugzilla (any variant),
but it has been basically an adequate solution.
Having a "one pane of glass" view of both RH EL and
Fedora bugs/issues (which are sometimes related)
is something I am concerned will be lost when RH
moves issues to jira (and I really don't look forward
to having to look two different places for possible
bug reports or resolutions).
I seem to recall that some of the Fedora people were
talking about creating a document that would show
what "we" use bugzilla for so that a future issue/bug
tracker solution (whatever that might be) could be
evaluated and any prep work needed to potentially
unhook Fedora's procedures/processes from bugzilla
could be started early (should the eventual chosen
solution not be able to provide those features).
Did that happen, and if so, where is it located?
And does the document capture other wants/desires
for new/dropped functionality?
12:47 p.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 1:42 PM Gary Buhrmaster
<gary.buhrmaster(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I seem to recall that some of the Fedora people were
talking about creating a document that would show
what "we" use bugzilla for so that a future issue/bug
tracker solution (whatever that might be) could be
evaluated and any prep work needed to potentially
unhook Fedora's procedures/processes from bugzilla
could be started early (should the eventual chosen
solution not be able to provide those features).
Did that happen, and if so, where is it located?
I have a survey prepared that will be opened once the F37
retrospective survey is done. This will give us a basis for evaluating
our requirements as we look for possible replacements.
--
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
1:08 p.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 6:48 PM Ben Cotton <bcotton(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I have a survey prepared that will be opened once the F37
retrospective survey is done. This will give us a basis for evaluating
our requirements as we look for possible replacements.
Thanks for planning on the followup.
10:55 p.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
Matthew Miller wrote:
The "good news" is that Red Hat has announced a move away
from Bugzilla
for future products. (They're going to Jira.)
Ah right, I had forgotten about that issue. I do not think I will ever
understand the fascination some projects have for JIRA. It is proprietary,
and IMHO the web UI for users to report bugs in JIRA is very confusing at
times. (The Bugzilla one can be confusing at times as well, but at least it
is familiarly confusing. ;-) )
So Fedora will have to move on anyway. Hopefully not to a proprietary
solution as RHEL is doing.
Kevin Kofler
10:55 a.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 05:55:55AM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
Ah right, I had forgotten about that issue. I do not think I will
ever
understand the fascination some projects have for JIRA. It is proprietary,
and IMHO the web UI for users to report bugs in JIRA is very confusing at
times. (The Bugzilla one can be confusing at times as well, but at least it
is familiarly confusing. ;-) )
Middle management *LOVES LOVES LOVES* Jira.
As for everyone else... let's just say that it's not repeatable in polite
company.
(I admit I'm surprised that "Free Software for Everything" Red Hat is
chosing to base something so fundamental to their business on a highly
proprietary tool. I suppose O365 is just a matter of time...)
- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org (email&xmpp)
@pizza:shaftnet dot org (matrix)
Dowling Park, FL speachy (libra.chat)
2:46 p.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On 2/24/23 11:55, Solomon Peachy via devel wrote:
(I admit I'm surprised that "Free Software for
Everything" Red Hat is
chosing to base something so fundamental to their business on a highly
proprietary tool. I suppose O365 is just a matter of time...)
Not O365, but
Google Workspace... that ship sailed some time ago (I'm
sending this using Thunderbird going through Google Workspace, so at
least I don't have to *see* GMail...)
--
Kevin P. Fleming
He/Him/His
Principal Program Manager, RHEL
Red Hat US/Eastern Time Zone
8:55 a.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
Kevin P. Fleming wrote:
Not O365, but Google Workspace... that ship sailed some time ago
(I'm
sending this using Thunderbird going through Google Workspace, so at
least I don't have to *see* GMail...)
#facepalm# 🤦
Kevin Kofler
3:28 p.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On Fri, 2023-02-24 at 11:55 -0500, Solomon Peachy via devel wrote:
On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 05:55:55AM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel
wrote:
> Ah right, I had forgotten about that issue. I do not think I will ever
> understand the fascination some projects have for JIRA. It is proprietary,
> and IMHO the web UI for users to report bugs in JIRA is very confusing at
> times. (The Bugzilla one can be confusing at times as well, but at least it
> is familiarly confusing. ;-) )
Middle management *LOVES LOVES LOVES* Jira.
Not middle management is generally as confused as other users.
Where Jira is really helpful is project management, and when you have
many, large, interconnected sub teams and sub projects, Jira really has
tooling that helps.
Of course like all tools it has its good things, and its bad
compromises, the UI being one of them. But the data model behind it
allows a lot of functionality (it is basically an SQL database), and
the dashboards and other prepackaged widgets allow exploration of the
data to a level that bugzilla does not allow (or if it does at
considerably harder cost, so high very few ever bother trying).
As for everyone else... let's just say that it's not
repeatable in polite company.
(I admit I'm surprised that "Free Software for Everything" Red Hat is
chosing to base something so fundamental to their business on a highly
proprietary tool. I suppose O365 is just a matter of time...)
One of the bad things is that Jira is not Open Source, and I think
we'll ultimately may end up regretting the choice, but not in the short
term (there is no equivalent really in the open source world) ... and
pragmatically, in the long run we are all dead, so while we wait for
something better, we will have to use the least worst.
Simo.
--
Simo Sorce
RHEL Crypto Team
Red Hat, Inc
10:25 p.m.
New subject: Changes to Bugzilla API key requirements
On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 4:56 PM Solomon Peachy via devel
<devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
(I admit I'm surprised that "Free Software for
Everything" Red Hat is
chosing to base something so fundamental to their business on a highly
proprietary tool. I suppose O365 is just a matter of time...)
They probably also use proprietary ERP systems,
as while critical to running the company, they are
not fundamental to their services or offerings.
It is important to remember that bugzilla is
more of an issue tracker, while Jira (and
others such as Redmine) are a step up to
be project trackers. Once you get beyond a
certain size, you find you need to track the
entire project's status and progress, and not
just at the issue level.
It is sometimes possible to use an issue tracker
as a poor project tracker by creating a mega
issue which "depends on" other specific issues,
but it is not quite the same level of integration
as a project management tool, which also can
deal with resourcing and scheduling, and, as
you mention, produce detailed reports so
management can show they and their team
is producing results (and value).
While there are certainly some FLOSS tools
out there for project management, they tend
not to be in the same class or ability to scale
as tools such as Jira, and while some might
want to see such solutions be built and
available for free, building a viable business
providing such a solution is going to be
really hard (if not impossible). I expect Jira
(and its ilk) to be the tool chosen for larger
organizations and projects for quite some
time (even as I really dislike its default UI).
431
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437
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11 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
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Ben Cotton -
Gary Buhrmaster -
Kevin Kofler -
Kevin P. Fleming -
Leigh Scott -
Matthew Miller -
Simo Sorce -
Solomon Peachy