Which arch should we add to Copr?

[Dominik Turecek]

Hello,

we are now able to build for armhfp and s390x architectures in Copr.
However, due to storage issues, we can enable only one of these
two right now. Which architecture would you prefer to have?

You can express your opinion either here or in the doodle:
https://doodle.com/poll/vh2nxwdaicgpw2hv

Thanks for letting us know your preference.

Dominik

[Fabio Valentini]

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 12:49 Dominik Turecek <dturecek(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Hello,
>
>  we are now able to build for armhfp and s390x architectures in Copr.
>  However, due to storage issues, we can enable only one of these
>  two right now. Which architecture would you prefer to have?
>  
Support for armv7hl would be great, since it's the only fully supported
32bit architecture that's left in fedora.

I'd also hazard to guess that more people are using fedora on a raspberry
pi (or similar) than on a mainframe ;)

Fabio


>  You can express your opinion either here or in the doodle:
>  https://doodle.com/poll/vh2nxwdaicgpw2hv
>
>  Thanks for letting us know your preference.
>
>  Dominik
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[Dan Horák]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 12:48:33 +0200
Dominik Turecek <dturecek(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Hello,
>  
>  we are now able to build for armhfp and s390x architectures in Copr. 
sounds great, but are they using a real hw or are they emulated (and
how)?


		Dan

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 17. 09. 19 v 13:12 Dan Horák napsal(a):
>  sounds great, but are they using a real hw or are they emulated (and
>  how)? 
It will be emulated using --forcearch
https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/wiki/Feature-forcearch

-- 
Miroslav Suchy, RHCA
Red Hat, Associate Manager ABRT/Copr, #brno, #fedora-buildsys

[Dan Horák]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:01:48 +0200
Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Dne 17. 09. 19 v 13:12 Dan Horák napsal(a):
>  > sounds great, but are they using a real hw or are they emulated (and
>  > how)?
>  
>  It will be emulated using --forcearch
>  https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/wiki/Feature-forcearch 
hm, as much as I would like to have more arches in Copr, I don't think
the emulation is production quality. Recent changes in glibc exposed
hard-to-find bugs in the s390x TCG in qemu and I saw at least one
emulation related bug for armv7 as well.

What blocks you from using armv7 VMs on aarch64 hosts?


		Dan

[Nicolas Chauvet]

Le mar. 17 sept. 2019 à 15:51, Dan Horák <dan(a)danny.cz&gt; a écrit :
>  On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:01:48 +0200
>  Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>
>  > Dne 17. 09. 19 v 13:12 Dan Horák napsal(a):
>  > > sounds great, but are they using a real hw or are they emulated (and
>  > > how)?
>  >
>  > It will be emulated using --forcearch
>  > https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/wiki/Feature-forcearch
>
>  hm, as much as I would like to have more arches in Copr, I don't think
>  the emulation is production quality. Recent changes in glibc exposed
>  hard-to-find bugs in the s390x TCG in qemu and I saw at least one
>  emulation related bug for armv7 as well.
>
>  What blocks you from using armv7 VMs on aarch64 hosts? 
Or even using armv7hl "chroot" on aarch64 host ?
As we are not supposed to be emulated once the hw support it and the
kernel is built with COMPAT (which in the case in Fedora).

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 17. 09. 19 v 15:50 Dan Horák napsal(a):
>  hm, as much as I would like to have more arches in Copr, I don't
> think 
the emulation is production quality.

At least we can help reveal those bugs.

>  What blocks you from using armv7 VMs on aarch64 hosts? 
I was not able to do a successful native build using
   mock -r fedora-30-armhfp

The CPU there is:
Architecture:        aarch64
Byte Order:          Little Endian
CPU(s):              10
On-line CPU(s) list: 0-9
Thread(s) per core:  1
Core(s) per socket:  10
Socket(s):           1
NUMA node(s):        1
Vendor ID:           Cavium
Model:               1
Model name:          ThunderX 88XX
Stepping:            0x1
BogoMIPS:            200.00
NUMA node0 CPU(s):   0-9
Flags:               fp asimd evtstrm aes pmull sha1 sha2 crc32 cpuid

-- 
Miroslav Suchy, RHCA
Red Hat, Associate Manager ABRT/Copr, #brno, #fedora-buildsys

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 09:51, Dan Horák <dan(a)danny.cz&gt; wrote:
>  On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:01:48 +0200
>  Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>
>  > Dne 17. 09. 19 v 13:12 Dan Horák napsal(a):
>  > > sounds great, but are they using a real hw or are they emulated (and
>  > > how)?
>  >
>  > It will be emulated using --forcearch
>  > https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/wiki/Feature-forcearch
>
>  hm, as much as I would like to have more arches in Copr, I don't think
>  the emulation is production quality. Recent changes in glibc exposed
>  hard-to-find bugs in the s390x TCG in qemu and I saw at least one
>  emulation related bug for armv7 as well.
>
>  What blocks you from using armv7 VMs on aarch64 hosts?
>  
Most of the  aarch64 hardware Fedora has  does not allow for armv7
aarch64 hosts.. there is only a limited set of aarch64 boxes which
allow this. The ones we do are dedicated to building and QAing Fedora
OS. Trying to get more hardware which is aarch64->arm7 capable has
been budget constrained.



-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 09:51, Dan Horák <dan(a)danny.cz&gt; wrote:
>  On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:01:48 +0200
>  Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>
>  > Dne 17. 09. 19 v 13:12 Dan Horák napsal(a):
>  > > sounds great, but are they using a real hw or are they emulated (and
>  > > how)?
>  >
>  > It will be emulated using --forcearch
>  > https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/wiki/Feature-forcearch
>
>  hm, as much as I would like to have more arches in Copr, I don't think
>  the emulation is production quality. Recent changes in glibc exposed 
I should have brought this up in the earlier email:

What is the definition of production quality that you are using? What
is the definition that COPR provides? Do they match, only mostly
match, not at all?




-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

[Martin Kolman]

----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Dan Horák" <dan(a)danny.cz&gt;
>  To: devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 3:50:59 PM
>  Subject: Re: Which arch should we add to Copr?
>  
>  On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:01:48 +0200
>  Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  
>  > Dne 17. 09. 19 v 13:12 Dan Horák napsal(a):
>  > > sounds great, but are they using a real hw or are they emulated (and
>  > > how)?
>  > 
>  > It will be emulated using --forcearch
>  > https://github.com/rpm-software-management/mock/wiki/Feature-forcearch
>  
>  hm, as much as I would like to have more arches in Copr, I don't think
>  the emulation is production quality. Recent changes in glibc exposed
>  hard-to-find bugs in the s390x TCG in qemu and I saw at least one
>  emulation related bug for armv7 as well. 
It might not be perfect, but AFAIK at
least one Linux distribution (Sailfish OS)
has been using emulated 32-bit ARM on x86_64 hosts since 2013 to build everything
without any native build hardware. Their OBS instance can be found & inspected here:
https://build.merproject.org/

> 
> What blocks you from using armv7 VMs on aarch64 hosts?
> 
> 
> 		Dan
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>

[Pavel Raiskup]

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 12:48:33 PM CEST Dominik Turecek wrote:
>  we are now able to build for armhfp and s390x architectures in Copr.
Important note; the new arch is going to be built by `mock --forcearch`
feature (qemu-user-static).  We don't have native builders.

Pavel