clarification of package naming guidelines

[Dave Love]

Could someone clarify the rules on package naming
<https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Naming?rd=Packaging:NamingGuidel...

Background:  I've packaged something its author calls SuperLU_DIST using
the rpm name superlu_dist.  I interpreted that as consistent with those
guidelines as well as allowing it to be searched for, and without the
inconvenience of mixed case.  Others opinions are that it should be
changed to superlu-dist or SuperLUDIST, which would mean you couldn't
search the repository for the proper name of the software, like the
existing SuperLUMT v. SuperLU_MT.  (I think that case-insensitive search
is appropriate, but again others don't.)

[Mattia Verga]

Il 01/12/2016 13:35, Dave Love ha scritto:
>  Could someone clarify the rules on package naming
>
> <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Naming?rd=Packaging:NamingGuidel...
>
>  Background:  I've packaged something its author calls SuperLU_DIST using
>  the rpm name superlu_dist.  I interpreted that as consistent with those
>  guidelines as well as allowing it to be searched for, and without the
>  inconvenience of mixed case.  Others opinions are that it should be
>  changed to superlu-dist or SuperLUDIST, which would mean you couldn't
>  search the repository for the proper name of the software, like the
>  existing SuperLUMT v. SuperLU_MT.  (I think that case-insensitive search
>  is appropriate, but again others don't.)
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org 
 From the
Packaging Naming Guidelines:
" General Naming
Package names should be in lower case and use dashes in preference to 
underscores"

In the next chapter is said:
" Separators
When naming packages for Fedora, the maintainer must use the dash '-' as 
the delimiter for name parts. The maintainer must NOT use an underscore 
'_', a plus '+', or a period '.' as a delimiter.
...
There are a few exceptions to the no underscore '_' rule.
...
packages where the upstream name naturally contains an underscore are 
excluded from this."

So, in my opinion, you did it right naming your package "superlu_dist". 
For sure, you MUST not use uppercase letters.

Mattia

[Gerald B. Cox]

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mattia Verga <mattia.verga(a)tiscali.it&gt;
wrote:

>  So, in my opinion, you did it right naming your package "superlu_dist".
>  For sure, you MUST not use uppercase letters. 

I believe there is a bit of leeway for the packager here.  You SHOULD not
use uppercase; it isn't an edict - it's a guideline.  That said,
I agree that lowercase is far preferable.  We all know what a PITA it is to
try to figure out package names in the repository.  That is why
the guidelines state you SHOULD use lowercase and hyphens instead of
underscores.  Turning the attention to the underscore, I would in this
instance change it to a hyphen:  so the package would be named
"superlu-dist".  Why, because that is what most people are going to use and
what how the vast majority of packages are named.

Bottom line, it's your decision as the packager (within the parameters
stated in the guideline - which mean if you really wanted you could just
keep the name SuperLU_DIST - but there are reasons explained in the
packaging guidelines why that isn't a good idea.

[Dave Love]

Thanks for the comments.

"Gerald B. Cox" <gbcox(a)bzb.us&gt; writes:

>  On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Mattia Verga
> <mattia.verga(a)tiscali.it&gt;
>  wrote:
>
> >
> > So, in my opinion, you did it right naming your package "superlu_dist".
> > For sure, you MUST not use uppercase letters.
>
>
>  I believe there is a bit of leeway for the packager here.  You SHOULD not
>  use uppercase; it isn't an edict - it's a guideline. 
Yes, but I think the guidelines need modifying because people don't
agree about them, and they're not helping consistency.  Perhaps they
could just use some re-wording.

>  That said,
>  I agree that lowercase is far preferable.  We all know what a PITA it is to
>  try to figure out package names in the repository.  That is why
>  the guidelines state you SHOULD use lowercase and hyphens instead of
>  underscores.  Turning the attention to the underscore, I would in this
>  instance change it to a hyphen:  so the package would be named
>  "superlu-dist".  Why, because that is what most people are going to use and
>  what how the vast majority of packages are named. 
Why are most people going to use superlu-dist when that's not the proper
name of the software?  I'm not familiar with a SuperLU user community,
but I think I can speak about DL_POLY as a DL veteran; I packaged it as
"dl_poly" and wouldn't expect people to call it "dl-poly"
(outside
Debian) or "dlpoly".  The majority don't have underscores as part of
their proper name, but the guidelines cover ones that do.

[Jonathan Wakely]

On 05/12/16 11:30 +0000, Dave Love wrote:
> Why are most people going to use superlu-dist when that's not the
> proper
> name of the software?  I'm not familiar with a SuperLU user community,
> but I think I can speak about DL_POLY as a DL veteran; I packaged it as
> "dl_poly" and wouldn't expect people to call it "dl-poly"
> (outside
> Debian) or "dlpoly".  The majority don't have underscores as part of
> their proper name, but the guidelines cover ones that do. 
I agree with preserving an underscore if it's there in the upstream
name. The guidelines mean that for a program called "Foo Bar" we
should name the package foo-bar not foo_bar.  But when the official
name has an underscore I see no need to replace it.

[Gerald B. Cox]

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 3:30 AM, Dave Love <d.love(a)liverpool.ac.uk&gt; wrote:

>  Why are most people going to use superlu-dist when that's not the proper
>  name of the software?  I'm not familiar with a SuperLU user community,
>  but I think I can speak about DL_POLY as a DL veteran; I packaged it as
>  "dl_poly" and wouldn't expect people to call it "dl-poly"
> (outside
>  Debian) or "dlpoly".  The majority don't have underscores as part of
>  their proper name, but the guidelines cover ones that do. 

Who are most people?  Nobody is changing the name of the software.  That is
entirely
under the control of upstream.    We're discussing how it is represented in
the Fedora repository.
That is the purview of the Fedora project, not upstream.

[Dave Love]

"Gerald B. Cox" <gbcox(a)bzb.us&gt; writes:

>  On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 3:30 AM, Dave Love
> <d.love(a)liverpool.ac.uk&gt; wrote:
>
> >
> > Why are most people going to use superlu-dist when that's not the proper
> > name of the software?  I'm not familiar with a SuperLU user community,
> > but I think I can speak about DL_POLY as a DL veteran; I packaged it as
> > "dl_poly" and wouldn't expect people to call it "dl-poly"
> (outside
> > Debian) or "dlpoly".  The majority don't have underscores as part of
> > their proper name, but the guidelines cover ones that do.
>
>
>  Who are most people? 
Users of the software, for whom I'm packaging stuff.  I get the
impression some people don't think they're very relevant, and I
increasingly come across things which make life hard supporting them.

>  Nobody is changing the name of the software. 
As far as a user is concerned, you are.

>  That is entirely under the control of upstream. 
Who I think deserve respect for their chosen names as far as
possible/reasonable, even if they're not (former) colleagues.

>  We're discussing how it is represented in
>  the Fedora repository.
>  That is the purview of the Fedora project, not upstream. 
And clearly there isn't agreement in Fedora, even on what the guidelines
actually say, which was my point.

[Gerald B. Cox]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 8:38 AM, Dave Love <d.love(a)liverpool.ac.uk&gt; wrote:

>  > Who are most people?
>
>  Users of the software, for whom I'm packaging stuff.  I get the
>  impression some people don't think they're very relevant, and I
>  increasingly come across things which make life hard supporting them.
>
>  > Nobody is changing the name of the software.
>
>  As far as a user is concerned, you are.
>
>  > That is entirely under the control of upstream.
>
>  Who I think deserve respect for their chosen names as far as
>  possible/reasonable, even if they're not (former) colleagues.
>
>  > We're discussing how it is represented in
>  > the Fedora repository.
>  > That is the purview of the Fedora project, not upstream.
>
>  And clearly there isn't agreement in Fedora, even on what the guidelines
>  actually say, which was my point.
>  
This conversation has become circular.  You asked for clarification.  I
gave it.